Why did God not reveal Himself explicitly as a Trinity in the Old Testament?

[Bezant]

I know the Visitation of Abraham, for example, would point to a “foreshadowing” of the Trinity, but this is not an explicit revelation, especially compared with the repetitious “I am one” line. Really, you could not gather the Trinity exists without the New Testament.

Why did God not reveal himself explicitly as a Trinity in the Old Testament?

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Well, consider how many Trinitarian heresies have developed in the age of the Church, even with centuries of solid Jewish monotheism in the background, the little hints at the Trinity that were given gradually in the Old Testament, and Greek philosophy to help make some sense out of difficult subjects. Imagine how much more confusion would have ensued if the Trinity had been explicitly revealed before all these things were fully developed, say during the era when so many Jews were falling into idolatry in the First Temple period.

It seems God opted to first work on simple monotheism with the Jews, (again, with a few hints like the vistation of Abraham, perhaps the “Angel of the Lord”, perhaps even the name Elohim, and later writings about Wisdom and the Holy Spirit, so that in retrospect the doctrine of the Trinity wouldn’t seem to have come out of nothing) and philosophy among the Greeks (which also sometimes tended towards more or less monotheistic conclusions), then hit us with great mysteries like Trinity and Incarnation once we had enough background to avoid simplistic misunderstandings of them like Tritheism or thinking of Jesus as a demigod.

 

[GloriousOrder]

Well, to be honest the Trinity is very strongly hinted at. Perhaps the terms needed to be clarified by our Lord, but the structure was pretty clear. It’s a shame we human beings are rather big thickos most of the time.

In Psalms 103:30 and 50:13 (Catholic numbering), the Psalmist speaks of God ‘sending forth’ and ‘taking away’ His ‘holy spirit’. Obviously we know Genesis’ famous line in the beginning, that the holy Spirit of God hovered over formless waters and the void. Genesis 1:26 directly teaches that God is a plurality of persons. The holy and blessed prophet Isaiah says (35:4) that “God Himself will come and save you”, coming in the sense that a leader, warrior, or family member ventures forth.

Perhaps it’s not as ‘explicit’ as you want, but Christ our Lord doesn’t make every last detail explicit. Look deep into the roots of the Old Testament and the New Covenant. Both are of the same God, and the overwhelming message is that we must trust in the Father Everlasting. Our love, our life, and our light is faith in God, the Lord of Ages and Ancient of Days. This is Christ’s entire message: not that we must believe This Doctrine or That Dogma about the Trinity, but that we must come to God in all things at all times like innocent children, with joy and blessing His just judgments.

I don’t think Jesus Christ our Lord was particularly interested in revealing the private things of God. The blessed Trinity is not a thing to be known and studied in a laboratory. We don’t have to know the details, just the general fact of eternal relationship within the Godhead. This is pretty clear and obvious in the Old Testament.

 

[agent_grey]

Simple… God has not revealed himself in the Old Testament. God is one not 3. God has revealed himslef to each and every one of us through the human conscience. The healthy human conscience is at odds with the God invented by man in the old testament.

The man of God rejects at the very least parts of the old testament and therefor rejects any religion that teaches the entire old testament as the word of God.

Just read it. you will find there is nothing Holy about the so called God of the old testament.

 

[Bezant]

Well, consider how many Trinitarian heresies have developed in the age of the Church, even with centuries of solid Jewish monotheism in the background, the little hints at the Trinity that were given gradually in the Old Testament, and Greek philosophy to help make some sense out of difficult subjects. Imagine how much more confusion would have ensued if the Trinity had been explicitly revealed before all these things were fully developed, say during the era when so many Jews were falling into idolatry in the First Temple period

It seems God opted to first work on simple monotheism with the Jews, (again, with a few hints like the vistation of Abraham, perhaps the “Angel of the Lord”, perhaps even the name Elohim, and later writings about Wisdom and the Holy Spirit, so that in retrospect the doctrine of the Trinity wouldn’t seem to have come out of nothing) and philosophy among the Greeks (which also sometimes tended towards more or less monotheistic conclusions), then hit us with great mysteries like Trinity and Incarnation once we had enough background to avoid simplistic misunderstandings of them like Tritheism or thinking of Jesus as a demigod.

I think that the most logical and common argument I’ve heard so far, although my problem is that it casts a bit of deceptiveness on God’s part. There is one matter, not revealing the extent of one’s true nature, there is another matter, requiring strict monotheism to revealing ‘polytheistic-ish’ monothesim (can’t find a better word for it…).

With elohim I’ve also heard it argued that ‘culture affects language, rather than the other way around.’ That’s to say, “elohim” is just linguistic residue, from times when the Jews dabbled with polytheism/lived in Gentile nations.

That argument and, elohim is not the only word in the Hebrew language that “shouldn’t” be plural.

 

[Bezant]

Simple… God has not revealed himself in the Old Testament. God is one not 3. God has revealed himslef to each and every one of us through the human conscience. The healthy human conscience is at odds with the God invented by man in the old testament.
The man of God rejects at the very least parts of the old testament and therefor rejects any religion that teaches the entire old testament as the word of God.
Just read it. you will find there is nothing Holy about the so called God of the old testament.

Your response is too heretical for my taste.

 

[Bezant]

Well, to be honest the Trinity is very strongly hinted at. Perhaps the terms needed to be clarified by our Lord, but the structure was pretty clear. It’s a shame we human beings are rather big thickos most of the time.

LOL , but if the hints were that strong they would have been clear from around the first Acension Day onward. Christology and Trinitarian doctrine preoccupied the Church for quite a while, as a previous poster pointed out.

In Psalms 103:30 and 50:13 (Catholic numbering), the Psalmist speaks of God ‘sending forth’ and ‘taking away’ His ‘holy spirit’. Obviously we know Genesis’ famous line in the beginning, that the holy Spirit of God hovered over formless waters and the void.

But without the NT, how are we to know that?

Genesis 1:26 directly teaches that God is a plurality of persons.

No, it’s quite vague.

It’s not clear from the text who ‘us’ includes. Is the Father consulting the Son and the Holy Ghost? They’re not mentioned here. Is he speaking to the angels? They’re not mentioned here either. Is God just speaking stylistically?

The holy and blessed prophet Isaiah says (35:4) that “God Himself will come and save you”, coming in the sense that a leader, warrior, or family member ventures forth.

But God was a saviour many times before that prophecy; in Egypt, in the desert, in the Flood. Why would that line strongly hint he would come down as the Son, when he had never done so before?

Perhaps it’s not as ‘explicit’ as you want, but Christ our Lord doesn’t make every last detail explicit. Look deep into the roots of the Old Testament and the New Covenant. Both are of the same God, and the overwhelming message is that we must trust in the Father Everlasting.

Yes.

Our love, our life, and our light is faith in God, the Lord of Ages and Ancient of Days. This is Christ’s entire message: not that we must believe This Doctrine or That Dogma about the Trinity, but that we must come to God in all things at all times like innocent children, with joy and blessing His just judgments.

I don’t think Jesus Christ our Lord was particularly interested in revealing the private things of God. The blessed Trinity is not a thing to be known and studied in a laboratory. We don’t have to know the details, just the general fact of eternal relationship within the Godhead. This is pretty clear and obvious in the Old Testament.

I agree, in a sense; the Bible is not a textbook. But it is important to be clear on these things.

 

[plaintruth]

‘trinity’ is description made by the organized church after JC. i think what you really mean to ask is the description of God being singular and plural - if it is already presented in the OT.

We all know that there is only ‘one’ God, but God being plural , or referring himself to be more than one was already there since Genesis 1.

Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

when we say God is one, or only one GOD we should not limit defining GOD in terms of numbers just like what others believe. we can only accept in humility what the bible tells us who God is, that He is One, yet He is many (Father, Son, & Spirit). it cannot fit any human mathematical equation. that is why God is God, and the modern term to describe it as ‘Trinity’ is in itself a mystery.

imagine a square circle, difficult isn’t it cause it breaks human logic/laws of what is correct. how can a square be a circle at the same time? the Trinity in itself is like that. not simply saying that God is ‘three in one’. the more correct is 'three and one at the same time. why, because the bible presents God this way.

I know the Visitation of Abraham, for example, would point to a “foreshadowing” of the Trinity, but this is not an explicit revelation, especially compared with the repetitious “I am one” line. Really, you could not gather the Trinity exists without the New Testament.

Why did God not reveal himself explicitly as a Trinity in the Old Testament?

 

[AmericanMuslim]

The man of God rejects at the very least parts of the old testament and therefor rejects any religion that teaches the entire old testament as the word of God.

He does? I must let all my Jewish friends know this

 

[PJM]

=Bezant;8065024]I know the Visitation of Abraham, for example, would point to a “foreshadowing” of the Trinity, but this is not an explicit revelation, especially compared with the repetitious “I am one” line. Really, you could not gather the Trinity exists without the New Testament.

Why did God not reveal himself explicitly as a Trinity in the Old Testament?

two points: God did not because the Jews were having problems ACCETING and Obeing One God. It was simplty to sublime; too profound for there level of understanding.

Second: The Trinity is revealed discreetly in the Creation Story. READ about it at the
agapebiblestudy.com site.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Wesley7]

Why did God not reveal Himself explicitly as a Trinity in the Old Testament?

Maybe it was not His plan to reveal himself as Trinity until the historic council of Nicaea.

 

[Wesley7]

Simple… God has not revealed himself in the Old Testament. God is one not 3. God has revealed himslef to each and every one of us through the human conscience. The healthy human conscience is at odds with the God invented by man in the old testament.

The man of God rejects at the very least parts of the old testament and therefor rejects any religion that teaches the entire old testament as the word of God.

Just read it. you will find there is nothing Holy about the so called God of the old testament.

You might need to be placed under a preliminary anathema hearing.

 

[Wesley7]

Simple… God has not revealed himself in the Old Testament. God is one not 3. God has revealed himslef to each and every one of us through the human conscience. The healthy human conscience is at odds with the God invented by man in the old testament.

The man of God rejects at the very least parts of the old testament and therefor rejects any religion that teaches the entire old testament as the word of God.

Just read it. you will find there is nothing Holy about the so called God of the old testament.

You need to be placed under a preliminary anathema hearing.

 

[Wesley7]

Simple… God has not revealed himself in the Old Testament. God is one not 3. God has revealed himslef to each and every one of us through the human conscience. The healthy human conscience is at odds with the God invented by man in the old testament.

The man of God rejects at the very least parts of the old testament and therefor rejects any religion that teaches the entire old testament as the word of God.

Just read it. you will find there is nothing Holy about the so called God of the old testament.

Shouldn’t you be banned by now? . .

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Simple… God has not revealed himself in the Old Testament. God is one not 3. God has revealed himslef to each and every one of us through the human conscience. The healthy human conscience is at odds with the God invented by man in the old testament.

The man of God rejects at the very least parts of the old testament and therefor rejects any religion that teaches the entire old testament as the word of God.

Just read it. you will find there is nothing Holy about the so called God of the old testament.

Hmmm. Are you some kind of Marcionite, then? Why would you call yourself an “Orthodox Catholic” if you don’t believe in orthodox Catholicism?

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I think that the most logical and common argument I’ve heard so far, although my problem is that it casts a bit of deceptiveness on God’s part. There is one matter, not revealing the extent of one’s true nature, there is another matter, requiring strict monotheism to revealing ‘polytheistic-ish’ monothesim (can’t find a better word for it…).

With elohim I’ve also heard it argued that ‘culture affects language, rather than the other way around.’ That’s to say, “elohim” is just linguistic residue, from times when the Jews dabbled with polytheism/lived in Gentile nations.

That argument and, elohim is not the only word in the Hebrew language that “shouldn’t” be plural.

What is deceptive about how God revealed Himself in the Old Testament? He revealed that He is one, and so He is. We Trinitarian Christians believe in a single God, a simple, indivisible divine Being, not three gods or a god who is divisible into thirds. We are strict monotheists like the Jews, not “polytheistic-ish” monotheists, like some interpretations of some pagan religions.

With regard to the word “elohim”, remember that God is the master of history and can bring things about through natural providence. The evolution of the word may have nothing to do with any revealed truth about a plurality of divine Persons, but it was still the will of God that this common Hebrew word for Him be oddly plural. In retrospect, after the revelation that God is a Trinity of Persons, this can be seen as a hint at something the people at the time could not have guessed.