Why did God create dinosaurs

[Philipp]

Actually that’s not a dinosaur. The Kolbe Center is a weird place – the latest cutting-edge news item is from September 2007! I guess not much happens around there.

THE DOHENY EXPEDITION OF 1925. Please explain why that depiction is not that of a dinosaur. The authors think that it best represented a diplodocus dinosaur. Maybe you think it was a giraffe. There were depictions of other known animals perhaps even a mammoth on the same canyon wall but was thought not to have been made by the same artist, or so thought the researchers who studied the many depictions. They lost one of their expedition members in a deadly accident so the Doheny expedition on 1925 on donkeys etc was as treacherous as those in Africa but without having to face the possibility AK-47’s. Plus the transportation in the year 2000 a was bit more comfortable.

EXCAVATING DINOSAUR AND HUMAN FOOTPRINTS [FOSSIL ICHNITES]: When excavating for dinosaur and fossil human footprints together along the Paluxy River Cretaceous ledges in Texas www.creationevidence.org we 20 to 30 volunteers would be on our knees working side by side scraping away the clay from the underlying stratum that contained the fossil footprints preserved in the limestone. The very top cretaceous limestone stratum contained a trail of five dinosaur footprints but NO human ones. It was the second strata that contained the mingling of fossil human and dinosaur “ichnites” together. So both teams the Paluxy and the African one seem to be performing the correct field requirements.

QUESTIONS FOR THE SAINT: Have the researchers in Africa carefully collected wood fragments, shells, and other fossils from the sandy soil for C-14 dating as our Paluxy teams are taught to do as they dig through the three inches of clay??? Since your team was asked to review the African research presentation for NOVA and the African team claim that they perform the search very carefully perhaps you could challenge them to C-14 date such fossils? What do you say? Are you guys up to challenging the African team?? (2) Team Leaders have been trying to get the landowners to agree to go down to the next strata for five years with no success yet. If we are finally successful would you send members of your team to participate in such a joint excavation? Meanwhile send a team member of your group to study the cast of the 10 or so fossil human footprints taken from the bottom of the river in 1999 at the Glendive MT Dinosaur and Fossil Museum
you try and trash the excellent reseach along the Paluxy

KOLBE CENTER: Since you don’t like the Kolbe Center’s web site while it is undergoing reconstruction maybe you could go to dinosaursandman.com/ and view the complete article on the Doheny expedition of 1924. There are also fascinating depictions of dinosaurs as found by archaeologists on this web site from Syria to Cambodia to Peru if you but take a few minutes

ARDI: How do you know the artistic drawing in the Smithsonian Magazine on page 35 is a true representation of Ardi?

ARDI’S AGE: How did they come up with the absolute age of of 4.4-million year for “Ardi’s age?” as well as the ages for the other African critters. See Photo of diggers. [caption: And they take care with the remains (below: adding glue-like preservative to a 4.4 million year old A. ramidu tibis)]. I would expect to at least see a Table of data in this article that describes in layman terms the process. Maybe I missed it in the article but all I saw was the chart of our alleged hominid ancestors on page 38 with their alleged ages.

 

[StAnastasia]

Dogs and cats may not be able to do philosophy, but they are every bit as good at being alive as you and me! That makes them valuable to GOD.
I’d say that it’s an open question whether eternal life is available to them, seeing as CHRIST said zero about that anyhow! ICXC NIKA!

GEddie, you make an excellent point. God cares for every sparrow (Mt. 10:29). Just how non-human animals will participate in the eternal kingdom is an open question for theological reflection, one that I and other theologians do not dismiss lightly.

When God became incarnate, God assumed not only the full human nature, but the human genome (with its deep history), the atoms that had been the flesh of dinosaurs, and indeed, even the quarks of the primordial flaring forth from the Big Bang. The sacramental principle underlying Christianity is that God sees the universe as good and worth participating in!

StAnastasia

 

[StAnastasia]

Are you making up that you work every day with all those you mention? You have asked me (twice so far I think) if I’m making up what I say, so it’s just fair that I ask you the same.

A fair question – we are an interdisciplinary department. The man whose office is to the right of me is a geologist. Behind me and down the hall are the offices of two evolutionary biologists and a consulting geneticist. Downstairs are an astronomer, a biochemist, and a physical anthropologist. I am in daily email contact with numerous other scientists in various parts of the world, with whom I consult on projects ranging from education to writing.

You mention Piltdown Man – I think he now works for the Kolbe Center.

 

[grannymh]

Materialism is no “wronger” than soulism, the idea that we are spirits or souls and that’s all that matters. We are not spirits, nor meant to be (thank GOD!!). We are alive. God likes to have beings around HIM that are alive, that’s why we can move around and breathe!

Dogs and cats may not be able to do philosophy, but they are every bit as good at being alive as you and me! That makes them valuable to GOD.

I’d say that it’s an open question whether eternal life is available to them, seeing as CHRIST said zero about that anyhow!

ICXC NIKA!

God created humans to be different from dinosaurs in that our purpose is to share in the spiritual life of God here on earth according to the Catholic teaching regarding our soul. This is the basis for the seven Sacraments of the Catholic Church.

The philosophy of materialism, which denies the spiritual, is o.k. for dinosaurs, dogs, and cats, but it is not o.k. for human nature. Human nature is spirit and matter, rational and corporeal, soul and body in an unique unification that only exists in the human species.

Yes, there are live dogs and cats and there are live human beings. Please, do not assume that because there is life that the nature of the human person is the same as a dog or a cat or a plant. Yes, live dogs, cats and plants are valuable to their Creator but they are not identical to human nature.

Regarding the wildest statement ever “I’d say that it’s an open question whether eternal life is available to them,[dogs and cats] seeing as CHRIST said zero about that anyhow!” – I don’t know whether to laugh or cry when the obvious teachings of Jesus Christ appear to be ignored.

Blessings,
granny

These two websites contain TV ads about Catholicism. The first is from one of the Dioceses which is using them. The second is general information.

 

[StAnastasia]

OMGosh…we need you on the “are there animals in heaven” thread. I’ve tossed in the towel and unsubscribed.

Gee – why? We need good thinkers and discussers on important threads!

 

[StAnastasia]

KOLBE CENTER: Since you don’t like the Kolbe Center’s web site while it is undergoing reconstruction maybe you could go to dinosaursandman.com/ and view the complete article on the Doheny expedition of 1924. There are also fascinating depictions of dinosaurs as found by archaeologists on this web site from Syria to Cambodia to Peru if you but take a few minutes

Philipp, I am a theologian, not a scientist, so I have no funds to mount paleontological expeditions. I have to trust the scientists on this one.

The sciences are quite lively fields, with a lot of fresh research being done, and with many young scholars trying to make a name for themselves. I’m sure that if there is anything to the Doheny expedition or the Paluxy footprints the scientific world would have been all over it. As far as I know these things have been debunked as scientific nonsense. Moreover, there would be a Nobel prize waiting for anyone who conclusively disproved the theory of evolution. The fat that no one has stepped forward to do this since 1859 suggests it is a more resilient theory than you suppose.

However, if you regard these as important discoveries that the world should know about, I encourage you to seek funding for conferences and grants for expeditions. don’t hide your light under the bushels of obscure Internet fora. See what the National Academy of Science might offer you in the way of funding. I was concerned when I visited the Kolbe Center website and saw that nothing much has been deemed worth reporting on since 2007. Have they given up the fight against evolution? If they want to raise their profile with scientists they ought at least to post current research on the website.

StAnastasia

 

[StAnastasia]

Regarding the wildest statement ever “I’d say that it’s an open question whether eternal life is available to them,[dogs and cats] seeing as CHRIST said zero about that anyhow!” – I don’t know whether to laugh or cry when the obvious teachings of Jesus Christ appear to be ignored.

Grannymh, whether to laugh or cry (or both) is your choice. Remember Jesus and the sparrows!

 

[spn82756]

God created humans to be different from dinosaurs in that our purpose is to share in the spiritual life of God here on earth according to the Catholic teaching regarding our soul. This is the basis for the seven Sacraments of the Catholic Church.

The philosophy of materialism, which denies the spiritual, is o.k. for dinosaurs, dogs, and cats, but it is not o.k. for human nature. Human nature is spirit and matter, rational and corporeal, soul and body in an unique unification that only exists in the human species.

Yes, there are live dogs and cats and there are live human beings. Please, do not assume that because there is life that the nature of the human person is the same as a dog or a cat or a plant. Yes, live dogs, cats and plants are valuable to their Creator but they are not identical to human nature.

Regarding the wildest statement ever “I’d say that it’s an open question whether eternal life is available to them,[dogs and cats] seeing as CHRIST said zero about that anyhow!” – I don’t know whether to laugh or cry when the obvious teachings of Jesus Christ appear to be ignored.

Blessings,
granny

These two websites contain TV ads about Catholicism. The first is from one of the Dioceses which is using them. The second is general information.

And those obvious teachings are. I’m hoping that you will agree with the CAF apologists…seeing as they have no conclusive answer. We don’t want gnosticism here.

 

[grannymh]

Grannymh, whether to laugh or cry (or both) is your choice. Remember Jesus and the sparrows!

Yes, the dear sparrows. Which sparrow committed the original sin? Or was it one of the cute dinosaurs? When God created sparrows, what kind of nature did He give them? Have you communicated with the sparrows which are living today?

God created humans as an unique unification of sprit/matter, rational/corporeal, soul and body so that we can share in the spiritual life of God here on earth. The is the basis for the seven Sacraments of the Catholic Church. I believe that Jesus, as True God, knew the difference between sparrows and humans.

Blessings,
granny

Isaiah 55

 

[spn82756]

Yes, the dear sparrows. Which sparrow committed the original sin? Or was it one of the cute dinosaurs? When God created sparrows, what kind of nature did He give them? Have you communicated with the sparrows which are living today?

God created humans as an unique unification of sprit/matter, rational/corporeal, soul and body so that we can share in the spiritual life of God here on earth. The is the basis for the seven Sacraments of the Catholic Church. I believe that Jesus, as True God, knew the difference between sparrows and humans.

Blessings,
granny
Isaiah 55

But there are animals in heaven. Less you believe that He is limited by a box we put Him in. At least that what Michelle Arnold alluded to in her answer to the question.

Just so you’ll know…my dogs are Heidi…Luke and Sadie. They’re friendly…but just thought you might want to know their names when you meet them in heaven. GSD’s are great.

 

[grannymh]

But there are animals in heaven. Less you believe that He is limited by a box we put Him in. At least that what Michelle Arnold alluded to in her answer to the question.

Just so you’ll know…my dogs are Heidi…Luke and Sadie. They’re friendly…but just thought you might want to know their names when you meet them in heaven. GSD’s are great.

Now I know why God created dinosaurs.

They are smarter about their own nature than some of the descendents of Adam.

 

[StAnastasia]

Now I know why God created dinosaurs. They are smarter about their own nature than some of the descendents of Adam.

Granny, why do you hate animals so much? Why do you regard God as so niggardly of grace that animals would be excluded from divine love in eternity?

 

[spn82756]

I still want my velociraptor back!!! I’m not kidding. I miss her!

 

[StAnastasia]

But there are animals in heaven. Less you believe that He is limited by a box we put Him in. At least that what Michelle Arnold alluded to in her answer to the question.

Just so you’ll know…my dogs are Heidi…Luke and Sadie. They’re friendly…but just thought you might want to know their names when you meet them in heaven. GSD’s are great.

SPN, when our cat Minou was hit by a car last year, my nine year old was inconsolable. But then he told me that she was a good cat, so he know he would cuddle with her again in heaven.

 

[spn82756]

Granny, why do you hate animals so much? Why do you regard God as so niggardly of grace that animals would be excluded from divine love in eternity?

Because some people have taken us to be sooooooooooooooooooooooo special that God would create things other than us that he would just throw away.

Now we are special…immortal souls that are guaranteed eternal life or death…but the people that use the Bible to exclude the rest of God’s creation seem to forget that the Bible is meant as an instruction book for PEOPLE. God loves His creation and is free to handle it as He feels when it reaches it’s mortal life.

Nowhere does the Bible say that animals and plants are not to be seen in heaven. Sometimes pride gets in the way of realizing that God can do as he pleases.

Gotta run…I hear a sparrow calling.

 

[spn82756]

SPN, when our cat Minou was hit by a car last year, my nine year old was inconsolable. But then he told me that she was a good cat, so he know he would cuddle with her again in heaven.

The heart of children. I believe that Jesus put a lot of emphasis on that!

 

[StAnastasia]

I still want my velociraptor back!!! I’m not kidding. I miss her!

Steve, that leads to an interesting question: will there be velociraptors in heaven? We tend to forget that what we see around us today is only the briefest of snapshots of evolutionary history on earth. Biologists estimate that 99.9% of all species that ever lived have gone extinct. Is God’s overflowing generosity great enough to confer eternal enjoyment of the beatific vision of all of life? Or only on some of it? Even if – God forbid – only humans are permitted this privilege, at what point in the 5 million years of hominid evolution does the privilege kick in? What generation of hominids will enjoy eternity, know that their parents do not enjoy it?

StAnastasia

 

[spn82756]

Steve, that leads to an interesting question: will there be velociraptors in heaven? We tend to forget that what we see around us today is only the briefest of snapshots of evolutionary history on earth. Biologists estimate that 99.9% of all species that ever lived have gone extinct. Is God’s overflowing generosity great enough to confer eternal enjoyment of the beatific vision of all of life? Or only on some of it? Even if – God forbid – only humans are permitted this privilege, at what point in the 5 million years of hominid evolution does the privilege kick in? What generation of hominids will enjoy eternity, know that their parents do not enjoy it?

StAnastasia

I think that that is something that only God knows. But we do know that there is no violence in heaven. So if there are dinos in heaven (which there could well be) they’re not going to try to eat us. But…as you being a theologian and scientist…I’m interested on your take.

But I want my velociraptor back…do you want me to call the local sheriff???

 

[Philipp]

Hugh Miller, what is your evidence to support the claim that this depicts a dinosaur? How do we know what the Anasazi meant by this petroglyph? The scientific consensus is that dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago, long before humans had evolved and long before the Anasazi ever existed.

Apparently you thrive on concensus and ignore the data. Uhm! I didn’t know that consensus made good science. Good scientists I’ve been taught always check the anomalies to see if they are correct and to see if they will lead to new knowledge and a new paradigm. They do experiments and observe. So what are the anomalies that challenge the “bureau of concensus”?

(1) fossil human footprints with dinosaurs, (2) 1000’s of dinosaur depictions world wide similar to the drawings of artists who follow modern paleontologists around making drawings of what dinosaurs may have looked like with a little skin and color. (3) C-14 dating of dinosaur bone collagen and calcium carbonate fraction of bone bioapatite
(4) sedimentology field, lab and flume studies that have torn asunder the 19th century Darwinian/Lyellian assumptions of how sediments form (5) Documentataion of actual catastrophism world-wide and not uniformitarianistic assumptions for the formation of the geologic column and (6) lab experiments that show that long age radiodecay systems for chronologic studies are useless.

Instead the “concensus bureau” of the scientific communty called Academia simply sit at their computers and try and silence the dissenters, call them creationists ID’ers and/or Christian fundamentalists BUT never spend a dollar to arrange a team to check on the validity of the anomalous data. Perhaps they are afraid what they might find when they think outsie the Darwinian box.

As for why God created other things St. Thomas simply wrote: —“other things were made for man’s sake.” so I include dinosaurs in that statement for many realistic and specific reasons as indicated above for example

 

[StAnastasia]

I think that that is something that only God knows. But we do know that there is no violence in heaven. So if there are dinos in heaven (which there could well be) they’re not going to try to eat us. But…as you being a theologian and scientist…I’m interested on your take.

But I want my velociraptor back…do you want me to call the local sheriff???

Steve, excellent question, addressed in part by Robert John Russell in "The transfiguration of the Cosmos: a Fresh Exploration of the Symbol of the Cosmic Christ " chapter nine in Cosmology: From Alpha to Omega 92008).

A vegetarian velociraptor would not be what it is according to a nature. But neither would a human that ate no food be a human. And if God converts all guts to vegetarian gust, what about the poor plants in heaven? Perhaps the problem is that we are conceiving of eternity as merely an extrapolation of temporality for a very long time.

Perhaps Erazim Kohac’s insight is helpful, that humans stand at the intersection of time and eternity, the Incarnation. Perhaps the beatific vision is such that all creatures are transfigured by the incarnate Christ in such a way that their being is fulfilled in eternity, which stands outside of time. Humans and velociraptors and your dogs and my cat and salmon and mosquitoes will “behold” the vision of God most appropriate to their cognitive state.

StAnastasia