Why did St. Pius V banish the Jews from the Papal States?

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I have been looking all over for a link to the original document, I haven’t been able to find one anywhere. I’ve ask quite a few people around my local area, and no one has ever heard of this. The only thing I’ve been able to find is references to the documents from sites that most would consider less then friendly to Catholics and Catholic doctrines… I’m not saying it’s all made up, but it’s odd not to be able to find a link to original material…
Indeed, I have looked the History of Catholicism by Bookeheimer and Catholicism and found no Reference to Pius V and his take on the Jews.

I also looked in the book The Popes against the Jews and the index had no reference to Pius V.

I would love to find the truth on this.
 
Indeed, I have looked the History of Catholicism by Bookeheimer and Catholicism and found no Reference to Pius V and his take on the Jews.

I also looked in the book The Popes against the Jews and the index had no reference to Pius V.

I would love to find the truth on this.
books.google.com/books?id=VOshAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA57&dq=Bull+Hebraeorum+gens&hl=en&ei=KrjXTuW3IMj28QO7vZTmDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFMQ6AEwCDgo#v=onepage&q=Bull%20Hebraeorum%20gens&f=false
 
That still doesn’t answer the tough question as to why a Saint would do this. I am a fan of Pius V and what he did for the mass. What I am not a fan of is how God’s representative could do this.

I understand the time and how Europe did not recognize these people but this is the Pope. He should be divinely lead and he is a Saint.
It’s also possible they were banned to prevent them from loaning money to Church enemies. Because the Church was against usury many of the royalty went to Jews to borrow money to pay for armies. If the Jews were backing Church enemies the Church would expel them as a threat. But that is only my speculation.

People often forget that even Saints commit sins.
 
That still doesn’t answer the tough question as to why a Saint would do this. I am a fan of Pius V and what he did for the mass. What I am not a fan of is how God’s representative could do this.

I understand the time and how Europe did not recognize these people but this is the Pope. He should be divinely lead and he is a Saint.
Nobody is perfect. I mean, St. Peter denied Christ thrice! Lets not think saints lived perfect saintly lives on earth. While they at some point in their lives they grew in faith so much that they became an epitome of Christian life, we must understand that they haven’t lived that way for their entire lives. That is why we look up to them, because they were like us in every way, but found out how to get to a saintly level.
 
Indeed, I have looked the History of Catholicism by Bookeheimer and Catholicism and found no Reference to Pius V and his take on the Jews.

I also looked in the book The Popes against the Jews and the index had no reference to Pius V.

I would love to find the truth on this.
no you won’t because as I said, you may have missed it, he didn’t do it, it was another pope who is not btw a saint.
 
no you won’t because as I said, you may have missed it, he didn’t do it, it was another pope who is not btw a saint.
I believe your confusion arises because there is a continuum of anti-Jewish Papal Bulls by different Popes. In the case of Pius V we are referring to Hebraeorum gens from February 26, 1569 and in the case of Paul IV we referring to Cum Nimis Absurdum from July 14, 1555.

A few of the more salient points of Cum Nimis Absurdum: Jews are to live in ghettos where they are locked up at night (this may be seen as de facto expulsion to a particular area) . They must wear something yellow at all times as a sign that they are Jewish, they are allowed one synagogue per town and all other synagogues are to be destroyed, they may only carry out the trade of rag picking and they were not allowed to own any property which was to be sold to Christians (or in other words massive theft of all Jewish property by the Church).

As to the reasons behind these edicts: The concept that the Jews murdered Jesus and rejected the Christian god. From that perspective, it was almost inconceivable that the Jews guilty of such horrendous acts, would not live in abject misery, would be as well off as a true believing Christian. The second reason is the concept that Jews and Judaism are a malignant anti-Christian force from which Christians and Christianity must be protected. Where you have Jews, Christian children are found murdered, Eucharists are desecrated, wells are poisoned, the plague breaks out, Christian women are debauched, Christians are lead astray from their morality and from their religion. The only way to protect Christians from this was to isolate the Jew totally from the Christian.
 
I did not start this thread and am merely giving information. I do believe these things have to be learned and understood by Catholics.
 
I believe your confusion arises because there is a continuum of anti-Jewish Papal Bulls by different Popes. In the case of Pius V we are referring to Hebraeorum gens from February 26, 1569 and in the case of Paul IV we referring to Cum Nimis Absurdum from July 14, 1555.

A few of the more salient points of Cum Nimis Absurdum: Jews are to live in ghettos where they are locked up at night (this may be seen as de facto expulsion to a particular area) . They must wear something yellow at all times as a sign that they are Jewish, they are allowed one synagogue per town and all other synagogues are to be destroyed, they may only carry out the trade of rag picking and they were not allowed to own any property which was to be sold to Christians (or in other words massive theft of all Jewish property by the Church).

As to the reasons behind these edicts: The concept that the Jews murdered Jesus and rejected the Christian god. From that perspective, it was almost inconceivable that the Jews guilty of such horrendous acts, would not live in abject misery, would be as well off as a true believing Christian. The second reason is the concept that Jews and Judaism are a malignant anti-Christian force from which Christians and Christianity must be protected. Where you have Jews, Christian children are found murdered, Eucharists are desecrated, wells are poisoned, the plague breaks out, Christian women are debauched, Christians are lead astray from their morality and from their religion. The only way to protect Christians from this was to isolate the Jew totally from the Christian.
Actually chosen people, while it is true SOME Christians thought that the Jews were responsible for the black plague, ritual murder and what not, the CHurch condemend such beliefs and when they truly were persecuted, the CHurch condemned violence agaisnt them and forced conversion as this thread and my posts show: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=624145. In fact, when the kingdoms of Spain and Portugal expeleld their Jews form their lands, it was the Popes who welcomed them and let them live in their own lands.

And I hate to say this but in my opinion, the Church treated the Jews no better (or even better in a mild way) than other heretics of the times. Whereas the Church didn’t give either Jews or Protestants political power as obviously the Papal States were a theocracy, the Jews in their ghettos were a society within a society. The were’only permitted to live in the ghettos as a society within a society and not as a prison and the intent of the distinctive clothing law was implemented only for Christians to not mix in with them and that the two may be as seperate as possible. It was excessive and the clothing was humiliating to the Jews but it wasn’t done with the intent of racism, just as misguided attempt at protecting the faith. Incidentally, I consider the building of ghettos as not mean at all because not only did rabbis and Jews themselves support their building but they varied from region to region. Some were poor like that of Rome, others were rich like that of Venice. Besides, if the Church did permit Jews o wear distinctive clothing and live in ghettos, IT ALSO FORCED MUSLIMS TO DO THE SAME IN THE MIDDLE AGES.

Another thing that should be noted is that Pope Paul IV’s bull, while very harsh even for that time, was modified by his sucessors, such as Sixtus V and while Clement VIII didn’t let Jews in Avignon (and only in Avignon which was under the Popes power at that time), to sell new goods and again permitted Jews in his states to live in ghettos, he removed alot the laws Pius IV decreed and let them have proper jobs and to even sell outside ghettos. And for the the record, Jews were permitted to read the Talmud; Christians were not unless it was a serious reason, such as if you’re a theologian and want to study what the Jews think. And when the Popes said that the Jews should be subjected to perpetual slavery (and I don’t mean to sound anti-semitic at all here), they didn’t mean literal slavery where all Jews hould be sent to galley ships and what not, they only meant that as their punishment for rejecting Christ they have to live outside of Israel and live under other non-Jewish religious wise leaders.*

Another thing that should be noted is that Paul IV acted outside the realm of the power of the Pope and acted only in their power as leader of the Papal States; he didn’t teach or declare a new doctrine on faith and morals, he only decreed a political law. As for Hebraeorum Gens of Pius V, I can say if it was infallible or not, I don’t have the full text, nor that of Cum Nos Super and I really searched for them online (not to be confused with the Papal Bull Exponi Nobis Super).

It wasn’t a question of race, it was a question of religion. The laws were harsh sometimes, at other times they weren’t, however, the Church in its doctrines was never anti-semitic as if it regarded the Jewish race as bad, it was anti-judaism. If the Church was anti-semitic, why the hell did it honor a Jewish Woman, i.e, the Virgin Mary? Why did it have Saints that were Jewish ethnicly, amongst them Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross and Father Avila? Catholic ethnic Jews had the same rights as normal Catholics and there were some Jews that were allowed to live outside of the local ghettos that weren’t Catholic. Saint Ignatius when accused of being Jewish said that it would have been great to have been of the same race as Jesus and Mary and the Apostles. On the Church teaching that the Jews killed Christ, it didn’t mean that they all literally killed Jesus, it only meant that they rejected Him, His doctrines for no reason other than their worldliness.
 
The treatment of the Jews by Christians in past times was indeed terrible…

I do not think we are looking at sufficient information. Also, there are cultures where people believe in allegations before they come to the facts…I mean this on all sides.

I even read that our first President George Washington did not want Jews in our country.

There are all kinds of people on all different levels in all sorts of cultures. But it certainly makes me question the sanctity of such words of a former pope…but yes, indeed, he spoke at the time of the beginning of dismantling of Christianity…

You have to look at the cultural conditions, the interactions between Jews and Christians more in depth.

The Jews consider the most sacred place the Mercy Seat. The Eucharist is the fulfillment, the incarnation of the Mercy Seat. There were Jews and Muslims receiving the Eucharist without faith in Spain, and the temporal rulers wanted Spain ruled by Catholic Spanish. I don’t have the references handy, but some Jewish quarters were causing serious political problems in the society…but what were they and how?..St. Theresa of Avila spoke of her conversation with Jews, open conversations where they openly criticized faith in Christ, but the disagreement revolved around religion, nothing more.
 
Actually chosen people, while it is true SOME Christians thought that the Jews were responsible for the black plague, ritual murder and what not, the CHurch condemend such beliefs and when they truly were persecuted, the CHurch condemned violence agaisnt them and forced conversion as this thread and my posts show: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=624145. In fact, when the kingdoms of Spain and Portugal expeleld their Jews form their lands, it was the Popes who welcomed them and let them live in their own lands.

And I hate to say this but in my opinion, the Church treated the Jews no better (or even better in a mild way) than other heretics of the times. Whereas the Church didn’t give either Jews or Protestants political power as obviously the Papal States were a theocracy, the Jews in their ghettos were a society within a society. The were’only permitted to live in the ghettos as a society within a society and not as a prison and the intent of the distinctive clothing law was implemented only for Christians to not mix in with them and that the two may be as seperate as possible. It was excessive and the clothing was humiliating to the Jews but it wasn’t done with the intent of racism, just as misguided attempt at protecting the faith. Incidentally, I consider the building of ghettos as not mean at all because not only did rabbis and Jews themselves support their building but they varied from region to region. Some were poor like that of Rome, others were rich like that of Venice. Besides, if the Church did permit Jews o wear distinctive clothing and live in ghettos, IT ALSO FORCED MUSLIMS TO DO THE SAME IN THE MIDDLE AGES.

Another thing that should be noted is that Pope Paul IV’s bull, while very harsh even for that time, was modified by his sucessors, such as Sixtus V and while Clement VIII didn’t let Jews in Avignon (and only in Avignon which was under the Popes power at that time), to sell new goods and again permitted Jews in his states to live in ghettos, he removed alot the laws Pius IV decreed and let them have proper jobs and to even sell outside ghettos. And for the the record, Jews were permitted to read the Talmud; Christians were not unless it was a serious reason, such as if you’re a theologian and want to study what the Jews think. And when the Popes said that the Jews should be subjected to perpetual slavery (and I don’t mean to sound anti-semitic at all here), they didn’t mean literal slavery where all Jews hould be sent to galley ships and what not, they only meant that as their punishment for rejecting Christ they have to live outside of Israel and live under other non-Jewish religious wise leaders.*

Another thing that should be noted is that Paul IV acted outside the realm of the power of the Pope and acted only in their power as leader of the Papal States; he didn’t teach or declare a new doctrine on faith and morals, he only decreed a political law. As for Hebraeorum Gens of Pius V, I can say if it was infallible or not, I don’t have the full text, nor that of Cum Nos Super and I really searched for them online (not to be confused with the Papal Bull Exponi Nobis Super).

It wasn’t a question of race, it was a question of religion. The laws were harsh sometimes, at other times they weren’t, however, the Church in its doctrines was never anti-semitic as if it regarded the Jewish race as bad, it was anti-judaism. If the Church was anti-semitic, why the hell did it honor a Jewish Woman, i.e, the Virgin Mary? Why did it have Saints that were Jewish ethnicly, amongst them Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross and Father Avila? Catholic ethnic Jews had the same rights as normal Catholics and there were some Jews that were allowed to live outside of the local ghettos that weren’t Catholic. Saint Ignatius when accused of being Jewish said that it would have been great to have been of the same race as Jesus and Mary and the Apostles. On the Church teaching that the Jews killed Christ, it didn’t mean that they all literally killed Jesus, it only meant that they rejected Him, His doctrines for no reason other than their worldliness.
First, we should come to grips with the fact that Jews will invariably act in their illogical Jewish manner and indeed no one should be surprised if this behavior engenders hate and persecutions by non-Jews:

Here are two small examples:

azcentral.com/community/chandler/articles/2011/09/02/20110902chandler-san-marcos-jewish0902.html

israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/122137#.Tud04WO4qnA

As clear from your post we can certainly understand what the Church did the Jews and it would be uncharitable to say the least to not understand the necessity for these actions.

If only people would pray for the Jews as St. Bridget taught:

O Jesus! Creator of heaven and earth, Whom nothing can encompass nor limit, Thou Who dost enfold and hold all under Thy loving power, remember the very bitter pain which Thou didst suffer when blow by blow and with hatred the Jews nailed Thy Sacred Hands and Feet to the Cross, with big blunt nails; and, not finding Thee in a pitiable enough state to satisfy their rage, they enlarged Thy wounds, and added pain to pain, and with indescribable cruelty stretched Thy Body on the Cross, and dislocated Thy Bones by pulling them on all sides.
 
First of all chosen people, I read some of your posts and you used the illogical manner Jews think which you described in at least one of your posts and whether you’re serious or not, its not just Jews who think illogically, its everybody. No one is exempt from doing stupid things and if you read my other posts, you’ll see that I in no way support putting distinctive clothing on Jews to humiliate them, nor do I support putting them in ghettos as a society within a society, except if they want to.

Of course what the Popes, specifically Paul IV, Pius V and Clement VIII did to the Jews was unnecessary and excessive. I’m not talking about not letting them having positions in government because since the Papal States were a theocracy, it’d make no sense in appointing a non-catholic to govern a Catholic country as he’d change alot of catholic morals into non-catholic ones. I’m not even talking about not letting unbaptized Jews marry Christians; we still can’t do it today and of course, its not anti-semitic or hateful to not marry someone because of his different religion. What was truly excessive was implementing laws forcing Jews to stand out and expelling them from your country, even though only two Popes actually expelled Jews from their own country. It was excessive even by the standards of those times and though the Church never ordered Jews to be killed, it discriminated against them by these laws.

And really, chosen people? I read those two links and instead of finding them funny or poignant, I find them offensive and sickening, not because of their content, oh no, the content is absolutely, 100% fine, its because of your insolence. How can we find a Jewish professor defending students form gun fire as bad or evil or crazy? Were the Bishops who defended the Jews in the crusades insane? Was Saint Bernard out of his mind when he rebuked the crusaders for killing Jews? Was Pius XII retarded for saving so many Jews? Oscar Schindler? Pfft! Those Jews that appeared at the end of Schindlers list were all CIA agents! Hahahaha! NOOOOO! Of course they weren’t! And neither were the Jews whom Oscar Schindler saved CIA agents for that matter. In fact, go see Schindlers List as it is an excellent movie.

Incidentally, we don’t find fault with the Jews simply because they do good things while remaining Jewish, we find fault with their heresies. Even if, for the sake of argument, the Popes never put Jews in ghettos or put so many job restrictions on them, they would still have condemned Judaism for its heresies and rejection of Christ and in that case, I side with the Church. And don’t give me the argument that I support the killing of heretics. As David Goldstein said, the Inquisition didn’t kill people, the state did. The Inquisition was only there to protect the purity of faith and they only handed the unrepentant heretics over to the state. It is no more guilty of murder as a jury is guilty of sending a man to the electric chair. Another thing, while it is true the Inquisition aimed at rooting out conversos, which meant those Jews and Muslims who were a)forced to convert to Christianity because to escape persecution by crazy mobs but practiced Judaism in secret, or b) those Jews/Muslims who willingly converted only so that they may undermine the Church from within, do you know how many of the possibly tens of thousands of Jews who were forced to convert were killed by the Spanish Inquisition during its more than a hundred year run? between 4000 and 5000, alot of them not even being conversos but heretics of other sects. Hardly a Jewish genocide, and this was the Inquisition that was the most corrupt.

Why am I still Catholic? Why are you still Jewish I should ask? I’ll admit that Catholics of the past did commit discrimination and sometimes were atrocious yet that doesn’t mean that my faith is invalid. If you don’t know mister, anybody can commit atrocities, Jews themselves included. It was Jews who were responsible for the 1948 Palestinian Exodus, the forced conversion of Edomites by the High Priest Hyrcanus.If there was such an abuse in Judaism why don’t you quit it? According to David Goldstein who himself was ethnically Jewish:

*This gross injustice was imposed upon the Idumeans, who were given the choice of submitting to circumcision or being driven out of their native cities. The difference between attempts at forced conversions by persons who were Catholic in name rather than in spirit, and the forced conversions imposed by the Jews, is that the popes condemned the action, whereas it was the Jewish Pope, High Priest Johanan Hyrcanus, Prince of the Hasmoneans, who led in the infliction of this gross injustice. This was in the Year 130 B.C., when the Jewish Church was the one, and the only Church of God, as the Catholic Church has been since Old Testament Judaism ceased to exist. *

Forced conversion was condemned by the Popes, which didn’t include these discriminatory laws against Jews. But anyway, why are you still Jewish despite that? I don’t know about you but why do other Jews support Israel and Zionism despite its many abuses? Should a thing be judged by the abuses it suffers from?

And BTW, you got that prayer of Saint Bridget from her 15 prayers. Nothing new there, the Jews present there certainly were responsible for killing Jesus and even though they didn’t literally nail him to the cross, alot of them, Pharisees included did. At one time they even tried to stone Him. If you deny that that did happen, how can we be friends? Its like telling a Jew to be friends with a holocaust denier, or an African person with Boswell, you just don’t do it.
 
Our Israelitish Brethren
By James Parton
OCTOBER 1870 ATLANTIC MAGAZINE (excerpt concerning Jews of Rome under Papal State rule)

"Without troubling the reader with a catalogue of similar facts, I can convey some idea of the scorn in which Jews were once held in a more convenient manner by showing how they are now treated in the city of Rome,—Rome being a fragment of the Past preserved, like an Elgin marble, for the inspection of the moderns. In 1860, when there was talk of a congress of European powers for the settlement of international questions, the Jews of Rome prepared a petition for presentation to it, in which some of their grievances were stated. From this paper we learn that no Jew in Rome can be an artist, nor be a pupil in a school of art, nor frequent a public gallery for practice in art. No college, medical school, law school, or scientific institution can receive a Jewish student. No Jew can exercise a mechanical trade, except cobbling shoes. Cruellest and absurdest of all, no Jew, fond as he is of music, and gifted as his race is in music, can sing in public or play on an instrument. “Woe to the Hebrew,” says the petition, “who dares sing or play in public; for the police and the Holy Office immediately pounce upon him and punish the offence with severe penalties.” This is the more abominable, because nature has signalized this people, not so touch by superiority of understanding, as by talent. The gifted among them are formed to sing, to play, to compose, to carve, to paint, to personate, to excel in all those arts by which human nature is enchanted and exalted by being exhibited to itself.
Edmond About’s report of the condition of the Jews in Rome is fresh in the recollection of many. He glances backward at the time, not remote, when every evening at the hour Christians go to the theatre the gates of the Jews’ quarter were locked for the night; when on days of holy festival Jews were made to run races for the amusement of Christians; when every year a city official gave them a representative kick, an honor for which they had to pay four thousand francs; when they were compelled to present publicly to every new Pope a Bible; when they were obliged to pay the salary of a Christian priest employed to preach a sermon to them every Saturday, and they could only avoid attending this service by paying a fine; when their Ghetto bred such deadly pestilence, that some of them almost lost the semblance of humanity, and “they might have been mistaken for beasts, if one had not known them to be intelligent beings, apt for business, resigned to their lot, simple in their requirements, kind-hearted, devoted to their families, and irreproachable in their conduct.” Such was their condition in Rome. M. About tells us what it is. The present Pope, he reminds us, has indeed taken away the gates of the Ghetto, so that Jews can go about the city after dark; he has dispensed them from the annual kick and its annual price, and he has closed the church to which they were required to go on Saturdays to be converted.

But the author adds; “I secretly questioned two well-known inhabitants of the Ghetto. When they understood why I concerned myself with their affairs, the poor men exclaimed; 'For Heaven’s sake, do not publish that we are wretched; that the Pope actively regrets his concessions of 1847; that doors invisible, but impassable, close the Ghetto, and that our condition is worse than ever. All that you might say in our behalf would be visited upon us, and instead of benefiting you would injure us.”’ The inquirer visited the Ghetto, in the low ground near the Tiber, and found it “the most horrible and neglected quarter of the town,” in which not the humblest of the thousand prelates about Rome would set his foot, any more than as Indian Brahmin would cross the threshold of a Pariah’s hovel. "I learned,” says this author, “that the most humble employment in the most humble office would as soon be given to a beast as to a Jew; that for a child of Israel to ask in Rome to be employed as a commissary, would he more absurd than for the giraffe of the Jardin des Plantes to ask for an under-prefectship in Paris.” No Jew can own a foot of land in the papal dominions, nor cultivate one, unless in the name of a Christian; and if a Jew, using this artifice, ventures to cultivate a garden or a farm, his harvest is safe from pillage only so long as the legal device remains a secret. Let but the Christians around learn that the harvest is the property of an Israelite, and “a rage for plunder” seizes them, which leaves the hapless proprietor with desolated fields.

This is the testimony of a witness who is prejudiced, as all modernized minds are prejudiced, against government by priests. Let me summon another witness, a Christian who writes to L’Ami d’Israel an account of his visit to the Roman Ghetto; “It is situated on the borders of the Tiber, in a place subject to inundations; the population is confined in narrow, dirty streets; and although the Jews are much too numerous for this small quarter, they are not allowed to take up their abode beyond the limits of the Ghetto. The closing of the gates is discontinued, but the prohibition as to residence remains the same. I was struck with the activity and industry of the Jews; for while one sees a great many idlers and crowds of beggars in Rome itself, in the Ghetto every one is at work, and there is not a beggar visible.” The struggle for life, this writer remarks, is so severe, that out of a population of more than four thousand, two thousand five hundred are extremely poor, and in part dependent upon the charity of their neighbors"
 
What I did read of the relation of Jews in Spain is that those in government were working against it…What happened in Rome is terrible…but there are two sides to the story…

How did the Jews relate to Christians?

Did the desire of the Jews to have dominion over their own country go to the extremes as in Rome during the 1800’s…that was a time as well that there was alot of inhumanity done to humanity in many quarters…

Thank you Chosen People for bringing this to the light…it is painful but necessary.
 
I believe your confusion arises because there is a continuum of anti-Jewish Papal Bulls by different Popes. In the case of Pius V we are referring to Hebraeorum gens from February 26, 1569 and in the case of Paul IV we referring to Cum Nimis Absurdum from July 14, 1555.

A few of the more salient points of Cum Nimis Absurdum: Jews are to live in ghettos where they are locked up at night (this may be seen as de facto expulsion to a particular area) . They must wear something yellow at all times as a sign that they are Jewish, they are allowed one synagogue per town and all other synagogues are to be destroyed, they may only carry out the trade of rag picking and they were not allowed to own any property which was to be sold to Christians (or in other words massive theft of all Jewish property by the Church).

As to the reasons behind these edicts: The concept that the Jews murdered Jesus and rejected the Christian god. From that perspective, it was almost inconceivable that the Jews guilty of such horrendous acts, would not live in abject misery, would be as well off as a true believing Christian. The second reason is the concept that Jews and Judaism are a malignant anti-Christian force from which Christians and Christianity must be protected. Where you have Jews, Christian children are found murdered, Eucharists are desecrated, wells are poisoned, the plague breaks out, Christian women are debauched, Christians are lead astray from their morality and from their religion. The only way to protect Christians from this was to isolate the Jew totally from the Christian.
The Nicene Creed was written in the 4th century AD. We say it at Mass today. In it, Pontius Pilate is cited as being the person responsible for Christ’s death. There is no mention of the Jews. Apparently, the early chuch did not hold the Jews responsible. The earliest Christians were Jews. The Holy Family were Jews. These early Christians first practiced their religion in Jews areas. Our Last Supper was the Lord’s Passover dinner. I think if these things had been emphasised in our religious upbringing, we would have been made more tolerant.
The history of Jewish persecution is unbelievable and unrelenting. Strangers in foreign lands make people fearful of things they do not understand. Blacks, American Indians, Asians, Irish, Armenians, all have been shunned, ignored, and victimized, and killed. Christians suffered same under the Romans.
 
I read the whole article and I ask, if you knew that the writer is extremely biased and prejudiced, why post it at all? I researched a little and this guy, James Parston also said:* “…If you trace up Masonry, through all its Orders, till you come to the grand tip-top, head Mason of the World, you will discover that the dread individual and the Chief of the Society of Jesus [Ed.: i.e., the Jesuit Superior General] are one and the same person.”)* I’m not against conspiracy theorists but when I see a website saying tha the Jesuits want to take over the world, I immediately turn it off as such conspiracy theories have no basis in reality at all.

It makes the Jews look excssively pathetic and weak As I said, there were many restrictions on Jews but really, nowhere and I mean literally nowhere did I read that Jews were forbidden to play musical instruments. Why would the Pope not let Jews practice musical instruments or sing in public? I imagine singing in public was a good way to earn money for poor people I don’t know why the Pope wouldn’t let them sing.

Incidentally, E. About was an anti-clerical; not only that but nobody could opress the Jews by forcing them to run races naked, according to wikipedia. I doubt very, very much how this happened and if it did, according to another article it was turned into a horse race. Incidentally, if itm did happen, it was during the Carnival and the only Catholics who would do that were so in name only because the Popes forbade harrassing the Jews and Bishop Annibale Ruccelai decreed in this bill:

BILL
That forbids anybody to harass or to annoy the Jews.

In order to put an end to the scandal and inconvenience caused by the trouble and the mockeries endured by the Jews every day, the most Illustrious and Reverend Annibale Rucellai, Bishop of Carcassonne, and of the Holy City of Rome and its district, Governor-General, and Vice-chamberlain, by the express wish of his Holiness the Pope, by means of this Bill orders, prohibits and commands that no person, of any rank or social position, may dare in any way to harass or cause hindrance of any kind, either direct or indirect, to any Jew, either male or female, boy or girl, nor mock them, touch them, nor give them offence, either with words or in fact, either during the day or at night-time, either openly or secretly, under the penalty for Christian men of three tugs of the rope, and for women and children of the lash, and to the additional punishment they would be given if they had offended a Christian, and declares that the masters will be held responsible for their servants, the fathers for their children, the teachers for their students, and the sentence will be strictly carried out, and the most Reverend Governor reserves the right of increasing or reducing the sanction, according to the seriousness of the offence and the persons involved, and everybody beware not to disobey.

Another thing that should be noted is that one of the Popes of that time, Leo XII was according to one writer a ‘‘ferocious fanatic’’. He was very unpopular with his subjects, Catholics included as he made so many laws that had to be observed. However, Pius VIII, Gregory XVI and Pius IX were more kind and even removed some of the unfair laws Leo XII made. For a VERY unbiased look on this subject, look at Frank. J Coppa’s The papacy, the Jews, and the Holocaust. I haven’t read the whole book admittedly but I’ve read the part where he speaks about some of the most modern Popes, from Pius VII to Gregory XVI and it shows that they weren’t that bad at all. Its like a Song of Ice and Fire only its real this time and much less bloody and is found on googlebooks.

As I said, the non-infallible actions of Catholics do not retard my belief in the Catholic faith nor do they make it invalid, especially since anti-semitism is something condemned by the Church and since the actions of MANY Catholics in favour of the Jews show that the Church is far from evil. Of course chosenpeople, by your posts you seem to think the Vatican is out kill Jews and rid the world of them even despite all the help they and Catholic gave them through world war II and despite the fact we never ordered Jews to be killed simply for being Jewish but rather discriminated against them. As I said, why are you still Jewish in your religion? Jews were responsible for the forced conversion of the Edomites by Jon Hycranus, they were responsible for the 1948 palestinian exodus and killing and crushing numerous villages of innocent Palestinians and Arabs and here is the wikipedia page to prove this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_towns_and_villages_depopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus. They were also responsible for the early persecution of Christians. Of course, not all Jews are like this, just a minority and we’ll be hard pressed to find a Jew who is so vehemently anti-christian that he wants to kill them but since they did commit these atrocities in the past, just as Popes and catholics commited atrocities in the past, why don’t you quit Judaism? Is it true that the actions (and inactions) of individual Jews don’t invalidate the whole faith? Is it true that if a Jew does a good deed he does it not only because he is good but because his religion inspires him so? That Talmud is supposed to say that if one saves on life, he saves the entire world. Isn’t it also true that if a devout Catholic does a good deed its because his religion inspires him to appreciate human life, such as were the actions of Pius XII and Catholics in world war II and those Bishops in the crusades? I don’t think they saved Jews because they like their religion as the Church was always anti-judaism and anti-[insert religion here] and despite saving so many Jews, Pius XII still didn’t recognize Israel as a state in 1948. Does that make him anti-semitic?
 
If you call it a brothel, a den of vice, the devil’s refuge, Satan’s fortress, a place to deprave the soul, an abyss of every conceivable disaster or whatever you will, you are saying less than it deserves." - St. Jerome on the synagogue

“Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people… We ought not, therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews…our worship follows a …more convenient course… we desire, dearest brethren to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the Jews… How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are almost certainly blinded.” - Council of Nicea

“The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot, who sells the Lord for silver. The Jew can never understand the Scriptures and forever will bear the guilt for the death of Jesus.” - St. Augustine

“Let no one in the priestly order nor and layman eat the unleavened bread of the Jews, nor have any familiar intercourse with them, nor summon them in illness, nor receive medicine from them, nor bathe with them; but if anyone shall take in hand to do so, if he is a cleric, let him be deposed, but if a layman, let him be cut off.” -Canon II of the Quinisext Council

"The Jews are the most worthless of all men. They are lecherous, greedy, rapacious. They are perfidious murderers of Christ . . .The Jews are the odious assassins of Christ and for killing God there is no expiation possible, no indulgence or pardon. Christian may never cease vengeance, and the Jews must live in servitude forever. God always hated the Jews. It is incumbent upon all Christians to hate the Jews. – St. John Chrysotom

“The Jews’ guilt of the crucifixion of Jesus consigned them to perpetual servitude, and like Cain, they are to be wanderers and fugitives . . . the Jews will not dare to raise their necks, bowed under the yoke of perpetual slavery, against the reverence of the Christian faith.” - Pope Innocent III

“Know Christians that next to the devil thou hast no enemy more cruel, more venomous and violent than a true Jew.” - Martin Luther

From “Jews and Judaism” Original Catholic Encyclopedia

"The obligation of wearing a distinguishing badge was of course obnoxious to the Jews. At the same time, Church authorities deemed its injunction necessary to prevent effectively moral offenses between Jews and Christian women. The decrees forbidding the Jews from appearing in public at Easter-tide may be justified on the ground that some of them mocked at the Christian processions at that time; those against baptized Jews retaining distinctly Jewish customs find their ready explanation in the necessity for the Church to maintain the purity of the Faith in its members, while those forbidding the Jews from molesting converts to Christianity are no less naturally explained by the desire of doing away with a manifest obstacle to future conversions.

It was for the laudable reason of protecting social morality and securing the maintenance of the Christian Faith, that canonical decrees were framed and repeatedly enforced against free and constant intercourse between Christians and Jews, against, for instance, bathing, living, etc., with Jews. To some extent, likewise, these were the reasons for the institution of the Ghetto or confinement of the Jews to a special quarter, for the prohibition of the Jews from exercising medicine, or other professions. The inhibition of intermarriage between Jews and Christians, which is yet in vigor, is clearly justified by reason of the obvious danger for the faith of the Christian party and for the spiritual welfare of the children born of such alliances. With regard to the special legislation against printing, circulating, etc., the Talmud, there was the particular grievance that the Talmud contained at the time scurrilous attacks upon Jesus and the Christians (cf. Pick, “The Personality of Jesus in the Talmud” in the “Monist”, January, 1910), and the permanent reason that “that extraordinary compilation, with much that is grave and noble, contains also so many puerilities, immoral precepts, and anti-social maxims, that Christian courts may well have deemed it right to resort to stringent measures to prevent Christians from being seduced into adhesion to a system so preposterous” (Catholic Dictionary, 484).

History proves indeed that church authorities exercised at times considerable pressure upon the Jews to promote their conversion;"
 
To have a good idea of the relationship between the Vatican and Jews throughout history I highly recommend the book The Myth of Hitler’s Pope: Pope Pius XII And His Secret War Against Nazi Germany by Rabbi David G. Dalin. Rabbi Dalin and other Jewish scholars are very clear that throughout the history of Europea the Jews had no better friend than the Popes and the Vatican.

Ran
 
To have a good idea of the relationship between the Vatican and Jews throughout history I highly recommend the book The Myth of Hitler’s Pope: Pope Pius XII And His Secret War Against Nazi Germany by Rabbi David G. Dalin. Rabbi Dalin and other Jewish scholars are very clear that throughout the history of Europea the Jews had no better friend than the Popes and the Vatican.

Ran
Perhaps you should also try David Kertzer’s ‘Unholy War’.
 
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