Why did Pope Leo XIII approve Christopher Columbus?

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Yes. Slavery by that time had evolved into African style plantation slavery, which had come to be condemned by the church. Roman style slavery, which was the type of slavery in force at the time of Columbus, was NOT condemned by the church. Let me state that again… the type of slavery that was around during Columbus’ voyage was found allowable by the Catholic Church in certain circumstances. However, since Roman style slavery had essentially ceased to exist by about 1650-1680, the church gradually called for the condemnation of ALL slavery. This is an example of the development of doctrine, due to the evolution of the institution of slavery. The change in opinion will gradually evolve, beginning with Las Casas and ending in the mid to late 1800s.
But if the slavery in Columbus day was the one that inspired.De Casas, why was it still allowable. What was the difference between African and Native American slavery that made Native American slavery (Roman style) less condemned?
 
Having read all of the missives in this thread, I must state once again, You can’t make a valid moral judgement as to the intent of historical events using contemporary moral values. If a judgement must be made, it must be done using the values in effect at the time of the event. This is a primary rule in the study of history.
A failure to observe this rule results in revisionism; that is, historical record distorted to accomodate a contemporary political slant…a cardinal sin for true intellectuals!
Yet Church teaching doesn’t change…

As cited previously, the Church DID in fact CONDEMN the actions of the Spaniards in the Canary Islands who had basically done the SAME thing that they would in turn do in the Americas (Rolltide, I’m actually quite interested in your thoughts concerning the Guanches.).

It’s not so much a cardinal sin, as it is facing up to the fact that SOME of the faithful made a HUGE mistake. Again, Church teaching DOES NOT change. If Fray Bartolome de Las Casas during that time recognized the humanity of his fellow human being, why then do we have the Sepulveda Debates (Which again I state, they provide the basis for the very arguments that allow for abortion in our age. What determines personhood ?) ?

Likewise, it is my understanding that St.Thomas Aquinas makes it QUITE clear, as did St.Gregory the Great that a person CANNOT be coerced into the Faith. St.Thomas further makes the case, that a person CANNOT baptize the child of a people who ARE NOT of the Christian faith against their wishes(If the child is at the point of death, that’s another matter completely.), yet we see that happen AFTER the fact. Not to mention the famed prayer calling for the conversion of the Ethiopians (Archaic form for black Africans), who supposedly were under the Curse of Ham. This was in the late 1800s if I recall correctly. Something seems amiss about all that, given that scripture, and tradition on the matter would have dictated that the curse was placed on CANAAN, and that the curse came to be fulfilled when the Phillistines, and Israelites were both settled in the land of Canaan, having enslaved the Canaanites. How then do we justify it being applied retrograde ?

Truth be told, we’re all for “revisionist” history when it concerns the Crusades (The 4th Crusade was condemned by the Pope.), the Inquisition (Which many seem to forget that the Pope WASN’T keen on the idea, and even petitioned King Ferdinand on behalf of conversos to HALT the tribunals. King Ferdinand effectively sent the Pope a letter telling him to butt out.), etc., but yet when it comes to the Americas, oh we can’t have that. I’m beginning to think there is a bit more going on here than meets the eye. Nevertheless, there is no use arguing with those who are so committed to a position, that they can’t entertain an alternative in light of documented evidence from WITHIN the period itself.
 
This concerns the Guanches:

Sicut dudum (1435)

“They have deprived the natives of their property or turned it to their own use, and have subjected some of the inhabitants of said islands to perpetual slavery (subdiderunt perpetuae servituti), sold them to other persons and committed other various illicit and evil deeds against them… Therefore We … exhort, through the sprinkling of the Blood of Jesus Christ shed for their sins, one and all, temporal princes, lords, captains, armed men, barons, soldiers, nobles, communities and all others of every kind among the Christian faithful of whatever state, grade or condition, that they themselves desist from the aforementioned deeds, cause those subject to them to desist from them, and restrain them rigorously. And no less do We order and command all and each of the faithful of each sex that, within the space of fifteen days of the publication of these letters in the place where they live, that they restore to their pristine liberty all and each person of either sex who were once residents of said Canary Islands … who have been made subject to slavery (servituti subicere). These people are to be totally and perpetually free and are to be let go without the exaction or reception of any money.”

The Church had already recognized the abuses committed, and in turn condemned their actions.
 
I think it is ironic that one of the apparently cheif organizations of the Church is named after this infamous scoundrel who’s historic “discovery” is inaccurately and wrongfully honored. His “holiday” ought to be purged from our calendars and our minds and his actual significance in history regarding the treatment of humans be known.
 
I think it is ironic that one of the apparently cheif [sic] organizations of the Church is named after this infamous scoundrel who’s historic “discovery” is inaccurately and wrongfully honored. His “holiday” ought to be purged from our calendars and our minds and his actual significance in history regarding the treatment of humans be known.
Well, let me say that I agree that the holiday is inaccurately honored. As we acknowledge, Columbus was not the first to “discover” America. “America” didn’t even exist, only some nameless continents. However, he is given credit because his voyage changed history so dramatically. Neither the Vikings, the alleged Chinese, the Dark Age Irish, the Lost Tribe of Israel, nor Kennewick Man are recognized as having “discovered” anything since their activities, even when given the benefit of any doubt and looked at in the most favorable light, changed history in the slightest.

Odds are, for example, if we go back in time and change one event, a whole different series of events would result. Had Columbus never existed, you, I, and all the American Indians alive today would never have been born. Or if we had been born, it would have been to different parents and different places.

Having said that, I find your politically correct attitude extremely disturbing, for it requires us to make ourselves intentionally stupid: we have to pretend we don’t know things we do know, to cease pursuing truth, and to lay at the feet of Columbus everything bad that has happened in the Americas since 1492, even the Johnstown flood and the Great San Francisco Earthquake, one would think … all in order to assuage the manufactured grievances of a few. And in the end, they will be no better off than they are now, for no amount of mea culpas will put their world back the way it was before.

What started as a demand for basic civil rights has mutated into a liberal demand to overturn the whole society, along with its traditions and norms, its standards and laws, its history and heroes.
 
Yet Church teaching doesn’t change…

As cited previously, the Church DID in fact CONDEMN the actions of the Spaniards in the Canary Islands who had basically done the SAME thing that they would in turn do in the Americas (Rolltide, I’m actually quite interested in your thoughts concerning the Guanches.).

It’s not so much a cardinal sin, as it is facing up to the fact that SOME of the faithful made a HUGE mistake. Again, Church teaching DOES NOT change. If Fray Bartolome de Las Casas during that time recognized the humanity of his fellow human being, why then do we have the Sepulveda Debates (Which again I state, they provide the basis for the very arguments that allow for abortion in our age. What determines personhood ?) ?

Likewise, it is my understanding that St.Thomas Aquinas makes it QUITE clear, as did St.Gregory the Great that a person CANNOT be coerced into the Faith. St.Thomas further makes the case, that a person CANNOT baptize the child of a people who ARE NOT of the Christian faith against their wishes(If the child is at the point of death, that’s another matter completely.), yet we see that happen AFTER the fact. Not to mention the famed prayer calling for the conversion of the Ethiopians (Archaic form for black Africans), who supposedly were under the Curse of Ham. This was in the late 1800s if I recall correctly. Something seems amiss about all that, given that scripture, and tradition on the matter would have dictated that the curse was placed on CANAAN, and that the curse came to be fulfilled when the Phillistines, and Israelites were both settled in the land of Canaan, having enslaved the Canaanites. How then do we justify it being applied retrograde ?

Truth be told, we’re all for “revisionist” history when it concerns the Crusades (The 4th Crusade was condemned by the Pope.), the Inquisition (Which many seem to forget that the Pope WASN’T keen on the idea, and even petitioned King Ferdinand on behalf of conversos to HALT the tribunals. King Ferdinand effectively sent the Pope a letter telling him to butt out.), etc., but yet when it comes to the Americas, oh we can’t have that. I’m beginning to think there is a bit more going on here than meets the eye. Nevertheless, there is no use arguing with those who are so committed to a position, that they can’t entertain an alternative in light of documented evidence from WITHIN the period itself.
Yes, but who is doing the documentation? From what I am reading here, are questions with an obvious political bias…That the settlement of North and South America was wrong and that the white man is a horrible group of people that historically oppressed all people of color-a view expressed and taught by a group of radical left-wing history professors.
Normally, such a view would have originally been dismissed by Academia as being ridiculous on its face. However, this view was propagandized during the 1960’s and '70’s as part of a dis-information campaign by clandestine agencies of the Soviet Union to cause social discontent in the United States. Unfortunately, this dis-information has lodged itself into the public mind and is mainly propagated by politically motivated self styled intellectuals, who when called upon, cannot cite any legitimate references.
Can anyone on this thread cite any reference that Columbus was directly involved in enslaving any native Americans?
As for the Holy Father lauding Columbus for his accomplishments, in 1892, slavery was an issue so far in the past, that in all probability it was not even considered when the Bull was written!
 
I will be posting responses on here soon, but my desktop computer crashed this morning and I only have limited internet access. Sorry. I should be up and running soon I hope.
 
…
Having said that, I find your politically correct attitude extremely disturbing, for it requires us to make ourselves intentionally stupid: we have to pretend we don’t know things we do know, to cease pursuing truth, and to lay at the feet of Columbus everything bad that has happened in the Americas since 1492, even the Johnstown flood and the Great San Francisco Earthquake, one would think … all in order to assuage the manufactured grievances of a few. And in the end, they will be no better off than they are now, for no amount of mea culpas will put their world back the way it was before.

What started as a demand for basic civil rights has mutated into a liberal demand to overturn the whole society, along with its traditions and norms, its standards and laws, its history and heroes.
Uhhhh… Would you mind explaining what you mean by this mini rant, as I see no connection between it and what I said? It seems to me that you are presuming much, very much, about where I stand on things, and you used it as a frail excuse to blow off political steam. Rather silly steam at that, don’t you agree? Perhaps these sorts of rants are for a younger, far less educated individual?
 
Yes, but who is doing the documentation? From what I am reading here, are questions with an obvious political bias…That the settlement of North and South America was wrong and that the white man is a horrible group of people that historically oppressed all people of color-a view expressed and taught by a group of radical left-wing history professors.
Normally, such a view would have originally been dismissed by Academia as being ridiculous on its face. However, this view was propagandized during the 1960’s and '70’s as part of a dis-information campaign by clandestine agencies of the Soviet Union to cause social discontent in the United States. Unfortunately, this dis-information has lodged itself into the public mind and is mainly propagated by politically motivated self styled intellectuals, who when called upon, cannot cite any legitimate references.
Can anyone on this thread cite any reference that Columbus was directly involved in enslaving any native Americans?
As for the Holy Father lauding Columbus for his accomplishments, in 1892, slavery was an issue so far in the past, that in all probability it was not even considered when the Bull was written!
All the documentation I cited was collected by the Church. I’m not sure if you took the opportunity to read anything I cited. The Church through Popes, Bishops, and men religious all spoke out against the actions of the Conquistadors from within the period.

There isn’t any political bias involved. As Catholics, we can engage with the errors of our past (Or rather, we can engage with the errors of some of our members from the past.), and insure that they are not made anew. It is as simple as that.

No one is blaming the Spanish, Portuguese, French, etc. of this age, nor has anyone made a blanket statement condemning individuals of European extraction then, and now. What however IS being engaged, is that the ideology informing the actions of the Spanish from within the period WAS erroneous in light of the message of the Gospels. Throughout the history of ALL evangelatory periods, none has ever been conducted in the manner that was the Encounter Era. That is what I, and others take issue with.

It has been cited that Our Lady in an apparition, consoled St.James the Greater, that Spain (Who he was having A LOT of trouble converting early on.) would be instrumental in converting the nations (IIRC). However, I have only seen this cited but ONCE, and in turn do recall a similar prophecy being made concerning Our Lord promising Portugal on a battlefield an empire. However, the details of the empire to be granted were never articulated, but I digress.

Nevertheless, if you take the opportunity to read the various Papal Bulls issued during the period, and prior, you’ll see that it’s not merely “leftist propaganda”. The Church recognized the abuses for what they were. That we Catholics have a hard time reconciling those matters, is another matter completely. However, in order to do so, we must be willing to accept things as they were, and then proceed to move on from there.
 
Uhhhh… Would you mind explaining what you mean by this mini rant, as I see no connection between it and what I said? It seems to me that you are presuming much, very much, about where I stand on things, and you used it as a frail excuse to blow off political steam. Rather silly steam at that, don’t you agree? Perhaps these sorts of rants are for a younger, far less educated individual?
Why was Columbus evil? The modern liberal starts with the proposition that everyone is equal in all respects, and none are better than any other. If no one is better than anyone else in any respect, there is no explanation for someone’s success other than that someone having cheated, and the greater the success, the greater the injustice.

There is nothing inherently wrong with looking at our mistakes and correcting them. But in the process, the modern liberal did not end up being objective, neutral, tolerant, or even indifferent; he end up hating what is good, right, or successful. Thus, by opening up the Age of Exploration and Discovery, Columbus is reviled for all the ills that have befallen the Western Hemisphere since his first voyage. If the modern liberal were truly objective and applied the same standard across the board, he would have to conclude that Columbus was at least partially responsible for the founding of the greatest nation ever, the United States, which the modern liberal cannot do because he would have to admit that his thesis is wrong [unless the U.S. is also evil, which is entirely possible in the mind of the modern liberal]. But most of all, if he recognized that some do excel, then the modern liberal would be guilty of the bigotry of having discriminated. Hence, political correctness is a crusade to ignorance characterized by a rejection of truth that conflicts with ideology … liberal ideology. That’s why I said we have to make ourselves intentionally stupid. We are engaged in the latter day version of The Emperor’s New Clothes. Capisce?

“The more America does to improve itself, the more unbearable become its remaining shortcomings.”
 
Why was Columbus evil? The modern liberal starts with the proposition that everyone is equal in all respects, and none are better than any other. If no one is better than anyone else in any respect, there is no explanation for someone’s success other than that someone having cheated, and the greater the success, the greater the injustice.

There is nothing inherently wrong with looking at our mistakes and correcting them. But in the process, the modern liberal did not end up being objective, neutral, tolerant, or even indifferent; he end up hating what is good, right, or successful. Thus, by opening up the Age of Exploration and Discovery, Columbus is reviled for all the ills that have befallen the Western Hemisphere since his first voyage. If the modern liberal were truly objective and applied the same standard across the board, he would have to conclude that Columbus was at least partially responsible for the founding of the greatest nation ever, the United States, which the modern liberal cannot do because he would have to admit that his thesis is wrong [unless the U.S. is also evil, which is entirely possible in the mind of the modern liberal]. But most of all, if he recognized that some do excel, then the modern liberal would be guilty of the bigotry of having discriminated. Hence, political correctness is a crusade to ignorance characterized by a rejection of truth that conflicts with ideology … liberal ideology. That’s why I said we have to make ourselves intentionally stupid. We are engaged in the latter day version of The Emperor’s New Clothes. Capisce?
OK, I get your conservative kool aid straw man rant, but wha does that have to do with what I said, since what i said was specific to Columbus? Here’s a guy who was one in a series who “discovered” the “new world,” and while occupying the part of it that he did, none of it ever in the good ol’ USA, dismanuated a whole tribe of indians, and burned another in sets of thirteens to commemorate Jesus and the twelve, and did other attrocites so vile that even in that day and age he was recalled as governor.

That’s all I’m tlaking about. How you extrapolatred that to a “modern liberal” stance that i’ve never even heard of, and is rather slanted in any case, and which I am far from alligning with. I simply don;t see. the only explanation I can see is that you are seething with some kind of emotionalism you have attached to your fntasies about our day and age and pseudo politics, and dumped on me. Capisce?
 
OK, I get your conservative kool aid straw man rant, but wha does that have to do with what I said, since what i said was specific to Columbus? … Capisce?
Not exactly. Read George Stegmeir’s post:
Having read all of the missives in this thread, I must state once again, You can’t make a valid moral judgement as to the intent of historical events using contemporary moral values. If a judgement must be made, it must be done using the values in effect at the time of the event. This is a primary rule in the study of history.
A failure to observe this rule results in revisionism; that is, historical record distorted to accomodate a contemporary political slant…a cardinal sin for true intellectuals!
All you have done is to use today’s liberal standards to make a moral judgment about Columbus by repeating the modern liberal screed about how evil Columbus was by those standards. To use another term, it is faux intellectualism “to distort the historical record to accommodate a contemporary political slant,” IOW modern liberalism that requires we make ourselves intentionally stupid by focusing on Columbus’ sins and ignoring his accomplishments in order to diminish them by implication. Because Leftism can’t succeed on its own, it must tear down success based on traditional standards.

I also call your attention also to Rolltide’s post:
Let me also point out, just for the sake of clarification, that “revisionism” is not the same as “revisionist history”. Revisionist history is re-examining an old historical question in the face of new evidence. A good example would be re-evaluating what we know about the Soviet Union now that we have access to the secret archives of that time period. Some of what we thought we knew was wrong, and thus this is legitimate re-examination. Revisionism CAN be as you say, but doesn’t have to be. It is possible to look at old historical events and apply them to new situations in new ways as culture changes. Key to any history is how you take lessons from the past and apply them to today. Of course, as you say, you have to base your examination of the past on the values of the bygone era.
What new evidence has surfaced to justify the claim that Columbus was as evil as you portray him? I would wager that the only thing new is “a contemporary political slant” bent on showing how evil Columbus was because he played a major role in a generally “evil” Western Civilization.

“The more America does to improve itself, the more unbearable become its remaining shortcomings.”
 
Not exactly. Read George Stegmeir’s post:
Yes, I did that even before your recommendation. Thanks, but it doesn’t apply to what I said, which had solely to do with Colombus’ treatment of indigenous peoples, not referring to any of his discovery activities, which don’t apply anyway. It is called “America.” not Columbia, except in poetic reference, for a reason, eh?

So again all I’m left with is that you need to dump, and were rude in using my post, which is irrelevant to your unfortunately biased political stance, as an excuse to put forth. Not very seemly, or useful, or engaging. if you ask me. And certainly not a credit to any reasonable form of debate. You made a distraction where there was none.
 
Yes, I did that even before your recommendation. Thanks, but it doesn’t apply to what I said, which had solely to do with Colombus’ treatment of indigenous peoples, not referring to any of his discovery activities, which don’t apply anyway. It is called “America.” not Columbia, except in poetic reference, for a reason, eh?

So again all I’m left with is that you need to dump, and were rude in using my post, which is irrelevant to your unfortunately biased political stance, as an excuse to put forth. Not very seemly, or useful, or engaging. if you ask me. And certainly not a credit to any reasonable form of debate. You made a distraction where there was none.
Translation: you have no evidence.
 
Translation: you have no evidence.
OK, I apologize. All his letters, journals ,and pertinent documents by and from others were forged as a conspiratorial act, I’m SUCH a sheisekopf. Please forgive me.
 
OK, I apologize. All his letters, journals ,and pertinent documents by and from others were forged as a conspiratorial act, I’m SUCH a sheisekopf. Please forgive me.
My original question was regarding new evidence:
…
What new evidence has surfaced to justify the claim that Columbus was as evil as you portray him? …
 
OK, I apologize. All his letters, journals ,and pertinent documents by and from others were forged as a conspiratorial act, I’m SUCH a sheisekopf. Please forgive me.
“idem non idem”. I get it.
 
When I teach this subject in my class, it usually takes at least an entire class period to explain all the background properly. I will try to do it here as succinctly as possible, and then if you have additional questions or need clarifications, I will answer them.

First, you need to realize that slavery prior to 1400 was a very different institution compared to what it would become by 1600. Roman-style slavery had never completely died out in Europe. Roman slavery was very different than the race-based plantation style slavery that we’re used to reading about in the American Old South. In Roman-style slavery, slaves were acquired in two main ways. Either they were captured in a war, or they sold themselves into slavery to pay off a debt. It was not based on race. (In fact, the word “slave” comes from “Slav”, since the ancient Greeks used to capture and enslave Slavic peoples in the area north of Macedonia.) In both cases, the term of servitude was usually limited (5-10 years was common, although lifelong slavery did occur). Children of slaves were usually considered free persons. Slaves had the right to marry who they chose. Slaves also had the right to work outside the home after dark, so some of them could make money on the side. One guarantee that Roman slaves always had was that if they could earn their purchase price, they could automatically purchase their freedom. It was not uncommon for someone to start out as a slave, have the family work to buy the freedom of one person, and then they would work full time to free the rest. It was also frequent that someone would purchase their freedom and continue working for their master as a wage laborer. Manumission, or the granting of freedom to slaves, was also extremely common. Rarely was a slave actually a slave for life in ancient Rome. Slaves in Rome even had a few very limited legal protections. They could, with permission of the master, live outside of the home. They were also protected from the most extreme abuse, although beatings “with an empty hand” were allowed (in other words, they couldn’t be struck with an object). Obviously, abuse still occurred frequently, and Roman slavery was still a very cruel and terrible institution. However, most people considered slavery as a temporary condition, something more akin to a jail sentence with hard labor, than a permanent state of life.

Now, when the Roman Empire collapsed, there began to be new rules for the enslavement of people. First, slavery didn’t happen very often between 500-1400 AD, but when it did, Christians were no longer permitted to be enslaved. Only infidels, or those that had learned about Christianity and rejected it, were permitted to be enslaved, since it was believed they were doomed to hell anyway. By 700 AD, this primarily applied to Muslims, although a few black sub-Saharan Africans were enslaved as well.

So, what we have prior to 1400 is an institution that was seen as a temporary punishment that was regulated and was not based on race. It was seen as morally wrong, but was far more morally ambiguous than it would become.

continued…
I recall reading that it was precisely because English law did NOT have a history of slavery that slavery in the U.S. was as complete as it was. In England, there were only two categories of property; real property and “chattels”; the latter being derived from the word “cattle” and applied to all “moveable” property.

Having no common law background regarding slavery, the English and Americans applied the laws of “chattels” to slaves; thus the term “chattel slavery”.

It may be noted that until its incorporation into the U.S., slavery in Louisiana was different from that in other parts of what was then the U.S., and was more like the Roman form. It was always assumed that slaves would, during their lives, become free, and they had other freedoms as well. Upon becoming a state, Louisiana only partly adopted the “chattel” system, and was never quite like it was in the other slave states. Nor was the status of blacks in southern Louisiana ever quite the same as it was in other southern states after the Civil War.
 
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