Why did God kill those Egyptian first-born sons

[zhangxupage]

Those sons were innocent. Some of them were even babies. Why did God do such an unjust act?

Some would answer that He did that because he’s God or showing his authority. Then why did he sacrifice those innocent kids? That’s not just or loving.

I am not challenging the Bible but just seeking the truth.

 

[porthos11]

Those sons were innocent. Some of them were even babies. Why did God do such an unjust act?

Since God is justice himself, nothing he ever does is unjust.

Some would answer that He did that because he’s God or showing his authority. Then why did he sacrifice those innocent kids? That’s not just or loving.

I am not challenging the Bible but just seeking the truth.

Again, nothing God ever does is unjust. So under no circumstances can we ever contest that. That’s something we must accept at face value.

God killed those Egyptian kids because God owns all human life, and he has every right to take it away. That includes your life and my life. And because it was his will to do so.

For us human beings to murder is unjust because we were not given that right to do so. But because God has the full right to take anyone’s life, for him to kill anyone is not unjust at all.

 

[zhangxupage]

Since God is justice himself, nothing he ever does is unjust.

Again, nothing God ever does is unjust. So under no circumstances can we ever contest that. That’s something we must accept at face value.

God killed those Egyptian kids because God owns all human life, and he has every right to take it away. That includes your life and my life. And because it was his will to do so.

For us human beings to murder is unjust because we were not given that right to do so. But because God has the full right to take anyone’s life, for him to kill anyone is not unjust at all.

1. Then what’s going to happen to those who have never got a chance to hear Gospel?
2. God has the right to kill but it does not mean he would do it.That’s not loving. Killing the Egyptian sons contradicts the meaning of Justice He establishes. Since God’s justice himself, and nothing he has done is unjust then means there must be something behind to settle this contradiction.
3. Should we kill someone who does not believe in God because he’s going to hell after he dies anyway? Should we kill the Muslims in order to preach Christianity because if we don’t kill them, they are going to hell anyway?

 

[porthos11]

1. Then what’s going to happen to those who have never got a chance to hear Gospel?

We leave them to the mercy of God, since he alone knows the state of their souls.

1. God has the right to kill but it does not mean he would do it.That’s not loving. Killing the Egyptian sons contradicts the meaning of Justice He establishes. Since God’s justice himself, and nothing he has done is unjust then means there must be something behind to settle this contradiction.

God killed or ordered the deaths of many people according to his infinite wisdom, which is not our wisdom. God cannot contradict himself. He ordered man not to commit murder, and that is why murder is unjust because man does not have that right. God has the right to give and take life, so it is impossible for him to be unjust. He can kill me or you right here, right now, and glory to him forever, but he owns my life, and it is his to take.

God ordered the deaths of the first-born because he warned Pharaoh that he would do so if he did not let Israel go. But even more importantly, it signified that the Lord passed over Israel, and foreshadowed the mystery of Jesus himself. As for the souls of those first-born, we leave them to the mercy of God.

1. Should we kill someone who does not believe in God because he’s going to hell after he dies anyway? Should we kill the Muslims in order to preach Christianity because if we don’t kill them, they are going to hell anyway?

No, because God ordered us not to commit murder, and Jesus himself holds us to a higher standard. So killing Muslims or anyone else is not something we are allowed to do. We are NOT God. In fact, they should live longer so that they will have the longest possible time to hear the Gospel and be converted.

 

[zhangxupage]

We leave them to the mercy of God, since he alone knows the state of their souls.

God killed or ordered the deaths of many people according to his infinite wisdom, which is not our wisdom. God cannot contradict himself. He ordered man not to commit murder, and that is why murder is unjust because man does not have that right. God has the right to give and take life, so it is impossible for him to be unjust. He can kill me or you right here, right now, and glory to him forever, but he owns my life, and it is his to take.

God ordered the deaths of the first-born because he warned Pharaoh that he would do so if he did not let Israel go. But even more importantly, it signified that the Lord passed over Israel, and foreshadowed the mystery of Jesus himself. As for the souls of those first-born, we leave them to the mercy of God.

No, because God ordered us not to commit murder, and Jesus himself holds us to a higher standard. So killing Muslims or anyone else is not something we are allowed to do. We are NOT God. In fact, they should live longer so that they will have the longest possible time to hear the Gospel and be converted.

I agree with you that Just God cannot do anything that is unjust. Killing the sons contradicts justice which means there must be something, like a rational explanation, for this.

By the way, for the first question, do you mean that we don’t know where those people are going? But the Church teaches that Salvation is open to all.

 

[porthos11]

I agree with you that Just God cannot do anything that is unjust. Killing the sons contradicts justice which means there must be something, like a rational explanation, for this.

God allows evil to happen for the sole reason that he can bring a greater good out of it. In the case of the first-born, he brought forth his chosen people from captivity, and from them, the Messiah.

By the way, for the first question, do you mean that we don’t know where those people are going? But the Church teaches that Salvation is open to all.

The Church teaches that salvation is only through Christ. The Church also teaches that salvation may be possible for those who never heard the Gospel through no fault of their own. But even if they are saved, it will be through Christ and his Church.

But for those who know that Christ is the only way to salvation and that the Catholic Church is the Church Christ founded, and refuse to enter it, such a one cannot be saved.

 

[Nickkname]

Those sons were innocent. Some of them were even babies. Why did God do such an unjust act?

Some would answer that He did that because he’s God or showing his authority. Then why did he sacrifice those innocent kids? That’s not just or loving.

I am not challenging the Bible but just seeking the truth.

Trust in God, don’t doubt His justice or His mercy. When He strkes, He dose so out of love. If you want to know the reasons of His ways, pray; ask Him yourself why He dose this or that, and if it pleases Him, He will tell you. Either way, trust in the Lord.

 

[zhangxupage]

Trust in God, don’t doubt His justice or His mercy. When He strkes, He dose so out of love. If you want to know the reasons of His ways, pray; ask Him yourself why He dose this or that, and if it pleases Him, He will tell you. Either way, trust in the Lord.

I just want an explanation or interpretation from the Church. I want to see how the Church says.

I am not doubting. If I am, I would post a thread to attack Christianity. I just don’t understand so that I was saying “there must be something BEHIND it or something that could explain it.”

Just like evolution and creation, as John Paul II said, “truth cannot contradict truth,” so the first chapter of Genesis could be a metaphor or something. So I want to see how the Church solves this contradiction.

 

[KingAlfred]

Those sons were innocent. Some of them were even babies. Why did God do such an unjust act?

Some would answer that He did that because he’s God or showing his authority. Then why did he sacrifice those innocent kids? That’s not just or loving.

I am not challenging the Bible but just seeking the truth.

He didn’t. That’s a legend in ancient Jewish religious literature, written and taught to promote Judaism and the Jewish nation. The moral of the story is obvious by design – *‘don’t mess with the Jews.’*Too bad the Nazis didn’t take heed. They too, and quite rightfully of course, felt the wrath of God for dismissing that vital lesson. These theo-historical events cast an ever-darkening shadow of doom over the Middle East, especially Iran. Whomever tries to destroy the Jews, will in turn be destroyed.

 

[zhangxupage]

He didn’t. That’s a legend in ancient Jewish religious literature, written and taught to promote Judaism and the Jewish nation. The moral of the story is obvious by design – *‘don’t mess with the Jews.’*Too bad the Nazis didn’t take heed. They too, and quite rightfully of course, felt the wrath of God for dismissing that vital lesson. These theo-historical events cast an ever-darkening shadow of doom over the Middle East, especially Iran. Whomever tries to destroy the Jews, will in turn be destroyed.

Does the Church say God didn’t do it?

 

[KingAlfred]

Does the Church say God didn’t do it?

The Church says that whenever we read the Bible, we must keep in mind historical context. The tradition of Catholic Biblical interpretation also implies the active employment of reason by the reader. Yes…my analysis steps over the line a bit, but as a *non-Marxist *follower of Liberation Theology, I read the sacred text in this manner, generally speaking. Its truths for me are just as cogent as they are for the literal interpreter. I just believe that God’s majesty, power and glory are so unfathomable, that literal translation isn’t necessary in most cases. The best ‘proof’ of the truth of Catholicism is HISTORY, much more than anything else.

 

[Nickkname]

Those sons were innocent. Some of them were even babies. Why did God do such an unjust act?

Some would answer that He did that because he’s God or showing his authority. Then why did he sacrifice those innocent kids? That’s not just or loving.

I am not challenging the Bible but just seeking the truth.

My second reply

There is no Church teaching on why God killed the babies, but I have heard that He did it to punish the Egyptians, who had taken the first-borns of the Isrealities and drowned them in the Nile. I’ve also heard that God did it to save the babies from evil. And that He did it to reveal His glory to the nations. I don’t know which is true, or if they are all true (namely, God killed the babies to punish the Egyptian and also save the babies from evil, and to reveal His glory to the nations), but I trust in God. He is Good.

 

[grandfather]

Those sons were innocent. Some of them were even babies. Why did God do such an unjust act?

Some would answer that He did that because he’s God or showing his authority. Then why did he sacrifice those innocent kids? That’s not just or loving.

I am not challenging the Bible but just seeking the truth.

From the point of view of justice the first thing we see in the Bible is in the Old Testament. It is not mercy, but an eye for an eye.

Remember how God punished all the Jews for the sin of David the King? Now fast forward and see God forgives His people, for the sacrifice of Christ the King. The fate of the people is linked to the actions of the king and somehow that is just. You would not complain that you get to avoid hell, because King Jesus suffered and died for you, but how is that just?

Now go back and look at the story of the Egyptians and the Jews. The Jews were the slaves of the Egyptians for generations. Was that just? The Egyptian pharoah ordered the execution of all of the firstborn sons of the Jews and it was carried out. Only Moses escaped, by being cared for by Pharoah’s daughter. If all the Jews of the Old Testament were punished for David’s sin of taking a census, then what should happen to the Egyptians for the sin of Pharoah for murdering all of the firstborn sons of the Jews? What does justice demand?

Your problem is not with God’s justice. You expect Him to be merciful and not repay the Egyptians for their crime.

There is mystery here. We can’t grasp all of what is being presented. We do not know the eternal fate of the souls of the Egyptian children and adults who were firstborn sons.

The physical history of the Jews prefigures something spiritual. As they were led out of slavery after the first Passover, the event you are thinking about, they spent forty years in the desert on the way to the physcal promised land, prefiguring the spiritual promised land, heaven.

Jesus died for our sins and we long and pray for the coming of His Kingdom, but it is not here yet. He can reign in souls, but the world is a mess. Our sins can be forgiven, but we are wnadering in the wilderness still. The world is full of darkness and struggle as the Jews struggled in the desert with no homeland.

Pharoah in this spiritual lesson of history in typology is Satan. He was the head of all of the slave drivers who enslaved and whipped the people, as the human race is enslaved in sin by a cruel master and demons. God is more powerful than the devil and sets His people free and destroys the demons and those horsemen who try to prevent the freedom of His people.

We are to see in this physical history overlayed by spiritual and divine events a reflection of our own spiritual lives.

 

[puzzleannie]

Those sons were innocent. Some of them were even babies. Why did God do such an unjust act?

Some would answer that He did that because he’s God or showing his authority. Then why did he sacrifice those innocent kids? That’s not just or loving.

I am not challenging the Bible but just seeking the truth.

Pharaoh himself called down the punishment on Egypt, having first been warned by Moses that the punishment he meted on the Jews would be turned back on the Egyptians.

 

[grandfather]

Pharaoh himself called down the punishment on Egypt, having first been warned by Moses that the punishment he meted on the Jews would be turned back on the Egyptians.

The quesstion of why the consequences of one man’s evil are laid on other people is much broader than this one story. The entire human race suffers the consequence of inheriting fallen nature as a result of our first parent’s sin. This seems unjust, but we also all benefit from the obedience and redemptive act of Christ and His mother, the second Adam and second Eve. There is definitely mystery here and we can’t understand it completely, but in faith we know God is perfectly just.

 

[marymol]

Good explanations above …since we all have been fed the lie by the serpent , of a God who is unjust and not that good , it is natural to wonder about these instances …

We are very happy when God grants the plea for mercy by one leader …Moses , for instance, whose intercession helped all the Israelites …

and surprised and disppointed when the reverse happens,as in the case of David ( when it says satan rose up against David - David , by now should have known to trust God may be … !) we expect God to step in , at every occasion and on behalf of every person who seem to suffer unjustly …

Why it does not so happen …if we see suffering only for those whom we can easliy see to be wicked, would we have any compassion for any suffering which seems an unavoidable fact in afallen world of free people …and hence we might only i harden our hearts (as the friends of Job seemed to have done !) In our own sufferings too , we would forget to look for the good …and would even miss out on hope …

In Fatima too , our Bl.Mother had warned - ’ the good would suffer with the bad …" - reason for us all to watch out , care and pray - for all …

Another mysterious possibilty too - seems often what we seem to attribute to God in such events is the manifestation of unchecked evil …the Egyptianas had 400 years to have learned and respected Jewish customs and values …instead stayed with their idolatry and animal worship and sorceries and who knows what all the sociaal ills were with all that … (some mention also of the potent nature of the evil idols and such in those times , without the power and presence of our Incarnate Lord …)

And yet , God would not want the Israelites to search after the pagan power … Israel already had enough problems going after such alluremnets …and instead , if they did turn to the True God, such evil was not of much power against God’s people ( even now The Church prohibits us lay persons from using direct commands to satan in exorcism and want us to ask our Father to come to our help )

When we come to the New Testament times , we have the enormous promise of our Lord - how the least in His Kingdom is greater than the greatest in the Old Testament times - for He gives us the power to ’ do greater things …’ - such as the power to call on the Holy Spirit …be people who can forgive …convert hearts… love enemies … wardoff evil … ask for mercy and offer praise from the heart , as His beloved children …for all the world …

Our God is an awesome God …and a Good Father …

All praise and glory be to Him !

 

[AHapka]

I agree with you that Just God cannot do anything that is unjust. Killing the sons contradicts justice which means there must be something, like a rational explanation, for this.

You stated that killing the sons contradicts justice in several posts.

I don’t see how this is so? I think that the first thing you need to do as part of your argument is specify why killing the sons was unjust in your opinion.

I think the reason that you are seeing a contradiction is because you are presuming that killing the sons is unjust. There is no place in scripture or tradition where it is stated that God cannot kill. So I don’t see the contradiction then.

 

[latin_rite]

Pharaoh himself called down the punishment on Egypt, having first been warned by Moses that the punishment he meted on the Jews would be turned back on the Egyptians.

In my bible. in exodus8:28. it says something along the line of

But once more the lord "made Pharaoh become obdurate and would not let the people go
I was going to show it here with a link but n the online version it says "
“But once more Pharaoh became obdurate and would not let the people go”
This raises another question. But i’ll ask that later. I’ll go off what my Bible says instead of a online version.
How is it anyone’s fault either the pharohs or the people, if God made him obdrate?

 

[Brendan]

1. God has the right to kill but it does not mean he would do it.That’s not loving. Killing the Egyptian sons contradicts the meaning of Justice He establishes.

No it is not. It is the end goal of justice.

The end goal of life is to gain Heaven. It is not to live a long life, it is not even to live a life without suffering.

God granted the innocent children the gift of Heaven. For those who Egytians were not innocent, God gave them judgement.

So, not only was their justice, their was even Mercy, since not even the innocent children were entitled to the Gift of Heaven.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Those sons were innocent. Some of them were even babies. Why did God do such an unjust act?

Some would answer that He did that because he’s God or showing his authority. Then why did he sacrifice those innocent kids? That’s not just or loving.

I am not challenging the Bible but just seeking the truth.

It may be that if there is a real event (or more than one ?) behind the account, it was a plague which would perfectly explicable by modern medicine. When the account was written, medical knowledge was not up to much; not in Israel at least. That something is seen as religiously significant depends not on the thing as such, but on what people “make of it”. So where an historian might see a plague, & quite rightly, by his own terms of reference, a theologian might equally rightly, within his, see an act of God. IMHO, that or something like it may be what we are dealing with here.​

An example: historically, the Nazis were hammered flat when they got to a certain stage in the invasion of Russia. An historian would account for this by noting Hitler’s deficiencies as a war-leader, the recovery of the Soviet Army from the purges of the 30s, the ability of Marshal Zhukov, the failure of the Luftwaffe to keep up with the German Army, the over-extension of German supply lines, & so on. A prophet OTOH might see the destruction of the German Army as a Divine judgement on an aggressive & very nasty regime. Both accounts explain the same set of events - from very different vantage-points. And the prophetic account is not the only possible account; a neo-Nazi would give a very different account, yet it would be as much a judgement of value as the prophetic account. So the facts of “what happened” do not of themselves require a particular value-judgement. Yet the facts cannot be overlooked if a judgement is to be made.