R
Rutherford2
Guest
Why did Roman soldiers cast lots for the clothes of Jesus? Also, Why did the witnesses lay their coats at Paul’s feet during Saint Stephen’s martyr? Could somebody tell me perhaps it has special meanings?
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G
guanophore
Guest
This was a common practice at crucifixion. The soldiers could claim whatever the condemned were wearing. They got paid little enough.
23 When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, they took his clothes and divided them into four parts, one for each soldier. They also took his tunic; now the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece from the top. 24 So they said to one another, “Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it to see who will get it.” This was to fulfill what the scripture says,
“They divided my clothes among themselves,
and for my clothing they cast lots.”
25 And that is what the soldiers did. John 19
It was also to fulfill the Scripture (Psalm 22). This is the Psalm Jesus quoted from the cross, that describes the crucifixion.
If you have ever tried to throw a baseball/football with a blanket wrapped around your body, you would surely want to take it off so your throw would be more effective. The coat was often the most valuable piece of clothing a person owned, so they would not want to just lay it on the ground.
In this passage it is recorded how Saul was complicit in the martyrdom of Stephen.
R
Rutherford2
Guest
You mean Saint Paul was temporarily taking care of their clothes?
G
guanophore
Guest
Exactly that. Paul said this about himself after his conversion.
"And while the blood of your witness Stephen was shed, I myself was standing by, approving and keeping the coats of those who killed him.’ Acts 22:20
S
Seagull
Guest
C
Cathoholic
Guest
Rutherford2 . . .
(I don’t know if the people stoning St. Stephen is related so I won’t comment here on that dimension).
Jesus is both Priest and sacrificial victim (Lamb of God).
The “seamless linen garment” is the way the Bible describes the garment of the High Priest in the Old Covenant.
If you want, let me know and when I get by a computer, I would be happy to put up some references (but only if you or someone else here wants–I don’t want to bother if you don’t want citations).
Dr. Brant Pitre, also discusses from extra-Biblical ancient Jewish sources, how the High Priest’s sacred tunic was often made by his mother!
IF that is the case here, that would mean the Blessed Virgin Mary weaved this tunic (but admittedly. That is speculation. Never the less fascinating so I included that information here).
Also recall that Caiaphas was the High Priest that year.
Also remember that Caiaphas ripped his own garment at our Lord Jesus’ trial.
OK. Big deal Cathoholic.
But it IS a big deal.
Why?
Because the Old Testament ALSO tells us that if the High Priest rips his tunic . . . He LOSES his priesthood!!
When Caiaphas did that, the Sanhedrin that was there, would have been absolutely stunned. Not enough to challenge Caiaphas to be sure, but indeed stunned never-the-less.
This represents a symbolic transfer from the Old to the New.
This represents a High Priesthood transfer from Caiaphas to our Lord Jesus almost certainly.
It represents Jesus readying to offer The Sacrifice (Himself).
It represents Jesus FULFILLING the Old Testament priesthood.
Just as even the Roman soldiers broke no bone of the Passover Lamb while on the Cross (or any other time), likewise even the Roman soldiers do NOT rip Jesus garment! (Fulfilling Psalm 22:19 also).
The Scriptures go to explicit lengths to remind us, that this tunic of our Lord Jesus, remains INTACT. Even when the Roman soldiers grab it.
(Bold Scripture mine)
1/2 . . .
(I don’t know if the people stoning St. Stephen is related so I won’t comment here on that dimension).
Jesus’ tunic was described as a “seamless linen garment”.
Jesus is both Priest and sacrificial victim (Lamb of God).
The “seamless linen garment” is the way the Bible describes the garment of the High Priest in the Old Covenant.
If you want, let me know and when I get by a computer, I would be happy to put up some references (but only if you or someone else here wants–I don’t want to bother if you don’t want citations).
Dr. Brant Pitre, also discusses from extra-Biblical ancient Jewish sources, how the High Priest’s sacred tunic was often made by his mother!
IF that is the case here, that would mean the Blessed Virgin Mary weaved this tunic (but admittedly. That is speculation. Never the less fascinating so I included that information here).
Also recall that Caiaphas was the High Priest that year.
Also remember that Caiaphas ripped his own garment at our Lord Jesus’ trial.
OK. Big deal Cathoholic.
But it IS a big deal.
Why?
Because the Old Testament ALSO tells us that if the High Priest rips his tunic . . . He LOSES his priesthood!!
When Caiaphas did that, the Sanhedrin that was there, would have been absolutely stunned. Not enough to challenge Caiaphas to be sure, but indeed stunned never-the-less.
This represents a symbolic transfer from the Old to the New.
This represents a High Priesthood transfer from Caiaphas to our Lord Jesus almost certainly.
It represents Jesus readying to offer The Sacrifice (Himself).
It represents Jesus FULFILLING the Old Testament priesthood.
Jesus NEW fulfilled Priesthood includes the Jewish people, but it now includes ALSO the Gentiles (represented by these Roman soldiers).
Just as even the Roman soldiers broke no bone of the Passover Lamb while on the Cross (or any other time), likewise even the Roman soldiers do NOT rip Jesus garment! (Fulfilling Psalm 22:19 also).
(There are other relevant Scripture passages too–not included here.)
The Scriptures go to explicit lengths to remind us, that this tunic of our Lord Jesus, remains INTACT. Even when the Roman soldiers grab it.
(Bold Scripture mine)
1/2 . . .
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C
Cathoholic
Guest
2/2 . . .
The Scriptures go to explicit lengths to remind us, that this tunic of our Lord Jesus, remains INTACT. Even when the Roman soldiers grab it.
Yet unless there is deep meaning here it would be mere trivia.
But it cannot be trivia as St. John only includes a small sampling of IMPORTANT things Jesus said and did.
God bless.
Cathoholic
The Scriptures go to explicit lengths to remind us, that this tunic of our Lord Jesus, remains INTACT. Even when the Roman soldiers grab it.
Yet unless there is deep meaning here it would be mere trivia.
But it cannot be trivia as St. John only includes a small sampling of IMPORTANT things Jesus said and did.
This is merely my opinion, but after hearing Dr. Pitre expound on these things, I think it is a reasonable insight into part of what is going on here.
God bless.
Cathoholic
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D
dochawk
Guest
In all seriousness . . . they were entitled to them (under Roman law), and they didn’t divide evenly.
How else would they have decided who got the best pieces?
How else would they have decided who got the best pieces?
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Clothing in those days was a scarce item, and a well-made piece, like Jesus’ seamless garment, was considered pretty valuable. They didn’t want to tear it and ruin its value so they threw dice for it.
I do wonder who ended up with it and what they did with it. “The Robe” was a good story imagining what might have happened, but it’s fiction.
I do wonder who ended up with it and what they did with it. “The Robe” was a good story imagining what might have happened, but it’s fiction.
S
Seagull
Guest
I wonder if Veronica’s cloth is fiction ?
R
Rutherford2
Guest
I bet they hung it is their living room so they can boast about it to their visitors on how it used to belong to the King of Jews.
There’s no way to tell. I guess we must remember to ask her that question when we meet her in heaven.
M
MonteRCMS
Guest
There is a book by Joan Carroll Cruz, “Relics” … published by Tan Books.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I enjoy reading about all the different purported Veils of Veronica here.
Veil of Veronica - Wikipedia
Even though they can’t all be “real”, it’s nice that so many purported images of the Lord’s face have been venerated over the centuries.
R
Rutherford2
Guest
Personally, I think the face of Jesus on the cloth is too clear and accurate to be real. If you were Veronica, you wont even take your sweet time to properly cover Jesus’s face with a viel us to make an imprint of it during his intense journey to his cruxifiction.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
From what I’ve read about the cloth that the Vatican displays once a year as being a veil, the image just looks like a brown smudge or stain, not like a nice clear face.
But presumably if Jesus wanted to imprint his image on a cloth, he could make it clear, similar to Our Lady of Guadalupe imprinting her image on the Tilma.
But presumably if Jesus wanted to imprint his image on a cloth, he could make it clear, similar to Our Lady of Guadalupe imprinting her image on the Tilma.
R
Rutherford2
Guest
Did the Vatican check whether the blood on the veil matches the blood on the shroud of Turin?
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Don’t know for sure, but I somehow doubt it.
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