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ProVobis
Guest
As far as I know, no one has memorized the entire missalette yet, especially a disposable one.
But point taken.
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But point taken.
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Hboggs
Guest
In our previous parish Church, EVERYONE held hands during the “OF”. In the parish we are now in, it is done usually only within family groups.
I love the “finger in the nose” comment!
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iwillrisenow
Guest
The “Peace be with you” bow is also done at parishes in countries like South Korea, where bowing is the greeting custom. I usually end up doing a little bow and ‘peace’ hand motion to the people who are further away, as do many others at the Masses I attend.
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Gordon_Sims
Guest
At our parish it started at the weekly Mass for the kids at the school. It happened at some point when we weren’t going to Mass regularly, and the first time I saw it I had no idea why people were doing it. My son had a funny look on his face so I asked him about it. He said they’d started it a while back during the school Masses, that everyone in class was expected to do it, and then he promptly put his hands in his pockets to avoid holding hands.
I made sure we did it the following week, basically out of the sheep/monkey see, monkey do mentality, but after I really liked the family unity it showed. People at our parish typically do it just in family groups, although at one Mass a couple years ago the first 3-4 rows all joined hands, even across the aisle. That was more than I’d have preferred, but we still enjoy doing it as a family. Unless, of course, my daughters are quarreling, then they either refuse to hold hands or see who can squeeze the hardest, which is a-whole-nother matter entirely.
I made sure we did it the following week, basically out of the sheep/monkey see, monkey do mentality, but after I really liked the family unity it showed. People at our parish typically do it just in family groups, although at one Mass a couple years ago the first 3-4 rows all joined hands, even across the aisle. That was more than I’d have preferred, but we still enjoy doing it as a family. Unless, of course, my daughters are quarreling, then they either refuse to hold hands or see who can squeeze the hardest, which is a-whole-nother matter entirely.
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ProVobis
Guest
And this is something you don’t do at home?
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roadsend
Guest
Yup, and when I have seen concelebrating clergy (including the bishop) holding hands it makes me feel like throwing up.
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Jack_Bauer
Guest
Actually, this practice goes all the way back to the beginning of Christianity. The early Christians did this. Why it was discouraged seems odd to me.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catacombs_of_Rome
Check out the ancient catacombs for more information on this practice. However, the Church authority can discourage anything it likes, but without demanding it there is not much that can be done about it. Do we really want to discourage people from opening their arms to God? I typically don’t do it in mass.
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George_Stegmeir
Guest
In my Polish American parish we neither hold hands or hold our hands palm upward for the Our Father…In both English and Polish Masses. We hold our hands in the traditional manner for prayer. Very traditionally Catholic and superlatively unpretentious and reverant.
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FatHead
Guest
no sing it in latin its beutiful and quite easy
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Elizium23
Guest
I beg your pardon, are you citing this Wikipedia article as some kind of proof that people held hands and recited the Lord’s Prayer in ancient liturgy? Because I scanned the article completely and found no reference to any such practice.
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Jack_Bauer
Guest
I never quoted. What I did do is show you pictures of frescos that were found in the catabombs. [edited] I began to search more, but I’m not feeling well. But a simple search will provide you with more well known frescos of ancient Christians holding their hands up in the “traditional” manner.
edited to add: Discovering the catabcombs along with the early church fathers are what brought this anti-Catholic back to the Church. I was a very conservative fundamentalist/evangelical that was very verbose in my faith. Be careful how to attempt to discredit people with false accusations. It will catch up to you and hinder those that may be considering conversion. The exact article I wanted was out of pocket for me, but to expedite a quick response I used that site to reveal pictures of what I was talking about. I never read the article. I merely was showing pictures of women raising their arms as was the practice in the early Church. Do your research. I to had problems with it at first. I think the charismatic movement, that brought so much heresy into the church, also brought back some good things… reminders. I just don’t go for the fakeness of a group that claims to be more holier than the rest of us, as if tongues are better gifts than those of us with other gifts. enough of that.
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mysteryreligion
Guest
***i dont know but i HATE it
some people smile and are SO “loving” toward SOME
and then when they come to someone who, say, isn’t dressed in fancy clothes, they lose their smile and barely touch the outstretched hand
i refuse to be part of this nonsense…
and the greeting during Mass… yuck… ditto***
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Jack_Bauer
Guest
For the doubters that don’t believe Catholic beliefs and practices are in fact ancient.
catacombe.roma.it/
google.com/search?q=catacombs&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=l0W&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=U4dvTpzaJo7DsQLk87mmBg&ved=0CGsQsAQ&biw=985&bih=578
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Elizium23
Guest
I see images of people raising their hands in prayer, which I absolutely do not dispute is ancient and acceptable practice. What I do not see is some account of people, during the Lord’s Prayer, holding each other’s hands, as you originally claimed. This thread is about holding hands during the Our Father, not the orans posture that is a separate issue.
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JHow
Guest
I’d be curious why you believe it started in Los Angeles?
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Jack_Bauer
Guest
I don’t remember saying they held hands. I thought I was saying they held their hands up. I have also ready, though, early christians holding their hands in prayer circles. But was it in context in the mass? Don’t know. All I merely am saying is that holding hands up during prayer is not a big deal to me. However, unless my family is next to me, I choose to hold my hands together. As a family, I will hold my children’s hands during the Lord’s Prayer. But I really, like others, do not care to hold others hands standing next to me. As I tried to say earlier in a more coloquial language I’m more accustomed to here in Texas. Translated this time: don’t jump to conclusions about things you don’t understand. I am fifty years old, am a returning graduate student in education and know a good source when I see one. I merely was pointing to pictures and later googled the sights I was really talking about. But Wikapedia is not a good source in and of itself, yet, if you scroll to the bottom of the page you will often find legitimate and reliable references for where the information was derived. I’m sorry if your culture does not allow for the nuances of mine.
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Jack_Bauer
Guest
I believe there is a believe that the Charismatic Renewal has its roots in LA.
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mellowcalico
Guest
What’s interesting about this is that I first saw it in San Diego. I just moved from the East Coast (where no one held hands, ever–at least I never saw it in any Church in my diocese). In the San Diego Church, laity was also shouting out things during the Prayer of the Faithful to pray for–it was kind of odd. I wondered if I was in a breakaway Catholic Church (I wasn’t). Soon after that I stopped going to Church for years–not because of these things, but the culture shock didn’t help.
By the time I started going to Church again, I had moved back home (to the East Coast) and I started to see people holding hands here–but not as much at first. Over the past few years, it seems to have grown a lot. My daughter holds my hand and holds up her other hand like she sees other people do (and she tries to lift up my other hand, but I shake my head no), I’ve told her a few times that “it’s optional and I never grew up doing that and I like to pray the way I learned, but I will hold your hand if you want to do it.” She sometimes does it now, sometimes doesn’t.
Thank goodness the shouting out during the Prayer of the Faithful didn’t catch on. That felt really awkward to me.
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George_Stegmeir
Guest
Because all fads in the United States start in Los Angeles from pop art to unauthorized variations of the Holy Mass.
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mozier
Guest
I recall first seeing this in a Connecticut parish back in 1975. I thought it was very odd, for my parish never would do such a thing. This parish even had people stretch out to the center-aisle to “connect” with each other.
I believe it all came down from various sources, from the charismatics to Marriage Encounter to “Father Hank” introducing it to the parish “in order to feel the community and ‘the spirit’!” Though technically not a liturgical abuse, it is indeed not in the rubrics and is something with which not everyone is comfortable. Personally, I am not a touchy-feely person, so hand holding and hugging people (during the Sign of Peace) or “introducing myself to those around” me is very difficult, though I try to do it anyways if I must. Still, I prefer the hands in prayer-position (palms together) and saying it out loud in English while praying mentally in Latin.
I believe it all came down from various sources, from the charismatics to Marriage Encounter to “Father Hank” introducing it to the parish “in order to feel the community and ‘the spirit’!” Though technically not a liturgical abuse, it is indeed not in the rubrics and is something with which not everyone is comfortable. Personally, I am not a touchy-feely person, so hand holding and hugging people (during the Sign of Peace) or “introducing myself to those around” me is very difficult, though I try to do it anyways if I must. Still, I prefer the hands in prayer-position (palms together) and saying it out loud in English while praying mentally in Latin.
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