Why did Satan fall?

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From ‘Devil’ entry in Catholic Encyclopaedia:
The authoritative teaching of the Church on this topic is set forth in the decrees of the Fourth Lateran Council (cap. i, “Firmiter credimus”), wherein, after saying that God in the beginning had created together two creatures, the spiritual and the corporeal, that is to say the angelic and the earthly, and lastly man , who was made of both spirit and body, the council continues:
“Diabolus enim et alii dæmones a Deo quidem naturâ creati sunt boni, sed ipsi per se facti sunt mali.” (“the Devil and the other demons were created by God good in their nature but they by themselves have made themselves evil .”)
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Why, then, did the Devil/Satan/Lucifer fall? They were created good and lived in the presence of God: what on earth (or, indeed, in heaven? ;)) made them decide to rebel?
 
What makes me sin? Pride, wanting to be God, and wanting my will more than His will. Same old, same old. Satan’s sin wasn’t special or unique or in a strange way justified (like he didn’t know what he was doing was wrong since he was perfect), it was just as indefensible and selfish as any of ours.
 
There are al types of stories. Such as this one.

Satan was the supreme angel. When God created man, a being without any light or power and God let it be known that these creatures would one day inherit the kingdom of God and reign with Jesus, he saw his own importance diminished since these men would be above him in stature and prominence. He naturally rebeled himself and decided to try and prevent this humans from being placed above him.
 
Joey please define what you mean by “stories”

is it like the term biblical characters?

or a story like a fairy tale?

🙂
 
JoeyWarren said:
There are al types of stories. Such as this one.

Satan was the supreme angel. When God created man, a being without any light or power and God let it be known that these creatures would one day inherit the kingdom of God and reign with Jesus, he saw his own importance diminished since these men would be above him in stature and prominence. He naturally rebeled himself and decided to try and prevent this humans from being placed above him.
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Apart from the reference to Jesus isn’t that from the Qur’an?
 
I’ve always been taught that Satan wanted to make himself like God. It was pride, he thought he could do the job. I think that’s in the Catechism but I’m not sure.

The real question is why did God create Satan knowing he was going to rebel? The only explanation I can think of is this but this is nothing more than an idea, it’s not supported as far as I know:

God created mankind and gave us freewill so that we could be in his image and choose to freely love him. However if we are to have the choice between God and not then if God is good then an entity must exist that is totally absent of all good. If our choice is good or evil then it would make sense for there to be a personified evil to choose as well as a personified good; therefore in order to give us freewill God created an Angel he knew would fall.
 
There aren’t very many passages about what happened in the angelic rebellion.

Wisdom 2:23-24 for God created man for incorruption, and made him in the image of his own eternity, but through* the devil’s envy** death entered the world, and those who belong to his party experience it.*

The passage doesn’t say for sure who it was that the devil was envious of (God or man), but since it is the creation of man that is spoken of in the first half of the sentence, it probably indicates that there was something about man that Satan was envious of. Neither does the Scripture text say whether this envy was the cause of Satan’s fall or whether it came about afterwards.

The following passage is also thought to apply to Satan, as well as to the Babylonian king. (The title “Day Star” = Lucifer)

*Isaiah 14:12 - 15 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High.’ But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit. *

Another speculation I’ve heard (similar to JoeyWarren’s) is that all of the angels were shown that God would become man (Jesus), and that all would have to bow down and worship Him. Lucifer considered it far below his dignity to bow down before human flesh, a form of creature inferior to himself; he refused and rebelled. Please note, these speculations are not doctrine. You might call them stories, but they would be based on the Scripture that says Satan was envious of man, proud, etc.

Nita
 
jonnyws said:
I’ve always been taught that Satan wanted to make himself like God. It was pride, he thought he could do the job. I think that’s in the Catechism but I’m not sure.

The real question is why did God create Satan knowing he was going to rebel? The only explanation I can think of is this but this is nothing more than an idea, it’s not supported as far as I know:

God created mankind and gave us freewill so that we could be in his image and choose to freely love him. However if we are to have the choice between God and not then if God is good then an entity must exist that is totally absent of all good. If our choice is good or evil then it would make sense for there to be a personified evil to choose as well as a personified good; therefore in order to give us freewill God created an Angel he knew would fall.
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God never willed sin either as an end or as a means to an end. God foresaw and allowed the fall of the angels, as well as their instigation of sin in human history because, as the CCC puts it, he could mysteriously draw a greater good from the evil than if he had never allowed the evil to begin with.

and the short answer to this is precisely the power of redemptive suffering. If we had never fallen, we would not need to suffer, and so we would have no need of loving to a greater degree that occurs when one suffers in love. God from all eternity foresaw the fall so to use so He could love us more than if we had never fallen, ie., by suffering for us, and if that were not enough, after Christ, he passed the power of redemptive suffering onto us: We now have the abiltiy to love others to a greater degree than if we had never fallen, and that is precisely by suffering. If I never had to suffer for my wife, my love would not be as great. “no greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friend.”

In other words, God is using demonic influence to draw ever greater goods in human history.
 
mankind is human and spirit. demons and angels are spirit.

God is both so perhaps it did bug satan. Keeping in mind he was also a beautiful angel before the fall. he wanted to be as God, so perhaps humanity did come into the decision.

At any rate it aint gonna work 😃

ps Joey so then in plain words you consider it a story you were told so has no truth then? I ask because a story is fiction, thats all.
 
Kitty_Chan said:
ps Joey so then in plain words you consider it a story you were told so has no truth then? I ask because a story is fiction, thats all.
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It’s a pity you hold such a narrow definition of the word “Story”.

1.a narrative, either true or fictitious, in prose or verse, designed to interest, amuse, or instruct the hearer or reader; tale.

2.a fictitious tale, shorter and less elaborate than a novel.

3.such narratives or tales as a branch of literature: song and story.

4.the plot or succession of incidents of a novel, poem, drama, etc.: The characterizations were good, but the story was weak.

5.a narration of an incident or a series of events or an example of these that is or may be narrated, as an anecdote, joke, etc.

6.**a narration of the events in the life of a person or the existence of a thing, or such events as a subject for narration: **the story of medicine; the story of his life.

7.a report or account of a matter; statement or allegation: The story goes that he rejected the offer.

8.[news story.](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=news story)

9.a lie or fabrication: What he said about himself turned out to be a story.

10.Obsolete. history. –verb (used with object)

11.to ornament with pictured scenes, as from history or legend.

12.Obsolete. to tell the history or story of.

Synonyms 1.** legend, fable, romance; anecdote, record, history, chronicle. 5. recital. 7. description.
 
Well long definations aside, I was actually reading in context.

You paralled it to a mother reading a bedtime story to a child. My protestant mom (of a church I no longer attend) told me a story (you left that church because you dont agree with it, so why would I think it was any more than a fiction account in your eyes.)

Add that to sola scripture, no authority etc, It seems like you were being sarcastic, and unbelieving, perhaps I should have asked that!

Now, if you were not and meant it as a instructional explaination by your mother that you hold to then fine.

🙂
 
Kitty_Chan said:
Well long definations aside, I was actually reading in context.

You paralled it to a mother reading a bedtime story to a child. My protestant mom (of a church I no longer attend) told me a story (you left that church because you dont agree with it, so why would I think it was any more than a fiction account in your eyes.)

Add that to sola scripture, no authority etc, It seems like you were being sarcastic, and unbelieving, perhaps I should have asked that!

Now, if you were not and meant it as a instructional explaination by your mother that you hold to then fine.

🙂
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Truth is Truth, even if it comes from the Devil himself.
 
Kitty_Chan said:
Well long definations aside, I was actually reading in context.

You paralled it to a mother reading a bedtime story to a child. My protestant mom (of a church I no longer attend) told me a story (you left that church because you dont agree with it, so why would I think it was any more than a fiction account in your eyes.)

Add that to sola scripture, no authority etc, It seems like you were being sarcastic, and unbelieving, perhaps I should have asked that!

Now, if you were not and meant it as a instructional explaination by your mother that you hold to then fine.

🙂
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Staying within the confines of the Bible, why did God create Satan at all if God is all knowng Past, Present, and Future? Most of her story which she believes to be true has little or no basis in scrpture. As for what the RCC teaches about Satan is of little concern with respect to my daily walk with Christ. What does concern me is step-mother that tells a story of Satan which has litle no basis in scrpture but at the same times denounces the RCC for the same reasons.

Here is another story told by the same person when I asked about speaking in tongues.

Tongue speaking is a special language given to each individual which is a direct channel to God and the person is talking to God and God is talking back. This speaking in tongues is the sign of full sanctification. Biblical?
 
Some say he couldn’t accept the fact that Our Lady would have a higher place than him in heaven. :harp:
 
I think being the most powerful, and beautiful Angel, when to his Head.
 
JoeyWarren said:
Staying within the confines of the Bible, why did God create Satan at all if God is all knowng Past, Present, and Future? Most of her story which she believes to be true has little or no basis in scrpture. As for what the RCC teaches about Satan is of little concern with respect to my daily walk with Christ. What does concern me is step-mother that tells a story of Satan which has litle no basis in scrpture but at the same times denounces the RCC for the same reasons.
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I felt you were annoyed, so seriously what specifically in her story is not accurate. I read what Nita said and it seems similar but perhaps Im automatically filling in blanks. So what bugs you?
Here is another story told by the same person when I asked about speaking in tongues.

Tongue speaking is a special language given to each individual which is a direct channel to God and the person is talking to God and God is talking back. This speaking in tongues is the sign of full sanctification. Biblical?
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Well hope not or Im on a highway to hell 😉 The brother-in-love actually witnessed a person stand up in church, say something and someone interperted. So I know its there, but just like any other sign or wonder, its not “necessary”.
 
Kitty_Chan said:
I felt you were annoyed, so seriously what specifically in her story is not accurate. I read what Nita said and it seems similar but perhaps Im automatically filling in blanks. So what bugs you?
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The whole story as a whole is not biblical. Now unless of of course you want to provide ample scripture to support the story that I may have overlooked in my 5 complete front to back readings of the bible?

Here is the story with a part I initially left out in red but remember now.

Originally Posted by JoeyWarren forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
There are al types of stories. Such as this one.
Satan was the supreme angel. Satan was the most beautiful creature in Heaven.
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When God created man, a being without any light or power and God let it be known that these creatures would one day inherit the kingdom of God and reign with Jesus, he saw his own importance diminished since these men would be above him in stature and prominence. He naturally rebeled himself and decided to try and prevent this humans from being placed above him.*
Johnnysaid
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Apart from the reference to Jesus isn’t that from the Qur’an?
 
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