Why did Jesus fold the Napkins

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NotWorthy said:
OK, any Jewish tradition buffs out there? I got this from a friend of mine. It seems pretty neat. What are your thoughts:
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This passage, seems relevant:​

  • Jhn 13:1 Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart out of this world to the Father, having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.
  • Jhn 13:2 And during supper, when the devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, to betray him,
  • Jhn 13:3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he had come from God and was going to God,
  • Jhn 13:4 rose from supper, laid aside his garments, and girded himself with a towel.
  • Jhn 13:5 Then he poured water into a basin, and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel with which he was girded.
    garment = himation
    towel = lention
IOW, there is a connection between that, &:
  • Jhn 20:1 Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.
  • Jhn 20:2 So she ran, and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him.”
  • Jhn 20:3 Peter then came out with the other disciple, and they went toward the tomb.
  • Jhn 20:4 They both ran, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first;
  • Jhn 20:5 and stooping to look in, he saw the linen cloths lying there, but he did not go in.
  • Jhn 20:6 Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; he saw the linen cloths lying,
  • Jhn 20:7 and the napkin, which had been on his head, not lying with the linen cloths but rolled up in a place by itself.
  • Jhn 20:8 Then the other disciple, who reached the tomb first, also went in, and he saw and believed;
  • Jhn 20:9 for as yet they did not know the scripture, that he must rise from the dead.
  • Jhn 20:10 Then the disciples went back to their homes.
    a linen cloth = othonion
    napkin = soudarion
The objects named are not the same, but they are alike in significant ways. John has a lot to say about water, whether or not in connection with blood, wine, spirit, word, & stone things (such as the Temple). Which have connections with the Liturgy. See also Ezekiel 47 & John 7.38.
 
NotWorthy said:
OK, any Jewish tradition buffs out there? I got this from a friend of mine. It seems pretty neat. What are your thoughts:
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Thank you Not Worthy, what an excellent post. And yes He is not yet done, because He is coming back for the rest of us.
GraceAngel.
 
NotWorthy said:
OK, any Jewish tradition buffs out there? I got this from a friend of mine. It seems pretty neat. What are your thoughts:
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My pastor spoke about this awhile back.He said that he did this because Jesus was a carpenter by trade before He started his ministry and when He was working as a carpenter and the work was completed the carpenter would fold his handkerchief as a sign that the work was completed. Remember on the cross He said, It is finished!
 
Is there any written records of this practice? IT seems odd to me, that this would be the symbol to show that a piece of carpentry was completed. I’ve seen it mentioned on a few blogs and websites, but they all seem to be copying word for word one original post. ANd your interpetation, rather viewing it as a sign that Jesus would return, seems to indicate that there’s nothing left to do.
 
Valke2 said:
Is there any written records of this practice? IT seems odd to me, that this would be the symbol to show that a piece of carpentry was completed. I’ve seen it mentioned on a few blogs and websites, but they all seem to be copying word for word one original post. ANd your interpetation, rather viewing it as a sign that Jesus would return, seems to indicate that there’s nothing left to do.
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Its a lovely story but like you, I would like some first century proof that this was a Jewish practice.

I always thought that Jesus was just a tidy person.🤷 🙂 I wonder if I can use this story to get the three guys in my home to clean up better after themselves. “See, Jesus remembered to fold his burial linens and you can’t even remember to put your bowl of cereal up.”😛
 
I saw this article about a month ago, did a little research then…seemed unpersuasive to me.

The article’s based on the King James version of John 20:7, and depends a good bit on the English words napkin, and folded.
The word napkin shows up 3 times in the whole KJV:
Luke 19:20
And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
John 11:44
And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
John 20:7
And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
It’s a translation of σουδάριον, soudarion, a Greek word with the following Bible meanings (per Strong’s Concordance):

1) a handkerchief

2) a cloth for wiping perspiration from the face and for cleaning the nose and also used in swathing the head of a corpse

Notice in none of the 3 occasions napkin is used in the KJV does it have anything to do with eating or mealtime (nor do Strong’s definitions). Later translations than the KJV (I checked about half a dozen) don’t say napkin anywhere, since its use in the KJV is now archaic, and its modern association with mealtime can be confusing.

Now, folded is intended to translate the Greek word ἐντυλίσσω, entylisso, which has the following Bible meaning:

to roll up, wrap together.

In the KJV NT it’s used only 3 times:
  1. Matt 27:59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he* wrapped* it in a clean linen cloth…
  2. Luke 23:53 And he took it down, and *wrapped *it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
  3. John 20:7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
In no case does the online KJV I searched substitute the word fold for wrap. About half of the later translations say fold here; the others say wrap or roll up.

The NT KJV does say *fold *once, by the way, here:

Heb 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

The word the KJV is translating is ἑλίσσω, helisso, which isn’t really the Greek word for *fold, *anyway (it’s diplomo).

Helisso and entylisso are related, they have the same root meaning of rolling or twisting, which is like our Greek loanword helix. So even the Greek word the KJV translates as fold has rolling or twisting as its base meaning. As it turns out, later translations don’t say folded, but rather *rolled up. *My guess is the KJV team used *fold *since people in their day (and ours) would fold clothes, not roll them up; but later translators used *rolled up *to stay closer to the Greek verb.

So the whole business in the email about folding napkins at mealtime and the second coming is made up as far as I can tell.

The only significance I know of regarding the rolled up headcloth is that it shows Jesus’ body was not hurriedly snatched by robbers, e.g, see *Exposition of the Old and New Testaments *(1708–1710) by Matthew Henry:

“The grave-clothes were found in very good order, which serves for an evidence that his body was not stolen away while men slept. Robbers of tombs have been known to take away the clothes and leave the body; but none ever took away the body and left the clothes, especially when it was fine linen and new. Anyone would rather choose to carry a dead body in its clothes than naked. Or, if those that were supposed to have stolen it would have left the grave-clothes behind, yet it cannot be supposed they should find leisure to fold up the linen.”
 
kkolwitz,

Good work! As the OP, I threw this article up to see if anyone had heard of it. I can only speak for myself, but it looks like you are right. This story seems to be an urban legend.
 
NotWorthy said:
kkolwitz,

Good work! As the OP, I threw this article up to see if anyone had heard of it. I can only speak for myself, but it looks like you are right. This story seems to be an urban legend.
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too bad, it’s a cool story though.
 
After reading this thread, I got thinking.

It looks like in the tomb one or more of the cloths were neatly folded, and the other not? If there were any symbolism to it surely all would be one way or the other.
 
LilyM said:
After reading this thread, I got thinking.

It looks like in the tomb one or more of the cloths were neatly folded, and the other not? If there were any symbolism to it surely all would be one way or the other.
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Then Simon Peter arrived, following him, and went into the tomb; and he saw the linen cloths (othonia) lying there, and the face cloth (soudarion), which had been around His head, not lying with the strips of linen cloth but rolled up (entetyligmenon=entylisso, “roll up” “wind up” or “entwine”) in a place by itself.

1.) I think there is a contrast here between Jesus and Lazarus. The raised Lazarus comes out of the tomb still in his grave clothes, with his soudarion still around his head. The risen Jesus meanwhile bears no such trappings; the disciples find it, and the tomb, empty, with the soudarion rolled up in a place by itself no less!

2.) The verb entylisso is in the passive tense (“had been rolled up”), suggesting a Divine act at work.
 
What is the real meaning of the folded napkin. I read different versions on this???
 
DarlaD said:
What is the real meaning of the folded napkin. I read different versions on this???
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It wasn’t really a “napkin.” It was a towel; the type you use to wipe sweat from your face.

Why does St. John mention the rolled up towel?

If you’ve ever been to a police interrogation, you know they ask you to tell them everything you observed. St. John was a witness to the Resurrection, and he’s recording everything he remembers from the incident. The rolled up towel is one of the details that adds credibility to his narrative.

We can contemplate why the towel was rolled up, but I’m not convinced it’s central to the Resurrection.

Did one of the women who earlier visited the tomb roll the towel up, intending to take it with her, and when she was startled by the angels, drop it?

Did the angels roll it up?

Did Our Divine Lord?

We don’t know, and I doubt it’s going to be the first thing on our minds when we meet the Good Lord.
 
Hi everybody;

This is what I’ve been able to come up in my reasearch.

Like many are, this idea is falsely based on a western application of an English term: in this case, the term, “napkin” in the text. When English speakers use that term, we’re thinking Wendy’s drive-thru. Using the English understanding of that term, a scenario was obviously invented. The underlying Greek term is soudarion, which is defined as a piece of cloth used for one of two purposes in the East: to wipe sweat off the face or to cover the face of the dead. As such, no self-respecting Jew would EVER use such an article at a meal setting (it would be either unclean or in the least thought of as unclean), and thus no such mental association would ever be made between the soudarion (or lit. “sweat-cloth”) and a dinner napkin. It would be tantamount to modern day people associating a diaper with a napkin. Only a few (older) translation use the term “napkin” for this reason. It is a technically proper translation, but gives a western reader the wrong impression. More modern translations use other terms, such as “burial cloth” (NIV), “face-cloth” (NASB), “handkerchief” (NKJV), etc.

The second problem is with the term “folded,” also necessary to the postulated cultural reference of folding a napkin at the dinner table. That underlying Greek term is entylisso, which is a compilation of two terms, en (meaning “at a primary fixed position” – or “at,” “in,” “among,” etc.) and heilisso, meaning “twisted” or “coiled.” While “folded” is again a technically accurate translation, it conjures up the idea of the creasing and flattening out of an article. In fact, it is more akin to the wadding up and throwing aside (used in the supposed practice of the master leaving the table) than an intentional folding and creasing. This issue may could be explained away if it were not for the problems with the term soudarion. But, coupled together, it’s just another hole in the cheese. Entylisso gives no clear indication that the face-cloth was folded in an intentional way, but rather that it was somehow handled and distorted as being discarded separately from the grave clothes.

I have a sizeable arsenal of Jewish background resources. I searched them all to find a reference to this practice and could not find it. Afterward, I set off in research online. Surely you can’t believe everything you read online (as this email demonstrates) but I thought it worth a try to find a legitimate biblical scholar who may have referenced the custom. As it turned out, I found only one Jewish scholar (David Bivin of The Jewish Perspective) who had referenced this custom (of folding the napkin at the dinner table) and he did so in response to this very email. His answer? “There is no historical or cultural documentation which supports claims of this assertion.”

Sadly, you can find this reference in numerous online sermons by pastors who should know better than to randomly quote a tradition they learned of in an email from Aunt Erma.

Make no mistake: Jesus is returning. But, not because someone had the creative ability to fabricate this outlandish email. He is returning because scripture says he will.
 
Good work, Giancarlo!

Although, admittedly, it is a cool story, I really had my doubts.

This fabrication reminds me of the “eye of the needle” story that told of the camel having to have all its possessions removed and crawl through a gate (in Jerusalem called “the needle”) on its knees. This demonstrated the rich man having to pass through the eye of the needle. Again, cool analogy, but not true nonetheless.
 
NotWorthy said:
OK, any Jewish tradition buffs out there? I got this from a friend of mine. It seems pretty neat. What are your thoughts:
Click to expand...
Not a jewish tradition buff, but.
I argue that nobody folds napkin sized cloths and leaves a 14 foot long length of linen in a heap. So I say that the ‘napkin’ or the ‘cloth that covered His head’ was actually the long 14 foot length shroud, as, it was wrapped about His body by laying the body along the length of the shroud with the feet near the end of the shroud and wrapping the front of the shroud over His head to cover the front of the body. So the long shroud becomes the cloth which covered His head or went around His head or the cloth which was over His head. There may have been additional cloths covering the shrouded figure over that again which would be discarded in a heap on the ground. The shroud with the image was folded and placed separately in the tomb.
 
Even though there is little or no evidence of the folded napkin custom, I think it is worth considering, the ritual to be either a localized or family custom. It may not have been documented anywhere except in a limited verbal context.

I had a friend whose family had a tradition of covering their plate with a napkin after a meal indicating they were finished…they just always did it. They were Baptist, for whatever thats worth.

The bottom line is, its a neat story, and maybe…
 
quasimodo said:
I’d need to see more proof that this is true.

It sounds about as fishy as the “eye of the needle” being a small gate in Jerusalem that was too small for a camel to pass through unless it were unburdened of its load and on its knees - sounds good but utterly lacking in any historical evidence.

It relies on the use of the Greek word for napkin being the same for both a head covering used at a burial and a cloth used at the dinner table - supposing they used a cloth at the dinner table to begin with.

It could be true, I’ll grant, but it sounds like eisegesis to me.
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I was reading the thread re the shroud of turin and there is some evidence to suggest just that . It was the Last Supper table cloth. Obviously no conclusive but very suggestive. 😊
 
The History channel had a program regarding the shroud of Turin, called “the Real Face of Jesus”. It was a remarkable and painstaking effort to reproduce as close as possible the face on the shroud.
Many creative, technical, and intuitive methods were employed to provide an end result. It was mesmerizing to see a face that very well could have been that of a 33 year old Jewish man. At the end of the program, the face was an animated, but lifelike resconstruction with eyes that opened, soft, gentle, and loving. It was chilling to think the audience may have been actually seeing the face of Jesus.
Fr. Jonathan says it perfectly; “Does my faith hinge on my belief that the shroud is the image of Jesus? No, but I still believe it”.
There are several stories on this on the news available on youtube. The attached link is a static image. The moving animated image, extraordinary.

shroudofturin.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/more-on-the-real-face-of-jesus/
 
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