Why did St. Francis ban Gregorian chant?

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When I first learned to pray the divine office I was taught to do so by a Dominican priest. Having learned from a Dominican I was taught to chant the hours rather than simply reciting them. I remember he made a joke about how Franciscans never chant because they want to get back to work and Benedictines never stop (or something similar).

So I know that St Francis banned Gregorian chant, but I can’t find any explanation of why he did so. Sts. Francis and Dominic were contemporaries and I’ve always heard stories (legends) of them trading belts/cords upon meeting so it can’t be just a separation of the times in which they lived. So why did St Francis ban it when St Dominic (or his children) embraced it so readily? Was there a theological reason, some reason he believed it somehow harmed the community, or did St. Francis simply dislike it?
 
When I first learned to pray the divine office I was taught to do so by a Dominican priest. Having learned from a Dominican I was taught to chant the hours rather than simply reciting them. I remember he made a joke about how Franciscans never chant because they want to get back to work and Benedictines never stop (or something similar).

So I know that St Francis banned Gregorian chant, but I can’t find any explanation of why he did so. Sts. Francis and Dominic were contemporaries and I’ve always heard stories (legends) of them trading belts/cords upon meeting so it can’t be just a separation of the times in which they lived. So why did St Francis ban it when St Dominic (or his children) embraced it so readily? Was there a theological reason, some reason he believed it somehow harmed the community, or did St. Francis simply dislike it?
Thanks for the thread, I was wondering the same thing today.
God bless you 🙂
 
Maybe St. Francis liked music!
So he would have banned the stuff that is sang in most US parishes also? 😃

I don’t want this to turn into chant vs contemporary music thread. I really am looking for is information not opinions or conjectures. 😉
 
St. Francis and the friars were men of the people, closely associated with ordinary, everyday man. He encouraged the friars to sing very simple songs in the vernacular.

-Tim-
 
Some of the Friars were illiterate and didn’t know Latin (as were many people) - so for them he instituted the Franciscan Crown as a way of praying the office more simply.
 
Some of the Friars were illiterate and didn’t know Latin (as were many people) - so for them he instituted the Franciscan Crown as a way of praying the office more simply.
That sounds much likelier than a “ban” on chant, however, the Catholic Encyclopedia, s.v. “Francis of Assisi” states:

The Franciscan Crown dates back to the year 1422.

Is there better research which dates it to Francis’s time?
 
That sounds much likelier than a “ban” on chant, however, the Catholic Encyclopedia, s.v. “Francis of Assisi” states:

The Franciscan Crown dates back to the year 1422.

Is there better research which dates it to Francis’s time?
I dunno - that’s what the Friars taught me when I was in formation with them.

We were told that Francis brought back prayer beads from the muslims he met, and he recreated them to pray with rather than “worry” with. And he used them to replace the office for those who couldn’t read.
 
When I first learned to pray the divine office I was taught to do so by a Dominican priest. Having learned from a Dominican I was taught to chant the hours rather than simply reciting them. I remember he made a joke about how Franciscans never chant because they want to get back to work and Benedictines never stop (or something similar).

So I know that St Francis banned Gregorian chant, but I can’t find any explanation of why he did so. Sts. Francis and Dominic were contemporaries and I’ve always heard stories (legends) of them trading belts/cords upon meeting so it can’t be just a separation of the times in which they lived. So why did St Francis ban it when St Dominic (or his children) embraced it so readily? Was there a theological reason, some reason he believed it somehow harmed the community, or did St. Francis simply dislike it?
Maybe he didn’t like it.🤷

It could really be something that simple.
 
Could you provide a reputable source to back up this claim?
Ad Orientem, that is part of what I am trying to understand. I have basically been told this by two Dominicans and the couple Franciscans I have talked to about it. Brother JREducation also regularly reminds us that St. Francis did not allow the use of Gregorian chant in his houses. That being said I can not find where, when or why (if) he said it so I suspect it is part of Franciscan tradition.
 
St. Francis and the friars were men of the people, closely associated with ordinary, everyday man. He encouraged the friars to sing very simple songs in the vernacular.

-Tim-
Some of the Friars were illiterate and didn’t know Latin (as were many people) - so for them he instituted the Franciscan Crown as a way of praying the office more simply.
Thank you both. So if his beef was with Latin or with complex music did he also ban the use of Latin in the mass? Did he also ban early polyphony such as the ars antiqua?

It seems there is a big difference between encouraging the use of the vernacular and banning the use of Latin and by extension Gregorian chant. Did he see the use of Latin as spiritually detrimental to the people? Every time I’ve heard it discussed it is implied that it was more than a simple act of discouraging the use of Gregorian chant.
 
When I first learned to pray the divine office I was taught to do so by a Dominican priest. Having learned from a Dominican I was taught to chant the hours rather than simply reciting them. I remember he made a joke about how Franciscans never chant because they want to get back to work and Benedictines never stop (or something similar).

So I know that St Francis banned Gregorian chant, but I can’t find any explanation of why he did so. Sts. Francis and Dominic were contemporaries and I’ve always heard stories (legends) of them trading belts/cords upon meeting so it can’t be just a separation of the times in which they lived. So why did St Francis ban it when St Dominic (or his children) embraced it so readily? Was there a theological reason, some reason he believed it somehow harmed the community, or did St. Francis simply dislike it?
It had nothing to do with the Dominicans. Francis and Clare wanted one family of brothers and sisters. The trend of the time was to have parallel communities.

For example, monks has lay brothers and choir monks. Nuns had lay sisters and choir nuns. Dominicans had Fathers and Cooperator Brothers.

The choir monks, choir nuns and fathers chanted the Divine Office in choir. The lay brothers, lay sisters and cooperator brothers prayed the Office of the Paters. The also prayed less hours, because their role was to keep the house running. They did all of the manual labor.

Francis and Clare wanted the entire family, religious and seculars, ordained and non ordained, to pray together.

It was also a Benedictine custom that those who could not chant, even if they could read Latin, were considered not to have a vocation to the monastic life. They were admitted as lay brothers, but not as choir monks. This reduced the lay brothers to a lower class, often times considered less intelligent and less talented.

In the Franciscan tradition, such a distinction only served to inflate the ego of those who could read and chant. This was to be avoided.

Finally, the male Franciscans were not to make any distinctions between priests, brothers and laity. Everyone was called Brother, be he a priest, a brother or a layman. Only Francis and his successors were called Father. To follow Dominic’s model would be to created a friar who would be different from his confreres who were not ordained.

This was fine for the Dominicans, because they were founded as an order of nuns and priests. The cooperator brothers were a support system. That’s not how the Franciscan family came about. Among the first followers of Francis there was only one priest and 9 laymen + Francis.

There is no big mystery here and nothing against Gregorian Chant. It was an attempt to preserve collegiality. Franciscans adopted it from the College of the Apostles, meaning “equals under one father”. Hence the term “the Apostolic Life”.
 
It’s a serious question. How do you celebrate Mass in 13th century Italy without Gregorian Chant? No singing at all, ever?
Have you ever watched mass on EWTN?

If not, you may want to do so. We use plain chant, which is neither polyphony nor Gregorian chant. Anyone can chant it without needing a great voice or knowing how to read notes.

As to the hymns: entrance, offertory, communion, exit, we used the regular hymns that others used, most of which were probably composed in Germany. Francis did write some hymns in Italian. Other friars also wrote other hymns in the local languages, not to mention some Latin hymns such as Pange Lingua, which is not Gregorian chant. There was a lot of music to choose from.

There was a lot of singing, just no Gregorian chant.
 
Whenever I’ve been in parishes administered by Franciscan fathers, the congregational singing is always wonderful, and the priests always join in wholeheartedly! There seems to be a great love of music among the Franciscans.
 
Francis actually spoke Provençal, the local patois. He realised that the ordinary people had no link with latin, and encouraged the use of the vernacular, His great masterpices were not writtn in Latin,but in a simple Italian
 
Whenever I’ve been in parishes administered by Franciscan fathers, the congregational singing is always wonderful, and the priests always join in wholeheartedly! There seems to be a great love of music among the Franciscans.
Franciscan Friars, not Fathers. There is on such an order. LOL
Francis actually spoke Provençal, the local patois. He realised that the ordinary people had no link with latin, and encouraged the use of the vernacular, His great masterpices were not writtn in Latin,but in a simple Italian
He spoke Provencal and French. French was his mother tongue. Many people don’t know this. That’s how he got the nickname, Francesco. His real name is Giovanni Batista Bernadone.

He was the first Italian poet and song writer.
 
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