Why did Jesus ask for the chalice to pass him?

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falcogreg

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Just before His Passion, Jesus prayed 3 times to His Father and asked that the chalice be passed. In all instances, he stated that it is your will (Father), not mine. As we know, Jesus then went on to lay down his life for ours.

I am wondering why Jesus did this. Surely he knew what His Father’s answer would be. He knew he was sent here specifically for that purpose. So, I think He had another reason for doing this. Was is to let us know we can petition the Father but, in the end, His will be done? Was it to show how He understood how frightening it was to go through with His passion but wanted to let us know our Father would always be there for us? Any other ideas? Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg
 
Excellent question! I hope someone can answer in a way that I can understand. Sort of like how I can’t quite grasp why He said, “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?”, I know it was in the Psalms & there was a reason He said it but I don’t quite understand.
 
One of the better understandings I’ve heard is this. Jesus came Incarnate yet remained fully God. The eternal, omnipresent God, took finite human form, which would be like us taking the form of an immobile statue after having been free to roam and talk and laugh. Yet His divinity never left Him at any moment. Often times, submitting Himself to the human experience (such as with the passing of the cup or “Why have you forsaken” incidents), Jesus would rely upon only His humanity even thought His divinity remained present.

As to why He did this at these times, I think largely it demonstrates His love for us, that He was willing to go through such suffering to save us from sin, that we know we have a God Who has been there and done that when we cry in suffering.
 
I also think He prayed this prayer in order to demonsrate that He wasn’t desirous of suffering for its own sake or anything. Quite the opposite, His suffering was something to be endured as a means to an end, and clearly He saw suffering as only a blessing in those cases where it achieves some holy purpose - and that if that purpose can be achieved by other means it is preferable to do so.

Otherwise some of us might get the wrong idea about suffering, that it is good for its own sake or good in all situations and so on.
 
Excellent question! I hope someone can answer in a way that I can understand. Sort of like how I can’t quite grasp why He said, “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?”, I know it was in the Psalms & there was a reason He said it but I don’t quite understand.
Easy - Jesus took on himself not only all the sin of the world, but all the consequences of that sin. Including death. Including the sense we get at times that God has abandoned us or is far from us. Not that that feeling is true, of course God never abandons any of us, and He did not abandon Jesus either. But we certainly all have that feeling at times, no?
 
The biggest thing I get out of moments such as this in Jesus life, especially in the Garden, is that Jesus was human and had emotions. The first time I realized that it was an epiphany type moment. Jesus was fully human and truly felt terror, physical pain, agony and much more. This isn’t to say that in His divinity Jesus does not feel emotions but I think we often see it that way. God knows our emotions, how could he not - he made them. As Jesus he felt these as a human. I know I’m being repetitive but it just seems so odd to me even though I’ve been contemplating it for several weeks now.

In the Garden, Jesus was truly terrified and didn’t want to go through his Passion but knew it was right. He was asking God to find another way even though he knew there was no other way. The pain and fear didn’t necessarily go away when he went ahead with his Passion - it is a ‘it was worth a try’ moment.
 
Easy - Jesus took on himself not only all the sin of the world, but all the consequences of that sin. Including death. Including the sense we get at times that God has abandoned us or is far from us. Not that that feeling is true, of course God never abandons any of us, and He did not abandon Jesus either. But we certainly all have that feeling at times, no?
True, but I guess I was looking at it from His Divinity side instead of His human side. I had looked at it from He absolutely knew his Father was there for Him so why feel He was forsaken when He knew it was something that He had to do (& I don’t mean that to diminish in any way what He went thru).
 
Just before His Passion, Jesus prayed 3 times to His Father and asked that the chalice be passed. In all instances, he stated that it is your will (Father), not mine. As we know, Jesus then went on to lay down his life for ours.

I am wondering why Jesus did this. Surely he knew what His Father’s answer would be. He knew he was sent here specifically for that purpose. So, I think He had another reason for doing this. Was is to let us know we can petition the Father but, in the end, His will be done? Was it to show how He understood how frightening it was to go through with His passion but wanted to let us know our Father would always be there for us? Any other ideas? Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg
I think the simpest answer is that he was afraid. Jesus was fully man and knew what he was about to go through. Wouldnt you be afraid?
 
Originally by estesbob
I think the simpest answer is that he was afraid. Jesus was fully man and knew what he was about to go through. Wouldnt you be afraid?
Of course I would be! However, I don’t think it was merely because He was afraid. I believe there is more to it than that. Jesus did everything for a reason. There was always a purpose, a meaning to His actions. I feel there was something He was trying to tell us by this action.
 
The Son of Man was showing us he knew how much this was going to hurt.
 
Just before His Passion, Jesus prayed 3 times to His Father and asked that the chalice be passed. In all instances, he stated that it is your will (Father), not mine. As we know, Jesus then went on to lay down his life for ours.

I am wondering why Jesus did this. Surely he knew what His Father’s answer would be. He knew he was sent here specifically for that purpose. So, I think He had another reason for doing this. Was is to let us know we can petition the Father but, in the end, His will be done? Was it to show how He understood how frightening it was to go through with His passion but wanted to let us know our Father would always be there for us? Any other ideas? Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg
You have identified an interesting issue regarding the emotional state of Jesus prior to the Crucifixion. One can see the differences by comparing each of the Gospels, especially John with the Synoptics. In the Synoptic Gospels, particularly in Mark, one can see how troubled and in agony Jesus was, from when He was praying in the garden until He expired. In the garden, He was “troubled and distressed”, he said His soul was “sorrowful even to death”. He asked that “if it were possible the hour might pass by him”.

Jesus says just a few words to Pilate in the Synoptics. On the Cross, he also says very little. In Mark He cries out in a loud voice: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” In Luke His words are: “Father, into your hands I commend my spirit”.

The synoptics appear to show a very human side to Jesus. He is in distress and agony, he prays “fervently that his sweat became like drops of blood falling on the ground”, he prays three times that God will spare Him from the Cross. He says very little to the authorities, and appears to be cowed by all those lined up against Him. In a word, He acts like a man about to be executed and knows it will be painful and that he will die a horrible death.

In John, there is no agony in the garden, and Jesus does not pray to the Father for himself. He has a dialogue with Pilate, in essence challenging him and proclaiming His kingdom. While on the cross, Jesus talks to others and acts as if He is in control.

In reading the agony in the garden as described by Mark, one gets the feeling that, as he approached his crucifixion, Jesus was very human. He was thinking of the physical pain and suffering that He knew He would experience. Any person in that situation would go through the same agonizing emotions, even if one knew that they would be with God shortly after. The fears inherent in the human side of Jesus were overwhelming the divine side in these moments.

What does this tell me? That John had a different viewpoint than Mark and the other Gospel writers did about the nature of Jesus at that time. John viewed Jesus as one with God the Father from creation forward; Jesus was completely divine all the time He was among us. So John’s view of the Passion was of Jesus as above it all, in charge of His fate, with not a word of pain or agony in John’s description of the Passion. For how could God feel physical pain? The Synoptic Gospel writers have a much different point of view, stressing the human nature of Jesus over the divine during His Passion.

The Church resolved this dichotomy by defining the idea of the dual nature of Jesus, which was a big arguing point for a few hundred years. When you read early Church history and compare the earlier Apostle’s Creed with the later Nicene Creed, you can see the evolution of the Church’s position on the nature of Christ, and that the theology of John won out over that of Mark, so that the divine nature of Jesus trumps the human one. And then we mix together the differing renditions of the Passion to make it one homogenous story. Which is why we end up confused about the agony in the garden and Jesus’ prayer to “let the cup pass by Him” that we find in the Synoptic Gospels.
 
Just before His Passion, Jesus prayed 3 times to His Father and asked that the chalice be passed. In all instances, he stated that it is your will (Father), not mine. As we know, Jesus then went on to lay down his life for ours.

I am wondering why Jesus did this. Surely he knew what His Father’s answer would be. He knew he was sent here specifically for that purpose. So, I think He had another reason for doing this. Was is to let us know we can petition the Father but, in the end, His will be done? Was it to show how He understood how frightening it was to go through with His passion but wanted to let us know our Father would always be there for us? Any other ideas? Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg
This is my opinion and nothing more. Jesus was fully human and fully divine. 100% both ways. I have always felt that in praying that the chalice be passed, the human side of Jesus was hoping that there was some way for the ordeal He was to face might not be necessary, and might be able to be accomplished in some other way. Yet, even in that trying time, He was willing to submit to the will of the Father.

On the cross I think the cry of anguish was just that, a heartfelt cry of painful desolation in that last second. A desolation not only His, but that of the entire world and the entire human race, past, present and future. The suffering and pain of billions of people and their collective sins and guilt laid upon his heart in that last agonizing moment.

As to why He said it, I think it is simple. At that last second He felt truly and totally alone, the same way that we all do. He showed us in glaring naked detail His humanity and His love for us by experiencing the isolation, pain and fear that we all feel…

My opinion.
 
Excellent question! I hope someone can answer in a way that I can understand. Sort of like how I can’t quite grasp why He said, “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?”, I know it was in the Psalms & there was a reason He said it but I don’t quite understand.
He was quoting Psalm 22, which was a prophecy of his death, but ends on a triumphant note. Think of it like quoting the Rolling Stones’ “You Can’t Always Get What you Want,” implicitly knowing that the next line is “but sometimes, you get what you need,” if that helps.
 
Chauncy, you come so close but disappoint. Again, you have this disturbing way of explaining things that sounds as if God were detached from Church history and things just came to be based on human power struggles. That is a scary attitude and I hope you pray about it from time to time.

The fact is that we know from revelation that Jesus was BOTH fully human and fully God. Yes, that is a mystery in that we can’t comprehend it entirely or our puny human minds would explode. There is no competition between views, there is a full explanation of BOTH realities.

The agony in the garden is most certainly a situation in which Jesus’ full humanness is displayed. It is NOT a contradiction with the strong Jesus shown in John’s gospel, just a reflection of the fact that each is the testimony of a different witness. Ask any cop, witness testimony is heavily shaped by the emotional mindset of the witness. It’s TRUE testimony, but getting it from multiple persons helps fill in the gaps in perception and memory and frame of reference.

How would ANY human react when faced with imminent torture and death? FEAR! What are we supposed to do with our fears? Take them to God in prayer. Jesus showed us exactly how to behave when our inevitable fears rise up and the situation seems impossible.

As humans, we can learn from this lesson that we can never expect to love God heroically easily. It takes faith and sometimes requires what we REALLY do not want to do. Ask a combat veteran what courage is. Contrary to what some believe, it is NOT being unafraid. It is doing what it takes to complete the mission and not let down your friends. It is NOT fearlessness that makes a man charge a machine gun nest. It is the determined recognition that it will kill him AND all his friends if he doesn’t do something about it. Same thing for Jesus in the garden. Being fully divine did not excuse him from going through the fully human parts.

Offhand, other examples are when he wept over the death of Lazarus, wept for Jerusalem, and his last words on the cross.
 
Just found this, by Blessed Columba Marmion:

II. THE SORROWFUL MYSTERIES
  1. The Agony in the Garden
It is for the love of His Father above all else that Jesus willed to undergo His Passion.

Behold Jesus Christ in His agony. For three long hours weariness, grief, fear and anguish sweep in upon His soul like a torrent; the pressure of this interior agony is so immense that blood bursts forth from His sacred veins. What an abyss of suffering is reached in this agony! **And what does Jesus say to His Father? “Father, if it be possible, let this chalice pass from Me.” Can it be that Jesus no longer accepts the Will of His Father? Oh! certainly He does. But this prayer is the cry of the sensitive emotions of poor human nature, crushed by ignominy and suffering. Now is Jesus truly a “Man of Sorrows.” Our Savior feels the terrible weight of His agony bearing down upon His shoulders. He wants us to realize this; that is why He utters such a prayer.

But listen to what He immediately adds: “Nevertheless, Father, not My will but Thine be done.” Here is the triumph of love. Because He loves His Father, He places the Will of His Father above everything else and accepts every possible suffering in order to redeem us.**

👍
 
Because of His Hypostatic Union, Jesus was both God and Man.

He, “wearing his human hat”, was not wildly enthusiastic about being tortured to death.
 
The biggest thing I get out of moments such as this in Jesus life, especially in the Garden, is that Jesus was human and had emotions. The first time I realized that it was an epiphany type moment. Jesus was fully human and truly felt terror, physical pain, agony and much more. This isn’t to say that in His divinity Jesus does not feel emotions but I think we often see it that way. God knows our emotions, how could he not - he made them. As Jesus he felt these as a human. I know I’m being repetitive but it just seems so odd to me even though I’ve been contemplating it for several weeks now.

In the Garden, Jesus was truly terrified and didn’t want to go through his Passion but knew it was right. He was asking God to find another way even though he knew there was no other way. The pain and fear didn’t necessarily go away when he went ahead with his Passion - it is a ‘it was worth a try’ moment.
I have to agree with the above opinion - I think that’s what I had been taught anyway. Jesus knew what He was about to endure. He was the Son of God and had come to earth, taking a human body, and therefore, enduring all the same sufferings and emotions. For those moments in the Garden, Jesus must have seen what was about to happen, and His Human Self (as respectful a term as I can think of) - feared it.

Let’s not forget the many things that Our Lord Jesus endured/experienced during His 33 years on earth - being subject to His earthly parents (God is subject to no one); working as a carpenter (God doesn’t have to work); spending 40 days fasting in the desert (God does not need to do these things - but in His Human Form, Jesus did so - for God’s reasons - He certainly did not need to fast or purify Himself - He was God.) I think Jesus cried when Lazarus died - a simple emotion that we all have upon loss - but then His Divinity appeared when raising Lazarus from the dead. God (to our knowledge) does not have to eat - yet Our Lord did on earth for a lifetime, including the Last Supper – after that He saw the hours ahead, the torture and the Crucifixion, and He sweat blood. I believe Jesus felt all the human emotions and pains we do - during His time on earth - but He was beyond what we are. There was a Divine Nature inside. It’s beyond our understanding - except for what Mel Stones called it - an epiphany type moment. Well said.
 
Because of His Hypostatic Union, Jesus was both God and Man.

He, “wearing his human hat”, was not wildly enthusiastic about being tortured to death.
I can’t imagine His ‘God hat’ was particularly overjoyed at the idea either. 😛
 
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