Why did God not openly reveal Trinity to Jews?

[Prayer_Warrior]

I was reading Valke’s Trinity thread and it brought to mind something that I have wondered over the years. Why do you suppose that God did not openly reveal the Trinity to the Jews…either through Abraham or Moses, etc? It seems to me it would have saved a lot of grief later on down the road. I know this is speculative and we can only know so much about why God does what He does, but still, I wonder. Is there anything in the New Testament that sheds some light on this? I am not a theologian or scripture scholar so bear with me.

Something that Valke said kind of struck a chord with me. He said the Old Testament is actually anti-Triune and that it focuses on the “God is one” factor. Well, of course, God is one and the Trinity does not contradict that–though that is an extremely difficult thing to explain to someone who is Jewish. But the thought occured to me that God always knows what He is doing and He does it for a reason . With that in mind, I began to think that possibly God did not reveal the Trinity to the early Patriarch’s precisely because of the “God is one” factor. In other words, He wanted it to be known, first and foremost that He is one. Then, over time, He would reveal Himself further.

So, any thoughts?

 

[VociMike]

Wow.

God did reveal the Trinity to the Jews. He did it through His Son, also God.

Many accepted this revelation. Many did not.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Wow.

God did reveal the Trinity to the Jews. He did it through His Son, also God.

Many accepted this revelation. Many did not.

I know that, silly, (I’m not that stupid). But my post says the Patriarchs–Abraham, Moses, etc. The whole point is why wasn’t Father, Son, and Holy Spirit revealed openly from the beginning.

 

[water]

The whole point is why wasn’t Father, Son, and Holy Spirit revealed openly from the beginning.

His time had not yet come. That’s all I could think of.

 

[VociMike]

I know that, silly, (I’m not that stupid). But my post says the Patriarchs–Abraham, Moses, etc. The whole point is why wasn’t Father, Son, and Holy Spirit revealed openly from the beginning.

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that you were stupid.

Nothing (well, hardly anything) was revealed from the beginning. The whole story of the Jewish people up to the coming of the Messiah was a story of revelation built upon revelation. I suppose no people could take all the truth at once, so the people of Israel had to be prepared bit by bit, generation after generation. It has been pointed out that one of the great revelations that Israel received was to know God’s name; that is, His existence as a being whom they could know and communicate with. With Jesus came the further revelation of God’s relationship with us – a family relationship. Thus it would make sense that God’s own intrinsic “family” would be revealed at this time.

And yet there’s that tantalizing reference in Genesis to “us” and “our”…

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that you were stupid.

No problem–I didn’t think you really meant to imply that anyway… but it was easy to envision after you word “wow” the words “that is the stupidest post I’ve seen”

Nothing (well, hardly anything) was revealed from the beginning. The whole story of the Jewish people up to the coming of the Messiah was a story of revelation built upon revelation. I suppose no people could take all the truth at once, so the people of Israel had to be prepared bit by bit, generation after generation. It has been pointed out that one of the great revelations that Israel received was to know God’s name; that is, His existence as a being whom they could know and communicate with. With Jesus came the further revelation of God’s relationship with us – a family relationship. Thus it would make sense that God’s own intrinsic “family” would be revealed at this time.

This makes sense to me.

And yet there’s that tantalizing reference in Genesis to “us” and “our”…

 

[Truthstalker]

He did.

“Hear, O Israel, God is one.” “One” here is a composite one.
You could go through the Old Testament and pick up Trinitarian references all over the place. It’s there for the seeing, from Genesis 1:1:

¶ In the beginning **God **created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the **Spirit of God **moved upon the face of the waters.
3 ¶ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Father, Spirit, Son (Word) The Father and the Spirit are very clear; the Son is suggested.

Somewhere someone wrote a book on the Trinity in the Old Testament. He who has eyes to see will see it, but the blind are still blind.

Look at Malachi 3:1 following:

¶ “Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the LORD of hosts.
2 "But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s fire And like launderer’s soap.
3 He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, And purge them as gold and silver, That they may offer to the LORD An offering in righteousness.
4 “Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem Will be pleasant to the LORD, As in the days of old, As in former years.
5 And I will come near you for judgment; I will be a swift witness Against sorcerers, Against adulterers, Against perjurers, Against those who exploit wage earners and widows and orphans, And against those who turn away an alien––Because they do not fear Me,” Says the LORD of hosts.

Here we clearly have the Father speaking of another coming to His temple in judgement - who must also be God, who acts in union with the LORD, Whom the LORD calls Lord. There are other passages that show the Father and the Spirit, I believe, and I think there are other passages that indicate the Son and the Spirit. Putting them together, you have the Trinity.

Male and female He created them, and the two became one flesh: two persons, one flesh. Perhaps this suggests something else in which more than one person is in a singularity.

 

[VociMike]

No problem–I didn’t think you really meant to imply that anyway… but it was easy to envision after you word “wow” the words “that is the stupidest post I’ve seen”

The failure in comprehension was mine, not yours.

 

[Veritas41]

This is just speculation on my part, but I’ve always wondered if it had something to do with the prevalence of polytheism. It seems like God needed to stress His oneness in contrast to the polytheism of paganism. Once belief in His oneness was established and ingrained, then His triune nature could be revealed without confusion.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

This is just speculation on my part, but I’ve always wondered if it had something to do with the prevalence of polytheism. It seems like God needed to stress His oneness in contrast to the polytheism of paganism. Once belief in His oneness was established and ingrained, then His triune nature could be revealed without confusion.

Yes, that was my angle too…He wanted it to be know foremost that He is One.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

He did.

“Hear, O Israel, God is one.” “One” here is a composite one.
You could go through the Old Testament and pick up Trinitarian references all over the place. It’s there for the seeing, from Genesis 1:1:

Father, Spirit, Son (Word) The Father and the Spirit are very clear; the Son is suggested.

Somewhere someone wrote a book on the Trinity in the Old Testament. He who has eyes to see will see it, but the blind are still blind.

Look at Malachi 3:1 following:

Here we clearly have the Father speaking of another coming to His temple in judgement - who must also be God, who acts in union with the LORD, Whom the LORD calls Lord. There are other passages that show the Father and the Spirit, I believe, and I think there are other passages that indicate the Son and the Spirit. Putting them together, you have the Trinity.

Male and female He created them, and the two became one flesh: two persons, one flesh. Perhaps this suggests something else in which more than one person is in a singularity.

I agree with you that Trinitarian references are all through the Old Testament. But that wasn’t really what I was getting at. It would seem that the Trinity is “embedded” in the Old Testament, waiting for Jesus to illuminate it. And, to a Christian, it all fits together lock and key. However, my point is, why didn’t God just come out with it from the beginning. “Look, Abraham, I am one God, but three persons”. Ok that is simplistic but you get my point I’m sure.

 

[Atreyu]

I agree with you that Trinitarian references are all through the Old Testament. But that wasn’t really what I was getting at. It would seem that the Trinity is “embedded” in the Old Testament, waiting for Jesus to illuminate it. And, to a Christian, it all fits together lock and key. However, my point is, why didn’t God just come out with it from the beginning. “Look, Abraham, I am one God, but three persons”. Ok that is simplistic but you get my point I’m sure.

Abraham just wasn’t ready for it! How comes Genesis doesn’t start off with “In the beginning there was a singularity out of which billions upon billions of stars formed each of which is larger than you could possibly imagine and they’re all formed from hydrogen mostly which burns to produce helium as well as light and heat and then the planets were formed…”

Abraham didn’t have the necessary background to comprehend the Trinity. Jesus came at exactly the right time.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Abraham just wasn’t ready for it! How comes Genesis doesn’t start off with “In the beginning there was a singularity out of which billions upon billions of stars formed each of which is larger than you could possibly imagine and they’re all formed from hydrogen mostly which burns to produce helium as well as light and heat and then the planets were formed…”

Abraham didn’t have the necessary background to comprehend the Trinity. Jesus came at exactly the right time.

Yes, I think you are right. It is very clear that the revelation of God was a very slow process and I concur that Jesus came exactly when He was supposed to. God’s people had lessons to learn prior to His coming.

 

[TNT]

Yes, I think you are right. It is very clear that the revelation of God was a very slow process and I concur that Jesus came exactly when He was supposed to. God’s people had lessons to learn prior to His coming.

Even then it didn’t work out so well for the Jews, but the Gentiles went for it.

 

[porthos11]

My guess is that the ancient Hebrews did not yet have a fully-developed concept of only one God. Given the varied cults of false gods in Israel, it seemed that the people still conceived that while there was only one God of Israel, there were other, true gods that were in charge of other nations.

It was only after the Exile that polytheism was stamped out among the Israelites once and for all, and is clearly evidenced from the latter part of the book of Isaiah (“I am the LORD, there is no other”).

If God were to have revealed his triune nature prematurely, that may have only served to confuse the ancient Jews even more, and polytheism may still have flourished. It had to take centuries for the notion that there is only one God to stick in their heads. Once that was clear, then the Triune nature can be revealed in due time.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Even then it didn’t work out so well for the Jews, but the Gentiles went for it.

Yes, but at least thousands were converted by the Apostles and early Church. (Well, at least 3,000 at Pentecost and I’m sure there were many more.)

 

[hlmem]

My thought was before Jesus there was no real “Trinity”, It was only the Holy Spirit.

No Jesus no third part of the trinity.

The when the son was born the father was also created, because he son being on earth and the father being in heaven gives a real sense to regular people that a connection can be made to God and heaven even though we are on earth.

Just a thought

 

[porthos11]

My thought was before Jesus there was no real “Trinity”, It was only the Holy Spirit.

No Jesus no third part of the trinity.

The when the son was born the father was also created, because he son being on earth and the father being in heaven gives a real sense to regular people that a connection can be made to God and heaven even though we are on earth.

Just a thought

And dangerously in error. The Son was not created, but was eternally begotten of the Father, uncreated.

The historic Christian Creed professes:

“We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. Eternally begotten of the Father. God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being [consubstantial] with the Father.”

In John 1:1, it says that “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” and in John 8:58, Jesus claims, “Before Abraham was, I AM”. The Scriptures clearly point to the fact that Jesus had been eternally with the Father before the Incarnation.

 

[hlmem]

1. Nothing in discussion is dangerously in error
2. Unlike the above posters just copy and pasted scripture, I decided to look it up and did some research and I have a question.

If Jesus was always part of a trinity even before he came to earth. Wouldn’t that ruin the discussion on the humanity of Jesus saying he was begotten even before Mary was even alive?

 

[porthos11]

1. Nothing in discussion is dangerously in error

It is dangerously in error if the notion has already been condemned by ecumenical councils and contrary to scripture. This is the old Arian heresy and was already under discussion 1,700 years ago and has been closed by the first Council of Nicea.

1. Unlike the above posters just copy and pasted scripture, I decided to look it up and did some research and I have a question.

If Jesus was always part of a trinity even before he came to earth. Wouldn’t that ruin the discussion on the humanity of Jesus saying he was begotten even before Mary was even alive?

Why should it? Jesus was fully God and fully Man. He couldn’t be fully God if he were not eternal, for that would mean there was a time when he wasn’t. But if there was a time when he was not, then he couldn’t be God, and that would be contrary to his claims in Scripture. When he became man, he took upon himself a human nature but didn’t at any time cease to be God.

Jesus was eternally begotten of the Father, but in time, became incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man.