Why did God even create us if He knew that some would go to hell?

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According to the Catechism; the cheif punishment of hell is seperation from God.

We are free to choose to be with or without God.

It would be cruel of God to create us and give us free will yet force us to follow him.

Free will allows us to choose who to follow; God’s gift of heaven is open to everyone. Yes; he knew many would reject him; but his gift to us is very valuable…

Think of it like this; why do parent’s have kid’s even though they know the kids will die eventually? It is because this Gift of life is so very precious; it surpasses any suffering, death or rejection.
 
Metaphysically speaking, it is better to exist in Hell than not to exist at all. Existance is itself a good.

I common objection to this idea is the scripture verse which says “it would have been better if he had never been born” (if I remember the context, refering to one who scandalizes the innocent). However, it is important to note that the verse says “born” and not “existed”. Thus, the verse could easily be saying it would have been better if that person had died in infancy, or more precisely, while still in the womb. Thus, he would exist, but not have been “born”.
 
According to the Catechism; the cheif punishment of hell is seperation from God.

We are free to choose to be with or without God.

It would be cruel of God to create us and give us free will yet force us to follow him.

Free will allows us to choose who to follow; God’s gift of heaven is open to everyone. Yes; he knew many would reject him; but his gift to us is very valuable…

Think of it like this; why do parent’s have kid’s even though they know the kids will die eventually? It is because this Gift of life is so very precious; it surpasses any suffering, death or rejection.
I agree it would be cruel of God to force us to follow him. But that’s totally different than from Him not creating us at all.
 
My understanding is that God doesn’t work that way. He doesn’t think, “OK. 1,000 babies are going to be created in the next hour. These 600 will go to Hell and these 400 over here will go to Heaven.” God certainly KNOWS how each of us behave for the duration of our mortal lives. But that is not HIS choosing - it is ours.

God in omnipotent, for sure. However, He gives us free will to make our own choices. Here is a crude example. I know the sun will appear tomorrow morning in the eastern sky. My knowledge of that fact doesn’t impact the result. God knowing that some will not choose Him in their lives does not prevent Him from creating them.

Remember, God exists outside of time. To him, “one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as one day.” He sees EVERYTHING all at once. Again, even though He knows an outcome He usually doesn’t directly intervene. I have seen the movie, “The Wizard of Oz” probably a hundred times. Knowing how it will end doesn’t influence the ending. To a degree, knowing how it will end doesn’t influence my enjoyment of the film.

God knows how we will respond to Him. But He loves us all so much, He allows us to deny Him. Love cannot be bought or forced upon someone. Love comes from within each of us as we respond to the love God gives us.

God gave us free will. We can choose Him or choose to abandon Him. Fr. Larry Richards puts it this way. When our earthly life is over, God will give us what we love the most. Is that Jesus? If not, he will give us eternity apart from Him. To me, that sounds like hell. That is certainly not God’s desire, but the choice was always ours.
 
My understanding is that God doesn’t work that way. He doesn’t think, “OK. 1,000 babies are going to be created in the next hour. These 600 will go to Hell and these 400 over here will go to Heaven.” God certainly KNOWS how each of us behave for the duration of our mortal lives. But that is not HIS choosing - it is ours.

God in omnipotent, for sure. However, He gives us free will to make our own choices. Here is a crude example. I know the sun will appear tomorrow morning in the eastern sky. My knowledge of that fact doesn’t impact the result. God knowing that some will not choose Him in their lives does not prevent Him from creating them.

Remember, God exists outside of time. To him, “one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as one day.” He sees EVERYTHING all at once. Again, even though He knows an outcome He usually doesn’t directly intervene. I have seen the movie, “The Wizard of Oz” probably a hundred times. Knowing how it will end doesn’t influence the ending. To a degree, knowing how it will end doesn’t influence my enjoyment of the film.

God knows how we will respond to Him. But He loves us all so much, He allows us to deny Him. Love cannot be bought or forced upon someone. Love comes from within each of us as we respond to the love God gives us.

God gave us free will. We can choose Him or choose to abandon Him. Fr. Larry Richards puts it this way. When our earthly life is over, God will give us what we love the most. Is that Jesus? If not, he will give us eternity apart from Him. To me, that sounds like hell. That is certainly not God’s desire, but the choice was always ours.
THank you for your response, but it’s not getting to the heart of the objection. Why would God create AT ALL if even one person would go to hell? Why is existing in hell better than not existing at all? How could God permit some to go to hell rather than not create at all?
 
Why would God create us if some of us would end up in hell? Even if only one person would end up in hell, wouldn’t that be enough to prevent God from creating humanity?

It seems better for none of us to exist then for some persons to spend an eternity in hell, right?
Definitely not! It would be grossly unfair not to create anyone simply because some individuals choose hell. If they were forced to go to hell it would be a different matter but they aren’t. Why do they reject God? Because they want to be absolutely free. That in itself is a source of great pleasure even though it means they are frustrated and dissatisfied because without God they can never be perfectly happy. That void is the source of their misery…

Freedom is the greatest possession we have. Without it we are incapable of love. That is why evil has to be accepted as the price of freedom. Would you prefer not to have been born (together with all those you love) simply because others deliberately abuse their freedom and get what they want?
 
Someone once suggested that God’s big punishment for Satan will be to ultimately save those who have chosen Hell… so that all the demons will be alone despite all their best efforts… I don’t know if this is true and it certainly hasn’t been confirmed by any revelations but it helped that particular person in their spiritual journey. It’s not something I care to comment on either way - there’s so much we just can’t know.

I think we are too stuck in our own minds, in this reality, to understand Hell and Heaven. We are children, we have the minds of children as compared to our Almighty God and His angels. What He has given us, the little bits of knowledge He’s given us about Hell and Heaven scratch ONLY the surface of these things - and this I truly believe, because we couldn’t possibly understand more. We aren’t capable of understanding more. Despite how highly we think of ourselves, we’re all complete idiots when compared to God.

So instead of wondering; why would He create us if He knew some of us would suffer eternally for rejecting him - we should accept what He has shown us about Hell and continue to do what we’re here to do… which is, spread the news about Him. The news that despite our imperfections, despite our idiocy, despite everything He loves us and He has given us tools to help us live better, more fulfilling lives.

These so called ‘contrary’ truths that seem to indicate God is not loving are stumbling blocks… little tests of our faith WITHIN what He’s given us. When we can learn to trust Him completely, even despite these stumbling blocks, He will reward us with more knowledge… or peace.

That’s how I look at it.
 
As Katholish said, metaphysics would say that existence in a terrible place is better compared to nonexistence in a void.

Regarding free will and omniscience of God, I once read a metaphor, that is slightly crude: Imagine if God was as a grand chess master. He can predict (in God’s case, know) what move his opponent would play, and act accordingly. God knows what move we would choose next, and He will act His Will accordingly

Of course, this analogy falls short of one major factor: time. Time, in God’s view, is both eternity and nothing. Our feeble human minds can not comprehend a non-linear time span. Especially with this contradiction of free will and God’s omniscience, we tend to immediately think of God’s actions and plane of existence as something akin to our own.

Back to OP’s question: I’m thinking out loud here, so if I’m wrong, then I apologize. Heaven is a reward for the righteous, and Hell is punishment for the damned. Psychologically, since we have a choice, wouldn’t it be even a greater reward to choose Heaven? Would Heaven be a reward for us, if there was no Hell?
 
Why would God create us if some of us would end up in hell? Even if only one person would end up in hell, wouldn’t that be enough to prevent God from creating humanity?

It seems better for none of us to exist then for some persons to spend an eternity in hell, right?

+HELP+
Originally asked by someone at Yahoo Answers
answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqCqsxF8Y4491kY.pcNJFhLwDH1G;_ylv=3?qid=20100726141322AAMc4zh
I made a thread with this EXACT same question a while ago. 😃 Here it is: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=410093

Simply put, it’s entirely that person’s fault if they end up in hell. Why should God deny us the opportunity to join in his love for eternity just because some people freely choose otherwise? If God didn’t allow the good people to be created because some people would choose to be bad, that would mean evil had power over God’s decisions.

God won’t let evil people prevent good people from enjoying existence in heaven.
 
Why would God create us if some of us would end up in hell? Even if only one person would end up in hell, wouldn’t that be enough to prevent God from creating humanity?

It seems better for none of us to exist then for some persons to spend an eternity in hell, right?

+HELP+
Originally asked by someone at Yahoo Answers
answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqCqsxF8Y4491kY.pcNJFhLwDH1G;_ylv=3?qid=20100726141322AAMc4zh
Because He knew some, if not most, of us wouldn’t.

God bless,
jd
 
I see this idea pop up frequently. Most of the testimonies of the saints who have seen hell that I have read indicate that the majority of the people in hell did not believe that such a place even existed. St.Avila comes to mind. This means that while people may choose to go to hell by their own volition, they may not be consciously aware of their choice while they are alive. I agree with Socrates in that no man (or woman) would consciously choose against “The Good”, or in our case God. I don’t blame God though, like some would. I blame us. It is our fault as Catholics, to whom the truth has been revealed, that people are unaware of their choice to go to hell.

I don’t understand why people would think God would even care if people go to hell. His existence is so vastly greater and more fuller than ours. I would imagine God sending someone to hell would be the equivalent of us unconsciously stepping on an ant, or killing some microscopic organism whose existence was unbeknownst to us and of relatively little significance.
 
God’s knowledge of our actions is contingent upon us performing them. A freely willed human choice must be made before it can be real knowledge. Knowledge of the free choice of a fake person is nonsensical.

For example, suppose I said “I have knowledge that Edward Cullen chose heaven.” That’s automatically false, because Edward isn’t a real person. I can’t know what Edward chose as a free human being because he is not, and never was, an actual free human being.

In contrast, suppose I said “I have knowledge that George Washington chose heaven.” Assuming I have the ability, this is true knowledge. George Washington was a real person, who made real choices. Therefore, it is entirely possible that I could know his real choices.

Since God is outside of time, he knows what George will choose “before” he is born, in a sense, but only because George does in fact choose that. God knows the ultimate choice of every individual in a timeless, eternal manner, but only because each individual does in fact make that choice. God can’t do anything about that. God can’t not create people based on where they would go if they were created, because God can only know where they go if they actually go there.
 
Hm! I haven’t taken the time to read all the postings, so this could be repetitious.

A couple questions have come to mind over the years.

If God proclaimed everything good that he had made, but humankind had a weakness, the capacity to sin, how could everything have been good? Humankind seems to have been created with a serious defect that led to disobedience.

If Adam and Eve, literally or figuratively, had not yet eaten from the Tree of the Knowledge of God and Evil, did they commit wrong? After all, like little children they did not know the difference until they did eat between the two. Even when God instructed them, they may have not understood that disobedience was wrong. Weren’t they rather like children before the age of accountability? By the way, Kierkegaard, the Danish theologian, emphasizes this point.
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 In any case, early on I dismissed the nonsense that 'in Adam's fall we sinneth all". I'll take responsibility for my own failures, and I don't blame them on a legendary couple way back then. 

I personally don't believe in hell. If there is such a place, few are sent there, regardless of what we find in scripture. It is outranked, as it were, by the emphasis that God is love, God is merciful and forgiving. Someone who condemns millions of people to eternal fire or its equivalent is hardly those things. 

 I've lived many years and have come to the conclusion that most people (a few exceptions) are on the whole decent. They put up with lots of disappointments, deep sorrows, illnesses, and much more, but generally they cope with courage and faith. This notion, Catholic or Protestant, that we all are notorious sinners is a stretch. We all do wrong things, sometimes deliberately, but most people have a tough time in life. Who was it who said something like this: "Everyone you meet is fighting a tough battle, so be kind"?

 God bless all his children of every creed, color and country.
 
Oh, and while I’m at it, the story of Noah is offensive to God - in my view. To begin with, God is depicted as having regrets that he created humankind. God made a mistake?!
But the idea that God would drown everybody but eight adults - Noah, three sons and wives - is outrageous. Surely there were young children, some even in the womb. How could God order an atrocity that ran counter to the The Commandments as well as the Sermon on the Mount. Then there are those other problems of course: an ark big enough to hold all those animals, getting two of every kind to enter the ark, feeding them for the 150 days that the water remained on the earth - etc. A cute story to tell little children, maybe, but I can't believe that God would murder all those folks as well as all those other living creatures.
 
Metaphysically speaking, it is better to exist in Hell than not to exist at all. Existance is itself a good.

I common objection to this idea is the scripture verse which says “it would have been better if he had never been born” (if I remember the context, refering to one who scandalizes the innocent). However, it is important to note that the verse says “born” and not “existed”. Thus, the verse could easily be saying it would have been better if that person had died in infancy, or more precisely, while still in the womb. Thus, he would exist, but not have been “born”.
Another perspective could be that, even if it would be better for the person not to have been born, he might still prefer and cherish the gift of his existence-he may want to continue to exist even if it’s in hell-maybe even especially if it’s in hell -if he can’t stomach being in the presence of God. God let’s us decide if we think it’s better for us to have been born or not, even if objectively speaking, it may not be.
 
Food for thought from the late Avery Cardinal Dulles writing of the late theologian Hans Urs von Balthasar and the late editor of First Things Father Richard Neuhaus:

Hans Urs von Balthasar
The most sophisticated theological argument against the conviction that some human beings in fact go to hell has been proposed by Hans Urs von Balthasar in his book Dare We Hope “That All Men Be Saved?” He rejects the ideas that hell will be emptied at the end of time and that the damned souls and demons will be reconciled with God. He also avoids asserting as a fact that everyone will be saved. But he does say that we have a right and even a duty to hope for the salvation of all, because it is not impossible that even the worst sinners may be moved by God’s grace to repent before they die. He concedes, however, that the opposite is also possible. Since we are able to resist the grace of God, none of us is safe. We must therefore leave the question speculatively open, thinking primarily of the danger in which we ourselves stand.

At one point in his book Balthasar incorporates a long quotation from Edith Stein, now Saint Teresa Benedicta of the Cross, who defends a position very like Balthasar’s. Since God’s all-merciful love, she says, descends upon everyone, it is probable that this love produces transforming effects in their lives. To the extent that people open themselves to that love, they enter into the realm of redemption. On this ground Stein finds it possible to hope that God’s omnipotent love finds ways of, so to speak, outwitting human resistance. Balthasar says that he agrees with Stein.

This position of Balthasar seems to me to be orthodox. It does not contradict any ecumenical councils or definitions of the faith. It can be reconciled with everything in Scripture, at least if the statements of Jesus on hell are taken as minatory rather than predictive. Balthasar’s position, moreover, does not undermine a healthy fear of being lost. But the position is at least adventurous. It runs against the obvious interpretation of the words of Jesus in the New Testament and against the dominant theological opinion down through the centuries, which maintains that some, and in fact very many, are lost.

It is unfair and incorrect to accuse either Balthasar or Richard John Neuhaus (who wrote an article supporting Balthasar in 2002) of teaching that no one goes to hell. They grant that it is probable that some or even many do go there, but they assert, on the ground that God is capable of bringing any sinner to repentance, that we have a right to hope and pray that all will be saved. The fact that something is highly improbable need not prevent us from hoping and praying that it will happen. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, “In hope, the Church prays for ‘all men to be saved’ (1 Timothy 2:4)” (CCC §1821). At another point the Catechism declares: “The Church prays that no one should be lost” (CCC §1058).

Lest I be accused of “heresy” :eek:, this is just me throwing out some food for thought from an article written by a Cardinal of our Church, well-versed in theology, and I believe arguing for HOPE in CHRIST while not losing sight of consequences for out actions. Full article here:
payingattentiontothesky.com/category/scriptural-exegesis/avery-cardinal-dulles/
 
I don’t understand why people would think God would even care if people go to hell. His existence is so vastly greater and more fuller than ours. I would imagine God sending someone to hell would be the equivalent of us unconsciously stepping on an ant, or killing some microscopic organism whose existence was unbeknownst to us and of relatively little significance.
Why would you limit God? Each one of us, each and every one of us, individually, was created by Our Maker with Love; to say God wouldn’t care does God a great disservice I would argue and entirely devalues His Love for us, poor sinners that we are. Would God send His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to Suffer and Die on the Cross for just a bunch of ants?
 
Why would you limit God? Each one of us, each and every one of us, individually, was created by Our Maker with Love; to say God wouldn’t care does God a great disservice I would argue and entirely devalues His Love for us, poor sinners that we are. Would God send His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to Suffer and Die on the Cross for just a bunch of ants?
I don’t take the liberal view on hell. It’s most likely overflowing with souls. You ask tough questions to which I have the wisdom to admit I don’t have the answer. Jesus Christ, as a historical figure, lived and died in obscurity. Why? Did he not want to share in the pages of history with the scoundrels who were given the power to pass on their legacy to future generations? Maybe. God wants us to actively seek him; to remain passive in a wicked world is to acknowledge and thrive in evil, to even approve of it. My own humble opinion is that God created the world out of love for His own enemy–the “god of this age” or the “prince of this world”, not for us. I’m not sure I want to go into it further, but in short, we are insignificant pawns, servants if you will, in a much larger cosmic battle.
 
Oh, and while I’m at it, the story of Noah is offensive to God - in my view. To begin with, God is depicted as having regrets that he created humankind. God made a mistake?!
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But the idea that God would drown everybody but eight adults - Noah, three sons and wives - is outrageous. Surely there were young children, some even in the womb. How could God order an atrocity that ran counter to the The Commandments as well as the Sermon on the Mount. Then there are those other problems of course: an ark big enough to hold all those animals, getting two of every kind to enter the ark, feeding them for the 150 days that the water remained on the earth - etc. A cute story to tell little children, maybe, but I can't believe that God would murder all those folks as well as all those other living creatures.
I heard that before, it’s how you comment on the story that reveals how you feel about God.
What I find totally ridiculous is that Noah had such a tremendous task to complete by building a massive Ark and no one to help him. What did they do instead of helping Noah or following example? They mocked him. They could had either helped Noah or build their own. How much they understood what was going to happen to them, I’m not sure. But it’s clear by their action they did nothing to grasp what was going to happen and nothing to help Noah. The adults made their choice and it effected everyone under their protection, their children (just as Noah’s action save his family). In the story, yes, God promise to send the rain, but He also gave instructions how to build an Ark and He couldn’t save Noah without his (Noah’s) coöperation.

God can’t save someone without their coöperation.
 
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