Why did God create me if he knew I would spend an eternity in hell?

[benedictus2]

That is the cruical question. God’s love is agape, not some emotion. Agape is acting in someone’s best interest. To have “me” created, while knowing that my ultimate destination is eternal suffering and torment, is NOT in my best interest. This contradiction cannot be resolved.

Agape is actually willing the good of the other. Creation is intrinsically good. Every grace is given to give a yes to God. That, is willing the good of the other. Christ dying is willing the good of the other.

 

[Robert_Sock]

According to Jews in some Jewish circles (Chabad), everyone in hell will eventually be saved. This is similar to the Jewish notion that the Fall will enable us to achieve an end-state of existence greater than Adam and Eve not having sinned.

 

[Spock]

Agape is actually willing the good of the other.

Not true. If I simply “desire, want, wish, will” for you the best, but do not DO anything for you, it is an empty wish. Agape is defined as an ACT of will, an act which will be to benefit of the other. And it is not in my best interest to be created just so that I will be tortured forever.

 

[Ignatius]

Is one life created to suffer in hell for eternity worth thousands of descendants? May we do evil that good may come?

Your life wasn’t created to suffer in hell, it was created to be joyfully with God forever. But He gives you free will and will not force you to. If you choose to reject Him, He will let you, but He will still bring some good out of it, perhaps for example by blessing your descendents. But that is only one example, there are many.

 

[Lookup]

I think an important thing to remember is that God does not work in time like we do. To us a year ago is the past and tomorrow is the future. From what I’ve gathered, it’s understood by many theologians that to God everything is present… Meaning to Him “now” is the crucifixion, ‘now’ it is also your third birthday, as well as this moment right now, and something happening 100 years in the future. Everything is the present to God.

Understanding that, helps one to understand that God doesn’t just look at anyone’s life when he creates them knowing that they are destined for hell and say “oh well” and plop them on the earth anyway. He is with each and every one of us at every moment of our lives waiting for us to conform our will to His. God cannot see into the future because to God there is no future, only now.

Hope this helps at least a little

 

[vz71]

Lets say that I reject God and choose to spend an eternity in hell. He knew I would make this choice, and yet he still made me.

If he loved me so much, why would he make me knowing that I would spend an eternity away from him?

Why would God give you the choice knowing you would choose badly?

I have seen this question over and over, and I see people answer it routinely.

What I never see is the answer accepted. Or even argued.
It is as though the people that ask this question do not want an answer, just an argument to justify themselves.

The simple fact is that we are provided the choice to be with God or not.
Should we choose not, it is an act of love that God respects the choice.
Will we like the choice? Probably not. But could we love a God that does not respect our choice?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I didn’t desire to be created. God created me, and he knew I would go to hell. Free will aside. I Understand free will. I get to choose, but the fact is, God knows the outcome. He knows the path that my free will takes me, so why create something if you know it will fail?

One possible answer is that there is something that is more important than the failure.

You seem to think that God is up there saying, “OK, here is Peter. I will create him to be born on June 2, 1945. He will sin on days x, x, x, and x, and repent on days y, y, and y. He will die on February 4, 2030 having committed 142,996,307 venial sins, 5015 mortal sins, of which 4978 are repented. Gee, that was one of my lesser efforts. Too bad for Peter.”

It doesn’t happen that way though.

You do realize that you’re trying to limit God by saying that unless He created beings who were going to wind up in heaven, that He ‘shouldn’t have created the others at all’. . .But you don’t know ‘the whole story’. God does. There must be a very important reason for Him to create beings He loves knowing that some MAY end up in hell (not because God ‘sent them there’ but because they CHOSE to be there).

Nobody goes to hell, wailing and screaming that they’re SORRY. They wail and scream all right, but their wails and screams are all, “I don’t care! I hate God! I will never repent!” You can feel sorrow for beings who rejected God without feeling like it wasn’t FAIR.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Not true. If I simply “desire, want, wish, will” for you the best, but do not DO anything for you, it is an empty wish. Agape is defined as an ACT of will, an act which will be to benefit of the other. And it is not in my best interest to be created just so that I will be tortured forever.

But Spock, you’re assuming that the torture is something you don’t choose.

If you are insistant that you want that torture more than you want heaven, then you’ll receive it. Because you choose it so it is in YOUR best interest.

Because if you want it that much, you do not, and never will, want heaven . .AND your rejection would not only make you ‘miserable’ in heaven as you kept on screaming your hatred and disgust, it would also make those around you, instead of being free to embrace their heaven, have to suffer through you ‘hating’ it.

C.S. Lewis refers to this as the tyranny of evil, which doesn’t want good itself and wishes to deprive everybody else of the good on the grounds that if IT is feeling bad, everybody else should feel bad and nobody should have the chance to feel good because IT is feeling bad. That is not fairness.

 

[Spock]

But Spock, you’re assuming that the torture is something you don’t choose.

Of course I am “assuming” that. To be more precise I know that I do not want to be tortured. I do not “crave” pain or misery.

If you are insistant that you want that torture more than you want heaven, then you’ll receive it. Because you choose it so it is in YOUR best interest.

Yes, if I would want torture, pain and misery, then it would be in my best interest to grant my wish. The trouble is that there is no such person. No one is given a sample of heaven and a sample of hell, and then asked: “which one would you prefer?”.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Of course I am “assuming” that. To be more precise I know that I do not want to be tortured. I do not “crave” pain or misery.

Yes, if I would want torture, pain and misery, then it would be in my best interest to grant my wish. The trouble is that there is no such person. No one is given a sample of heaven and a sample of hell, and then asked: “which one would you prefer?”.

Are you SURE? You see, heaven is being with God, and hell is being apart from Him.

Every day, Spock, you are given samples of a bit of heaven and a bit of hell and asked which you would prefer, and every day you choose one or the other.

You choose heaven when you choose to follow God, who is all good. You choose hell when you reject Him. Simple as that.

Heaven and hell aren’t two completely unknown things.

 

[Spock]

Are you SURE? You see, heaven is being with God, and hell is being apart from Him.

Then this existence is hell. I don’t experience God here and now at all. And this existence is not eternal torture (thank God? ).

Every day, Spock, you are given samples of a bit of heaven and a bit of hell and asked which you would prefer, and every day you choose one or the other.

I cannot see that.

You choose heaven when you choose to follow God, who is all good. You choose hell when you reject Him. Simple as that.

Sorry, I neither follow nor reject God. I live my life according to the rules I chose to follow: the two versions of the golden rule.

Heaven and hell aren’t two completely unknown things.

They are for me.

I suspect that your post was to be taken poetically and not literally. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

 

[FrancisD]

**To OP: great question! I’m afraid all the answers seem inadequate or incomplete until now. Many of the answers seem to be going to the right direction but not deep enough. I also think OP had already entertained answers such as “because God gave us free will” or “it’s not up to God whether or not we choose to sin” thus those answers should be supplemented by deeper insight.

What I am really interested in is the concept of ‘Hell’. Hopefully when we can agree on what Hell is and the characteristics of the suffering one endures in hell, we can answer the OP.

Thank you!

**

 

[Blinky]

Lets say that I reject God and choose to spend an eternity in hell. He knew I would make this choice, and yet he still made me.

If he loved me so much, why would he make me knowing that I would spend an eternity away from him?

Articles on omniscience, predestination, or this exact topic would be loverly.

God is pro-life, anti-abortion, and anti-euthanasia.

 

[benedictus2]

**To OP: great question! I’m afraid all the answers seem inadequate or incomplete until now. Many of the answers seem to be going to the right direction but not deep enough. I also think OP had already entertained answers such as “because God gave us free will” or “it’s not up to God whether or not we choose to sin” thus those answers should be supplemented by deeper insight.

What I am really interested in is the concept of ‘Hell’. Hopefully when we can agree on what Hell is and the characteristics of the suffering one endures in hell, we can answer the OP.

Thank you!

**

I think this might help.

youtube.com/watch?v=x8zhnooySk4

I believe, in hell you still choose hell. It is not like you are in hell but you want to be in heaven.

That which makes the saints rejoice is the very same thing that makes one in hell miserable except that he can’t even desire an out.

 

[vz71]

Then this existence is hell. I don’t experience God here and now at all. And this existence is not eternal torture (thank God? ).

It is a constant act of will on the part of God that creation remains here.

You may claim to not perceive God, but that does not negate the fact.

People also do not perceive moving through the solar system, yet we all are.
And no amount of denial will change the fact.

 

[Spock]

It is a constant act of will on the part of God that creation remains here.
You may claim to not perceive God, but that does not negate the fact.

I am aware of this teaching, but I see no reason to accept it. It cannot be observed nor measured. You call it a “fact”, I call it an unsupported hypothesis.

People also do not perceive moving through the solar system, yet we all are.
And no amount of denial will change the fact.

The movement through the Solar System can be observed and measured. This movement is really a fact, not just a hypothesis.

But these are all unimportant. The point is we cannot and do not experience God, and therefore, for all practical purposes we are separated from God, and Tantum ergo defined “hell” as the separation from God.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I am aware of this teaching, but I see no reason to accept it. It cannot be observed nor measured. You call it a “fact”, I call it an unsupported hypothesis.

The movement through the Solar System can be observed and measured. This movement is really a fact, not just a hypothesis.

But these are all unimportant. The point is we cannot and do not experience God, and therefore, for all practical purposes we are separated from God, and Tantum ergo defined “hell” as the separation from God.

Tantum wishes to qualify that Hell is ETERNAL separation from God. But if we reject God by sinning mortally, we have put ourselves on the ‘road’ to that eternal separation unless we repent.

 

[Spock]

Tantum wishes to qualify that Hell is ETERNAL separation from God.

Fine. But “eternal” separation is nothing else but “infinitely many” small separations. Are we “connected to God”, now, in this existence? Do we experience God’s love in this existence? (Look at the word: “experience”, please.) I don’t think we are. We cannot experience the infinite bliss we are supposed to feel when we shall be with God. So is this existence some kind of “mini-hell”?

But if we reject God by sinning mortally, we have put ourselves on the ‘road’ to that eternal separation unless we repent.

Unfortunately that is much too vague. As I said before, I do not “reject” God, by stating that I wish to be separated from God. That is what “rejection” means, in my vocabulary. I do not even accept the concept of “sin”, much less the concept of “mortal sin”. God did not come to us and declare in precise and unambiguous terms what those “mortal sins” might be. To the best of knowledge, the Catholic Church never listed a definitive, infallible enumeration of the “mortal sins”. So I am in the dark about what should I do and what should I avoid to qualify to enter into heaven. And since there is nothing more important than this, I don’t think it is unreasonable to “demand” that such a list be declared for our edification.

 

[vz71]

I am aware of this teaching, but I see no reason to accept it. It cannot be observed nor measured. You call it a “fact”, I call it an unsupported hypothesis.

Within the confines of the Catholic Answers forum, the fact of God is fact.
If you wish to claim otherwise, the burden of proof would be upon you.

We are faced with the ultimate decision, where we will spend eternity.
And God loves us enough to allow us to spend eternity apart from him.

Of course, this would be torture, but how much more torture would it be eternally having ones will denied and contradicted?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Fine. But “eternal” separation is nothing else but “infinitely many” small separations. Are we “connected to God”, now, in this existence? Do we experience God’s love in this existence? (Look at the word: “experience”, please.) I don’t think we are. We cannot experience the infinite bliss we are supposed to feel when we shall be with God. So is this existence some kind of “mini-hell”? No, I believe you misunderstand what eternity is. We exist in time. Eternity is not 'infinitely many units of time". Eternity is outside of time and more like an endless ‘now’.

And yes, we are connected to God in this existence. For example, this morning I received into my own living body the eternal body and blood, Soul and Divinity, of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. That is some connection. And as for experiencing love, well, I have my family and my friends, my cat, all of whom were created by God, who love me and who I love, and they are all part of God, and we experience love for each other and love for Him, through Him, with Him, and in Him.

We were created for God and our hearts are restless until we are in Him. . .I think that was a quote from St. Augustine and it’s true.

Unfortunately that is much too vague. As I said before, I do not “reject” God, by stating that I wish to be separated from God. That is what “rejection” means, in my vocabulary. I do not even accept the concept of “sin”, much less the concept of “mortal sin”. God did not come to us and declare in precise and unambiguous terms what those “mortal sins” might be. To the best of knowledge, the Catholic Church never listed a definitive, infallible enumeration of the “mortal sins”. So I am in the dark about what should I do and what should I avoid to qualify to enter into heaven. And since there is nothing more important than this, I don’t think it is unreasonable to “demand” that such a list be declared for our edification.

You aren’t in the dark at all, really. And you don’t need a ‘list’ because let’s face it, people today can ‘read’ a nice stark "thou shalt not kill’ and unblinkingly go out and abort their child because, "it isn’t REALLY killing’. “It’s not REALLY a child.” “It’s not like I enjoy it but I’m being FORCED into it.” So having a list like the 10 commandments doesn’t really stop people who are determined to ‘read’ an exception to the rules for them. Heck, until about 500 years ago, Spock, most Western people couldn’t ‘read’ at all. What would be the point of a list? Reading is a great thing – I love it myself – but it is not the sole or only communication we have. And look, for example, at things like Nook and Kindle etc. 500 years ago, books were just moving from big vellum things to paper. . .now they’re moving from paper to ‘computerized’. . .look at Twitter and see how English is whittled down from Shakespeare’s deathless prose to '2BRnt2B thtzthe ?

But I digress. . .we have Scripture, Spock, which is God’s revealed written word. We have the Church which is guided by God to help us out. We have preachers and teachers who have studied Scripture and Sacred Tradition and give guidance.

Of course, if you come into the whole thing with “I WILL NOT accept”, that’s not really very open-minded, and I’ve found that you have to be somewhat open-minded to really learn. I mean, if you were one of the people who 108 years ago at Kill Devil Hills was scoffing around saying, “there is no WAY a person could fly, just no way”, well, you wouldn’t have tried to build a flying machine if you were so closed minded to insist there was no way a person could fly, right?