Why did Jesus have to die?

[Guyonthestreet]

I am thinking about this over lent, and I’m lost for an answer. Couldn’t God simply forgive? Why was it actually necessary to have His Son come to earth in the form of man, and then die for our sins, in order to lay the foundation for the forgiveness of our sins? Why was it even necessary for God to have a Son. He managed for a few thousand years just fine talking to the O.T. prophets. I don’t fully get why Jesus had to die, as opposed to say, teach us and lead a happy life into old age. Why such a vicious, cruel, unnecessary death?

 

[Eucharisted]

Jesus died to show us how much He loves us.

 

[lostandconfused]

While him dying was a show of love and devotion to the welfare of humanity, I feel like its a little difficult to just accept that solely as the whole reason.

I mean, honestly, I think thats a little ridiculous. Laying down your life for someone is really a true act of love, but Jesus is the Son of God, are we really that dense that God had to die just to get our attention? Now, people will say “Yes, we are” but for most if you really sit down and think about it, running yourself off a cliff for someone doesnt help the someone at all. It cant be the only reason, that had to be more to it than that.

I think the best explanation I have ever gotten is this, and it really brings the whole thing together:

The laws of the Torah and the old way of Judaism at the time consisted of the laws. If you broke a law, you made a sacrifice at the Temple to God to atone for it. It may be oil, wheat, a goat, or a whole burnt offering of a bull. But you had to do it to atone for your sins. Quite literally, blood was required for the transgression. When God saw this system slowly breaking down and just not working out anymore, Jesus came and started a revolution. He called the pharisees out on their problems, and started preaching a new kingdom to come.

To right all the wrongs of the human race, Jesus was destined as the final sacrifice, the lamb. God sacrificed his only Son for the atonement of humanity’s sins. The final blood was shed, and the new way of doing things, Christianity, was ushered in…a law of love instead of sacrifice. No more long list of laws, no more offerings, no more animals being slain to cover for our own sins.

Yes, He so loves the world that He gave His only Son, but its a part of a much larger, more meaningful picture.

 

[workingman]

I am thinking about this over lent, and I’m lost for an answer. Couldn’t God simply forgive? Why was it actually necessary to have His Son come to earth in the form of man, and then die for our sins, in order to lay the foundation for the forgiveness of our sins? Why was it even necessary for God to have a Son. He managed for a few thousand years just fine talking to the O.T. prophets. I don’t fully get why Jesus had to die, as opposed to say, teach us and lead a happy life into old age. Why such a vicious, cruel, unnecessary death?

The O.T. points to one thing for the most part. The coming of our Lord Jesus Christ as the final atoning sacrifice for our sins. We were not able to pay the debt according to Lavitical law. The system was corrupt.

 

[East_and_West]

While him dying was a show of love and devotion to the welfare of humanity, I feel like its a little difficult to just accept that solely as the whole reason.

I mean, honestly, I think thats a little ridiculous. Laying down your life for someone is really a true act of love, but Jesus is the Son of God, are we really that dense that God had to die just to get our attention? Now, people will say “Yes, we are” but for most if you really sit down and think about it, running yourself off a cliff for someone doesnt help the someone at all. It cant be the only reason, that had to be more to it than that.

According to St. Thomas Aquinas, the universal doctor of the Church, God did not have to redeem us in the way that he did because He is never bound to a particular method, only to his own holiness. However, the sacrifce of Christ was the most perfect way to save us because

1. it demonstrated how much he loves us. Yes, it is true that running off a cliff is not a way to help some one. However, that is not what Christ did. There was no suicide invovled here. Rather, death itself was holding a knife to our souls and Christ said, “take me instead.” When one person offers his or her life on behalf of another person in such a manner, this is a great demonstration of love. Or, take another example, say a man runs into a burning building to save another. In the process of pulling that person out of the burning building the the first person sustains mortal burns. That person dies in service to another and this is a great sign of love. These two examples, although imperfect examples, demonstrate how sacrificings one’s life for another demonstrate love. Similarly Christ, while we were still sinners, died for us and demonstrated the perfection of his love for us. And is so perfect because the immortal one took mortality for us.
2. Christ’s perfect example of obedience unto death, demonstrates to us how we are to walk the path backwards to Eden. It is by disobedience that we have wandered further and further from what God has made us to be. It is by bringing death to that disobedience, by dying to our own fallen desires and being reborn in Christ that we return to God.
3. The fourth reason is that Christ’s sacrificial death was so great and infinite a sacrife, he being God himself, that it purchased more than just the forgiveness of sin, but justifying grace, making us partakers of the divine nature, as St. Peter writes.
4. And lastly, we see the horrible affliction that Sin brought upon our great God and savior, making us realize how wretched our sins our, demonstrating to us all the more that we are bound not to sin, even more so now because we have been granted such grace and love in Christ Jesus.

I think the best explanation I have ever gotten is this, and it really brings the whole thing together:

The laws of the Torah and the old way of Judaism at the time consisted of the laws. If you broke a law, you made a sacrifice at the Temple to God to atone for it. It may be oil, wheat, a goat, or a whole burnt offering of a bull. But you had to do it to atone for your sins. Quite literally, blood was required for the transgression. When God saw this system slowly breaking down and just not working out anymore, Jesus came and started a revolution. He called the pharisees out on their problems, and started preaching a new kingdom to come.

Be careful, this tends towards denyng either his Omniscience or Omnipotence of God.
On the one hand this explanation suggest that God did not know something beforehand, namely that the Old Testament system of sacrifice would not work even though he intended it to work. That is problematic because, first, God knows all and knew how effective the Old Covenant was. He infact never intended it to be the fulfillment of his relationship with man. In his great foreknowledge, God established the Old Covenant to demonstrate that man could NOT return to God without his grace and, also, to foreshadow the New Covenant that he had planned before all ages.This second reason for the establishment of the Old Covenant is connected to the Second reason why your explanation above does not work. Its suggest that God established a covenant that could not work without the ability to know and make a better one ahead of time. But the bible says that God’s word will not return to him without fruit. ,God is capable of all things in his infinite power. God could have established a perfect Covenant like the New Covenant from the begining but did not so that he could demonstrate our absolute dependence on him. Remember “For it is by grace you have been saved by faith; it this gift of God, not by works, so that no man may boast.” - Ephesians 2:8-9

To right all the wrongs of the human race, Jesus was destined as the final sacrifice, the lamb. God sacrificed his only Son for the atonement of humanity’s sins. The final blood was shed, and the new way of doing things, Christianity, was ushered in…a law of love instead of sacrifice. No more long list of laws, no more offerings, no more animals being slain to cover for our own sins.

Yup.

Yes, He so loves the world that He gave His only Son, but its a part of a much larger, more meaningful picture.

Much larger and more meanigful than what? I can’t imagine a more meaningful reason than to demonstrate the depth of his love, to purchase for us the gift of sanctifying grace, and to show us the way back to our God.

 

[East_and_West]

The O.T. points to one thing for the most part. The coming of our Lord Jesus Christ as the final atoning sacrifice for our sins. We were not able to pay the debt according to Lavitical law. The system was corrupt.

How can a system created by God be inheritly corrupt? No, it was not corrupt. It was just not God’s final plan for us. It was not ever intended to save us but rather to demonstrate that we are incapable of saving ourselves.

 

[lostandconfused]

On the one hand this explanation suggest that God did not know something beforehand, namely that the Old Testament system of sacrifice would not work even though he intended it to work. That is problematic because, first, God knows all and knew how effective the Old Covenant was. He infact never intended it to be the fulfillment of his relationship with man.

God’s plan was working, but the fact of the matter is, humans have free will no matter what. A human can make choices. Free will came from the Garden of Eden. God loves us and respects us, and we have the freedom to make choices as His Children. So, people were making the choice to not follow the Law and they just werent doing what they were supposed to. Human beings were failing over and over to be “perfect” and follow the Laws correctly.

Yes, you have a lot of good points about a God that knew everything beforehand, I can see where you are coming from and respect that, but my firm belief is that God is a loving and benevolent Father and Creator who respects and loves His children and respects their free will. And when the old system just wasnt working anymore because humanity just couldnt do it, He made adjustments for His people. Obviously He knew beforehand because there was prophecies about it, but the thing is, if we do truly have free will, then God sees what we’re going to do, and humanity gets a lot of reprieves and help as He changes how things are done.

Yes, like you said, I am sure He had the forethought and everything, but I dont see anything wrong with God setting up a system and then realizing that adjustments are going have to be made. Engineers can know everything about their machine, and when they put it together and test it, they can see what is going on and understand it all, and understand “Oh wow, thats not going to work” and then fix it, they know how it wont work before it even starts not working, but the thing is, its going to have to actually be in motion to truly prove what is going to work and what wont. You still have to test things, even if you know everything there is to know about it. Because even if you engineer something to do what you want it to, it still might need some extra work, it’ll need adjustments. Its got its own free will, and thats the beauty of it.

I truly love the fact that God loves us and works with us, that we are not just puppets, we have free will and we work with God, blessed with His Love and respect.

I really do respect your opinions and understand where youre coming from, but the whole “He set everything up just to demonstrate to humans how much they suck” thing is just harder for me to wrap my head around. I’m coming back to the faith though, I am not as far deep in as you are, and I admire your belief, but I am just explaining, this is how I see it.

 

[simplynoone]

It was not Jesus who was sent to die and he says such.

Matthew 20:
17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,

18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,

19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Jesus was but a prophet; a man.

Matthew 21:
11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

The front of the Book is more than fascinating stories of Old… it is the foundation upon which the NT makes its claims!

 

[ralphinal]

Adam walked with God in the cool of the day, and yet he still sinned. God still desires our love.

Noah spoke with God and was saved from the Flood, yet he still sinned. God still desires our love.

Abraham trusted God in amazing ways, yet he still sinned. God still desires our love.

As time unfolded, God no longer spoke directly to as many people. He set up faith systems and nations, giving the people a king when they wanted it. The people still sinned. God still desires our love.

Finally, when the time was right, Jesus was sent to be the fulfillment of the Law. No longer would an animal need to be slain for forgiveness or to rejoice. That was never God’s intent. No, man could have the same relationship with God as Adam. Something real. All that was required of us is faith. Faith to do what Christ asked of us. Faith to trust in God. Faith to move mountains without having to test to see if we can move mountains with it (Once you test it, it is no longer faith).

WHy did he have to die? To set back creation in the right way. Adam was created pure yet still chose sin. Jesus was pure and never sinned. Adam died as did all his children. Jesus died but was reborn. Physical death is no longer a punishment for our sins, it is a birth into eternal life, as it was for Jesus.

OUr faith in Jesus requires us to believe and to do what he asks of us. It is not enough just to do things. Jesus offered himself freely that we may not need to die.

 

[simplynoone]

Physical death is no longer a punishment for our sins, it is a birth into eternal life, as it was for Jesus.

What is that you do for all of eternity?

 

[ralphinal]

What is that you do for all of eternity?

It depends on where you choose to end up. If you choose heaven, you end up in heaven. If you refuse to accept the mercy of God, you end up in hell.

 

[simplynoone]

It depends on where you choose to end up. If you choose heaven, you end up in heaven. If you refuse to accept the mercy of God, you end up in hell.

Yes, I understand. But specifically, my curiosity touches on what it is you will do in heaven for all of eternity? I do not know though I have looked. Have you given thought to it? I am asking sincerely as I have thought about it. Suddenly, I realized that eternity is a really really really really really really really really … infinitly… really long time. What is it that the Catholics believe when it comes to what they will be doing all of that time in heaven. Baptists (what I grew up in) said that we would worship (literally) before the throne for eternity. I will not lie, that thought scared me more than just ceasing to exist (especiallly with the baptist… no offense to baptists, but well, you would just have had to have grown up to understand how monotone their worship really is). Plus, I do not see that is what God meant by worship. What is it the Catholics believe about eternity? Is it that same view? Worship for all eternity? Then what? I mean… surely at some point, considering, people are going to start losing interest right? Are you afforded a 2nd option? What would that be? When you tired of that, is there another option? I want to know… from one person who believes in going to heaven all of eternity… ***what are you going to be doing for all that time? ***

 

[ralphinal]

Yes, I understand. But specifically, my curiosity touches on what it is you will do in heaven for all of eternity? I do not know though I have looked. Have you given thought to it? I am asking sincerely as I have thought about it. Suddenly, I realized that eternity is a really really really really really really really really … infinitly… really long time. What is it that the Catholics believe when it comes to what they will be doing all of that time in heaven. Baptists (what I grew up in) said that we would worship (literally) before the throne for eternity. I will not lie, that thought scared me more than just ceasing to exist (especiallly with the baptist… no offense to baptists, but well, you would just have had to have grown up to understand how monotone their worship really is). Plus, I do not see that is what God meant by worship. What is it the Catholics believe about eternity? Is it that same view? Worship for all eternity? Then what? I mean… surely at some point, considering, people are going to start losing interest right? Are you afforded a 2nd option? What would that be? When you tired of that, is there another option? I want to know… from one person who believes in going to heaven all of eternity… ***what are you going to be doing for all that time? ***

This is where the lack of theology kills the Baptist position. See, in order to understand heaven for all eternity, you must first understand what is meant by those words.

Heaven is being in the presence of God without human limitations, such as sin and lack of faith. It is a closeness to God that man cannot fully understand on earth.

Eternity is the period after the end of the world. This is the part that gets most people. There is no passage of time in eternity. There is no concept of hours, minutes, years or centuries.

Do not get me wrong, the idea of sitting for ever seems monatonous to me, too. It does not when I stop considering time in the equation. Eternity with God is just like a second on earth.

 

[distracted]

It was not Jesus who was sent to die and he says such.

Matthew 20:
17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,

18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,

19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

this makes no sense… 1st you say Jesus was not sent to die then you quote a scripture psg that says just that…

Jesus was but a prophet; a man.

Jesus is God. He said he was/is God… Either he is God or He is a liar… and if a liar, he is not a prophet… He was either who he said he was or he is a terrible person…

 

[distracted]

Yes, I understand. But specifically, my curiosity touches on what it is you will do in heaven for all of eternity? ]

Number #1: We won’t have to deal with having Obama as president…

Number #2: We get to eat all the cake and ice-cream we want and never get fat or out of shape or sick to our stomachs…

Number #3: We will always be 30 yrs old and look like glorified versions of Angie or Brad

Number #4: We will be able to get inebriated on some wine-like substance without killing brain cells and damaging our livers…

etc… etc…

 

[planten]

**You have all been telling us your faith that Jesus died for you all because he loved you very much. Then it is also told to us that God loved the mankind so much that he gave his only son to die for us.

It is also being taught that the death of one man can cure the ills of others. i.e. salvation. We see so many odd things in the beliefs of the Catholics. We also see that your God was not merciful because he did not care for his own son Jesus.

The above is all beside the point because we people do not believe that god had any (real) son at all. We do not believe that Jesus died for you. We believe that he was killed, i.e. according to your belief.
We do not believe that killing one man at the cross can help the others.
Also we never believe that every person, all prophets of God, even a new born baby is a sinner. But Jesus is not a sinner. Some of you would like to believe that Mary was also not a sinner. I don’t know why is that.
Why did Jesus have to die? You people believe that wages of sin are death. i.e. people die due to sin. We do not believe that. We believe that every one has to die whether he/she is sinful or not. And the newborn baby is not a sinner. There is no inherited sin.

If wages of sin are death and Jesus paid the pricce i.e. died for the sins of mankind then there should be no more death now…

I have raised some questions here. I would like the exact reply to these thing in the words of Jesus only, not paul or saul etc. Can any Catholic give me the answer in the words of Jesus (with reference from bibleNT) to these things one by one at a time?

No abuse please.**

 

[distracted]

** We also see that your God was not merciful because he did not care for his own son Jesus. ** then you would also believe God doesn’t care about any other human being either… becasue all people suffer, if only on their death-bed… Are you saying God doesn’t care about anyone? It is sin that causes bad things in the world… not God… He gave humans this world to do with as they chose… People choose to do evil and so the world is full of evil. It just stands to reason that if God came to Earth, he would be tortured and murdered… that is what humanity has been doing since DAY ONE of creation… wars, rapes, abortion… Man is depraved… even with JEsus having come and died for us, man is still depraved… becasue he is not choosing JEsus…

The above is all beside the point because we people do not believe that god had any (real) son at all. We do not believe that Jesus died for you. We believe that he was killed, i.e. according to your belief.

Jesus said that if we do not care for others (physical & other needs) we refuse to care for Him. He is God so anything we do / do not do for the least of His brethren, we do / refuse to do for God Himself… (St. Mt 25:31-46)… The consequences of not doing for the least of his brethren is eternal punishment… separation from God and all his goodness… (Heaven)…

 

[inJESUS]

I personally do not believe Jesus had to die. I believe He knew it and accepted it. Why did He accept it? for too many reasons, among them proving who He said He is. His death and resurrection are one of the most powerful challenges to humanity and at the same time a love challenge.

 

[simplynoone]

this makes no sense… 1st you say Jesus was not sent to die then you quote a scripture psg that says just that… Jesus is God. He said he was/is God… Either he is God or He is a liar… and if a liar, he is not a prophet… He was either who he said he was or he is a terrible person…

17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,

18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,

19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

says in kindest voice You show that you have not gotten to know the foundation on which your faith claims.

Son of Man is clearly written in the Tanakh and it clearly shows what the Son of man is. This is why Jesus does not say “I” but rather “the Son of man…” The Son of Man is what so many miss out on and why it can be said that most would not know Jesus if he were in front of your face.

Note verse 19. You might want to get to reading some of the prophetic books because this is no doubt truth.

Side Note: General By the way, it is sad that others are having to say “please, no abuse.” It only goes to show that Jesus’ teachings are not where they are being claimed to be.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Jesus had to die for our sins goes all the way back to the beginning. When Adam and Eve brought sind to the world god had told them if they eat of the fruit of the Tree they would die. in dying Jesus not only redeemed us from our personnal sins he conquerd the hold of death on us with the resurection so that we cn follow him into Glory.