Why did god design us so badly?

[Abbadon]

Now before i begin this thread i can’t promise that i will be responding to everything, just the interesting ones. I’m sorry i just don’t have enough time.

I had asked previously what other evidence there was for the existence of god? I read some links and i still don’t see it i see nature and natural answers but no real need for a higher power. (Let alone the question of which higher power, if i did see a higher power, all these arguments no more support the monothiestic god than it does the other creator god’s Odin, Ra’s father and mother (sky and earth can’t remeber the names) or say the rainbow serpent…)

But there is another problem with the argument from design. As a designer i could have designed at least humanity alot better. DNA is a rather poor replicator, bad mutations could be removed. Regeneration of cells could have been extended to at least 1000 years (a species that lives more makes more decisions based on the long run, and would be wiser). I would have made my children UV resistant, Perpahs even the ability to change the spectram of radiation visible. Harder skin so on so forth. Overall alot better design…

There would and still could be suffering both physical and emotional pain, so god not fear his creations not suffering,

I have heard the reply we are a fallen perfection. Just how far did we fall?

Anyway the point is. IF this creation is designed, it is a poor design and would in no way win a design award in a relative field of being creation. I argue that I given the resources and budget of a god could do a much better job.

Now i would love to hear your thoughts…

 

[roanoker]

A refrain from the 60’s comes to mind: “God don’t make no junk!” Genesis says we are made in his image, and also says He was pleased with what he had wrought. Good enough for me…Roanoker

 

[Abbadon]

A refrain from the 60’s comes to mind: “God don’t make no junk!” Genesis says we are made in his image, and also says He was pleased with what he had wrought. Good enough for me…Roanoker

All i can say to that is wow i wish god was judging my designs then i might not just come runner up…

 

[scylla]

Hmm, it seems to me that human design is quite elegant. Our bodies if respected and taken care of properly usually last on average quite a long time. What is the average life expectancy in the United States, even with all the horrible stuff we eat and crummy lifestyles we lead?

Our bodies are also made to deteriorate as this is not heaven. Since this is not heaven we do get hurt, we have disease and we break down.

Seeing how good shape most of us are even when most of us don’t take care of ourselves as we should, I would say we are designed pretty elegantly.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Abbadon]

Hmm, it seems to me that human design is quite elegant. Our bodies if respected and taken care of properly usually last on average quite a long time. What is the average life expectancy in the United States, even with all the horrible stuff we eat and crummy lifestyles we lead?

Our bodies are also made to deteriorate as this is not heaven. Since this is not heaven we do get hurt, we have disease and we break down.

Seeing how good shape most of us are even when most of us don’t take care of ourselves as we should, I would say we are designed pretty elegantly.

God Bless
Scylla

Oh please our livers and kidney’s fail so easily, a flaw in our genetic replication creates cancer, exposure to to much UV causes skin cancer…

Am i the only person who sees a ridiculous amount of design improvements that could be made to a human.

 

[Abbadon]

Hmm, it seems to me that human design is quite elegant. Our bodies if respected and taken care of properly usually last on average quite a long time. What is the average life expectancy in the United States, even with all the horrible stuff we eat and crummy lifestyles we lead?

Our bodies are also made to deteriorate as this is not heaven. Since this is not heaven we do get hurt, we have disease and we break down.

Seeing how good shape most of us are even when most of us don’t take care of ourselves as we should, I would say we are designed pretty elegantly.

God Bless
Scylla

Oh please our livers and kidney’s fail so easily, a flaw in our genetic replication creates cancer, exposure to to much UV causes skin cancer… We can’t even let lungs into our smoke…

Am i the only person who sees a ridiculous amount of design improvements that could be made to a human.

 

[BlaineTog]

If people were “better” made, they might go around thinking they need God even less than they currently think they do, and that would be really, really stupid of them.

 

[scylla]

Oh please our livers and kidney’s fail so easily, a flaw in our genetic replication creates cancer, exposure to to much UV causes skin cancer… We can’t even let lungs into our smoke…

Am i the only person who sees a ridiculous amount of design improvements that could be made to a human.

Hmm, so we have a life expectancy of more than 70 years in the United States, if our livers and kidneys fail so easily then why do most of us live such a long time. Heck 40 years is a long time to live and enjoy life, it is just that most of us waste it.

Why would anyone want to let smoke in our lungs. Thats crazy, it’s smoke, it smells bad and makes you cough. As any kid they know it is crazy, it is only when we get older do we get dumb enough to want to do things like breath smoke.

I am pretty darn happy with my body, I am pretty lazy but I still am in pretty good shape. It seems that sometimes it is an unfortunate chance that there is a problem with ones body or a prolonged amount of neglect.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Abbadon]

Hmm, so we have a life expectancy of more than 70 years in the United States, if our livers and kidneys fail so easily then why do most of us live such a long time. Heck 40 years is a long time to live and enjoy life, it is just that most of us waste it.

Why would anyone want to let smoke in our lungs. Thats crazy, it’s smoke, it smells bad and makes you cough. As any kid they know it is crazy, it is only when we get older do we get dumb enough to want to do things like breath smoke.

I am pretty darn happy with my body, I am pretty lazy but I still am in pretty good shape. It seems that sometimes it is an unfortunate chance that there is a problem with ones body or a prolonged amount of neglect.

God Bless
Scylla

That sort of design you speak of is merely mediocre. I’m sure your contempt with mediocre design but I am not. When I design something I attempt to do the best design I possibly can, then I have my freinds and critics imporove said design.

How can a perfect creator creator such a mediocre creation. Sure its “elegant” it’s “good enough” (Purely in nature without technology and science, say for example in the middle ages average life expectancies are alot less).

Everyone seems to be missing the point…

It’s not about your bodies run okay, of course they run okay.

What I’m tlaking about is the “design” aspect of it.

Fine perhaps it;s not that poor a desing (I still think it is but i will concede that many people like the biology of humanity) but it is still far from perfect… What a shoddy creation…

Can you get the point?

 

[hosemonkey]

That sort of design you speak of is merely mediocre. I’m sure your contempt with mediocre design but I am not. When I design something I attempt to do the best design I possibly can, then I have my freinds and critics imporove said design.

How can a perfect creator creator such a mediocre creation. Sure its “elegant” it’s “good enough” (Purely in nature without technology and science, say for example in the middle ages average life expectancies are alot less).

Everyone seems to be missing the point…

It’s not about your bodies run okay, of course they run okay.

What I’m tlaking about is the “design” aspect of it.

Fine perhaps it;s not that poor a desing (I still think it is but i will concede that many people like the biology of humanity) but it is still far from perfect… What a shoddy creation…

Can you get the point?

My my, you are 20 whole years old and you are second-guessing God. Your arrogance and callowness are staggering. When you get 50 or so years of living under your belt, come back and tell us how badly we are designed.

 

[scylla]

Yes, I get the point, but you are looking at fallen human bodies trying to see them how you would make them perfect.

Take away disease, deterioration and mortality and you have what you are looking for. But that will only be achieved after the resurrection. So of course it is easy to criticize our design because we don’t work perfectly.

Heck even little kids imagine better ways to be designed since they see a problem with our physical limitations, they want to be invincible, fly and do even more than we can normally do.

Enjoy what you have, it is pretty darn nice. It is much better than less than what you are.

We can’t even design a computer that can respond to each other like we are currently doing. Now make one that works as efficiently that can appreciate music, a good meal, surf the web and complain about not being made better.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Abbadon]

My my, you are 20 whole years old and you are second-guessing God. Your arrogance and callowness are staggering. When you get 50 or so years of living under your belt, come back and tell us how badly we are designed.

What does age have to do with cricquing design? I can make an equally informed decision just as you can. Infact possibly a better one as in my past 20 years more information has been available to my supple young mind that was in 1970…

Just as my little brother when he is around 16 can make just as an informed descion.

You are beign equally arrognant in your assumtion that your age makes you more fit to critique design.

 

[hosemonkey]

What does age have to do with cricquing design? I can make an equally informed decision just as you can. Infact possibly a better one as in my past 20 years more information has been available to my supple young mind that was in 1970…

Just as my little brother when he is around 16 can make just as an informed descion.

You are beign equally arrognant in your assumtion that your age makes you more fit to critique design.

No one’s age qualifies them to critique God. Your “supple young mind” does not possess the knowledge to make that sort of judgement, you simply come across as presumptuous.

 

[Abbadon]

Yes, I get the point, but you are looking at fallen human bodies trying to see them how you would make them perfect.

Take away disease, deterioration and mortality and you have what you are looking for. But that will only be achieved after the resurrection. So of course it is easy to criticize our design because we don’t work perfectly.

Heck even little kids imagine better ways to be designed since they see a problem with our physical limitations, they want to be invincible, fly and do even more than we can normally do.

Enjoy what you have, it is pretty darn nice. It is much better than less than what you are.

We can’t even design a computer that can respond to each other like we are currently doing. Now make one that works as efficiently that can appreciate music, a good meal, surf the web and complain about not being made better.

God Bless
Scylla

We no way near have the resources of a god so that is no comparison at all. I’m sure if we did we could do all that…

Oh so after the ressurection he is going to improve his design?

Look a human species doesn’t have to be perfect they could just be alot better designed. You could still leave room for alot of things, but there are just so much room for improvement to make humans a far better species.

I’m getting a general idea from peoples thoughts that everyone seems to simply accept that gods work is good…

I’m jsut intrested in how you make up the conflict of perfection of creation that s all… To me i see a perfectly good and logical way we came about that would indicate very well the way we are and why… I don’t really need a designer to be the way i am…

 

[PapaSquash]

Now before i begin this thread i can’t promise that i will be responding to everything, just the interesting ones. I’m sorry i just don’t have enough time.

As a designer i could have designed at least humanity alot better. DNA is a rather poor replicator, …so on so forth. Overall alot better design…

Anyway the point is. IF this creation is designed, it is a poor design and would in no way win a design award in a relative field of being creation. I argue that I given the resources and budget of a god could do a much better job.

Now i would love to hear your thoughts…

“Given” the resources? Given by Whom?

All you are saying that if you could do everything God could do then you could do everything God could do. One of the things God can do, that we can’t, is to define “better.” THE defect of our fallen nature is that we think we know how to judge the relative merits of God’s Creation. (That’s why it’s called the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.)

We are perfectly suited for the purposes of our designer. Our Designer is, by definition, the creator, the one and only uncaused cause. He who is capable of calling all existence in to being, out of nothing, with only a thought. There cannot be a “relative field of being creation.” There can only be one “creator,” there exists nothing relative at that level. He who can do that, gets to judge your putative design contest. Looking around, I see nobody else has entered.

But go ahead, take a shot. Give us a being entirely of your own design, even just a theoretical one, since you can’t use any of your competitor’s raw materials, and you lack the ability to call you own version of matter into existence out of nothingness. Given the constraints of space, just show us a workable sub-system, the equivalent of the membrane of a bacillus perhaps. Has to be entirely yours though. No stealing design ideas from your competitor; laws of physics, methods of grouping subatomic patricles, atomic structures, the periodic table, chemical compounds, the Krebs cycle, etc. You have to start from scratch.

I won’t hold my breath.

 

[hosemonkey]

No one’s age qualifies them to critique God. Your “supple young mind” does not possess the knowledge to make that sort of judgement, you simply come across as presumptuous.

Just to quote from your profile, " I was once Catholic,in my youth. But as I grew my logic & the growth of my knowledge broke my faith."

In your youth? So, having reached the advanced age of 20, you have arrived at the conclusion that your faith was futile? Obviously, for one as wise as yourself, God was just a bumbler?

 

[Abbadon]

Just to quote from your profile, " I was once Catholic,in my youth. But as I grew my logic & the growth of my knowledge broke my faith."

In your youth? So, having reached the advanced age of 20, you have arrived at the conclusion that your faith was futile? Obviously, for one as wise as yourself, God was just a bumbler?

By youth i obviously mean my relative youth. 7 - 10… In the future perhaps when i’m over the 25% mark of age so over 40 i will say in my pre teen years?

Geeez sorry for getting a gramatical error from a retardedly complicated language like english…

I never meant to imply i was ridiculously wise, I’m just saying from a design point of view, the human form is a poor creation for someone who is all powerfull…

 

[CB_Catholic]

“Given” the resources? Given by Whom?

But go ahead, take a shot. Give us a being entirely of your own design, even just a theoretical one, since you can’t use any of your competitor’s raw materials, and you lack the ability to call you own version of matter into existence out of nothingness. Given the constraints of space, just show us a workable sub-system, the equivalent of the membrane of a bacillus perhaps. Has to be entirely yours though. No stealing design ideas from your competitor; laws of physics, methods of grouping subatomic patricles, atomic structures, the periodic table, chemical compounds, the Krebs cycle, etc. You have to start from scratch.

I won’t hold my breath.

To improve upon a design you need to have a reference point. But God didn’t need one. He designed all of the above from nothing. He didn’t build upon anything that pre-existed. Now tell me that your human mind could even conceive of the idea of DNA, the laws of physics, the atomic theory and the other things listed above. It couldn’t. And such things just don’t happen by accident–they are just too well-designed and orderly for that. Besides, nothing comes from nothing, that is an impossibility. So when you get all puffed up about how you could improve things, just remember that if God didn’t design them first, you couldn’t even begin to think of improving them.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Anyway the point is. IF this creation is designed, it is a poor design and would in no way win a design award in a relative field of being creation. I argue that I given the resources and budget of a god could do a much better job.

This sounds like a “I define what God is, therefore if He does not meet my criteria, He doesn’t exist or something.” No? But the fall is indeed the cause of suffering.

The key to understanding our imperfections is Christ’s crucifixion. When we suffer, we are in position to unite ourselves to the Cross and the glorious work of redemption. If you can understand the power in this, you will understand an awful lot.

 

[PaulinVA]

Abbadon, as Christians we believe that we are fallen. We are not as God intended. We were perfectly designed for the Garden. But man decided that he wanted to know as much as God, which is how original sin entered the world. With that sin came the corruption of our bodies.

I am a father, and I marvel at the human body and how it is self healing and takes care of itself.

Put something bad in your mouth? Throw it up.
Eat something bad? Throw it up or get rid of it the other way, before it does damage.
Little kid who doesn’t talk is sick? Give him a fever so mom and dad know.
Break your arm? It’ll heal.

I actually believe that God started all of this. Can you possible believe that we are a fluke? An aberration of cells that just happened to fly together? The fact that there IS a liver or a kidney is preposterous to think if you believe there was nothing directing the design of the body.