Why did the Catholic church change its position on suicidal deaths?

[Seaborgium]

On wiki,

“According to the theology of the Roman Catholic Church, the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church, Number 2283 states, “We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.” However, the catechism points out that, “Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.” The Catholic Church used to state that suicide was a sin, and that persons committing suicide could not have a Catholic service and burial. However, the Church has since changed this point of view.”

Why did the Church take it upon itself to change this teaching?

Fundamentally, I’m asking why does a church who is known for its permanence take changes like this? It’s not that permanent is it?

 

[Anglewannabe]

First, I would NEVER consult wiki for Catholic church teachings. The only source of Catholic teachings is the Catholic church.

Second, the church NEVER changed it’s teachings. Suicide has always been a sin of grave matter. However as with ALL other sins, for it to be mortal it has to be 1-) premeditated, 2-) full knowledge of the gravity and 3- full consent

As for number 2, only God can judge people’s heart and if the person really knew. Now, if someone is at the point they want to kill themselves, they are obviously in a lot of pain and not thinking clearly. Which is why we can not judge them and we leave judgement to God.

The church came to realise that by not burying them with a Catholic funeral, the church was in essence judging them. The church realized it was a sin to judge, quit doing it and started to give them the same funerals.

After all, that is the life of Catholic, to realize your sins and quit doing them

Angie

 

[1ke]

On wiki,

"According to the theology of the Roman Catholic Church, the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church, Number 2283 states, “We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.” However, the catechism points out that, “Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.” The Catholic Church used to state that suicide was a sin, and that persons committing suicide could not have a Catholic service and burial. However, the Church has since changed this point of view.’

Why oh why do people insist on using Wikipedia? Blech. It is not a scholarly resource.

Why did the Church take it upon itself to change this teaching?

The Church did not change its teaching. Wikipedia fails to quote the four preceding paragraphs, and all paragraphs including the one they did quote are found under sins against the Fifth Commandment:

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him.
It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life.
We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls.
We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us.
It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life.
It is gravely contrary to the just love of self.
It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations.
Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal.
Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.
Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

Fundamentally, I’m asking why does a church who is known for its permanence take changes like this? It’s not that permanent is it?

The Church has not changed its teaching. Wikipedia is simply wrong. Which is why we should not use wikipedia to research Church teaching.

Link to Catechism:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

 

[Aggie414]

Second, the church NEVER changed it’s teachings. Suicide has always been a sin of grave matter. However as with ALL other sins, for it to be mortal it has to be 1-) premeditated, 2-) full knowledge of the gravity and 3- full consent

This!! Many years ago a co-worker committed suicide – on her son’s 18th birthday. She had been diagnosed with breast cancer – knew something was wrong but because of fear put off going to the doctor. By the time she did go to the doctor, it was Stage 4. She was taking chemo but was very scared. In her “sick” thinking, once her son reached 18 he didn’t need her any more and she could just “go.”

I have to believe that God in situations like these knows the person is very sick – at least mentally (and in this case physically as well) and are not making rational decisions. I believe that God takes pity on those who are in situations as these and does not “hold it against them.”

 

[Bonnie]

I think it is rare to the point of being nonexistant for someone to commit suicide while in his right mind.

Please pray for those you know who have commited suicide.

 

[MaryT777]

I think it is rare to the point of being nonexistant for someone to commit suicide while in his right mind.

Please pray for those you know who have commited suicide.

Joining in prayer for those so hopeless they take their own life; and their families who suffer as well.
Mary.

 

[Corki]

I think it is rare to the point of being nonexistant for someone to commit suicide while in his right mind.

Please pray for those you know who have commited suicide.

Well, there are those Hemlock Society people and that sportscaster who committed suicide because he simply didn’t want to experience growing old.

 

[LisaA]

I think it is rare to the point of being nonexistant for someone to commit suicide while in his right mind.

Please pray for those you know who have commited suicide.

This is what my Spiritual Director told me as well. That one must have that knowledge of the gravity of the sin and do it anyway. This would indicate a rational thought process and as you said is incredibly unlikely in the case of a suicide.

My great niece committed suicide at l6. Teenage angst and trauma and apparently some bullying by schoolmates. Clearly she was not thinking rationally nor had the maturity to make such a decision. It would have been heartbreaking to think this sweet girl had no chance at salvation.

I pray for her and for all who despair.

Lisa

 

[PietroPaolo]

I think it is rare to the point of being nonexistant for someone to commit suicide while in his right mind.

Please pray for those you know who have commited suicide.

Perhaps, with the added qualifications of - in our day and in our society, this may be mostly true, but as an unqualified statement, I couldn’t disagree more. For centuries in Japan (and still, to some extent today) there is a cult of suicide, suicide committed to avoid dishonor that people enter into with a clear mind. The same was true in the pre-Christian West (e.g. Cato falling on his sword after the Battle of Carthage). And in our increasingly post-Christian West, people have decided to kill themselves to avoid the pain of a chronic illness (i.e. the euthanasia movement).

All that being said, there certainly are many, many suicides that are committed by people who have lost their reason, especially through diseases such as depression. But to claim that it is “rare to the point of being nonexistant (sic) for someone to commit suicide while in his right mind” is not true.

 

[chevalier]

The Catholic Church has never believed that mortal sin can exist without full knowledge and consent, nor that suicide would be an exception to that rule. Neither has the Church believed that people can’t be offered an opportunity of salvation in their last moments on earth, even after suicide.

What has changed is the practical willingness or reluctance of the faithful and clergy to be guided by presumptions based on some external factors, as well as some other practical judgements. Also, the theology on Divine Mercy has improved.

 

[tafan]

First, I would NEVER consult wiki for Catholic church teachings. The only source of Catholic teachings is the Catholic church.

Second, the church NEVER changed it’s teachings. Suicide has always been a sin of grave matter. However as with ALL other sins, for it to be mortal it has to be 1-) premeditated, 2-) full knowledge of the gravity and 3- full consent

As for number 2, only God can judge people’s heart and if the person really knew. Now, if someone is at the point they want to kill themselves, they are obviously in a lot of pain and not thinking clearly. Which is why we can not judge them and we leave judgement to God.

The church came to realise that by not burying them with a Catholic funeral, the church was in essence judging them. The church realized it was a sin to judge, quit doing it and started to give them the same funerals.

After all, that is the life of Catholic, to realize your sins and quit doing them

Angie

The Church did not change its teachings, this is true. But the title of the thread is that the Church changed its position, and wiki states that it changed its “point of view”. Both of these statements are undoubtedly true.

One can only look at the page on newadvent.org in the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia and note that the newadvent editors on that page (and I see that on no other page) felt it necessary to include portions of the new Catechism before the 1913 encyclopedia page.

newadvent.org/cathen/14326b.htm

So I think we should not be critical of the OP’s question, as it is very legitimate. The Church did not change its teaching: suicide is still grave matter (ie objectively a mortal sin), buts its practice and point of view have certainly changed.

Why?
I think certainly 2 reasons.

1. First and foremost, society’s practice of suicide has generally changed. In the present day, there are likely 2 primary motives for suicide: despair and serious mental illness. Despair comes into play in the euthanasia situation (people are afraid of terminal illness suffering). However, in the past, suicide was thought to mainly result from many other motives (many have been alluded to in other posts). These motives, and what even constitutes suicide were heavily debated thought the middle ages and the rennacciance period. There were even theologians debating where to draw the line for those who actively sought martyrdom for the faith. The Church eventually settled on a very hard line, because quite simply, since antiquity, suicide was commonly accepted. The second reason: it was never thought that mental illness caused suicide. That is hard to believe, but it is true. Mental illness was not understood to be a disease unless a person was stark raving mad. Those were the only people thought to be mentally ill in our society until VERY recently (say less than 100 years ago).
   And even today, psychologists will tell you that people who are that crazy (the stark-raving-mad lunatic) do not normally commit suicide. It is the people with extreme clinical depression or schizophrenia that commit suicide. But these were not even seen as diseases in the past, so the Church (like all science) did not understand suicide very well.
   Therefore, the Church took a very hard line, because suicide was just not seen as “excusable” and the church truly needed to change society’s view on the matter:not about the metnal illness aspects, but all of the “accepted” (and sinful) reasons to commit suicide .

I would say, the only mistake the Church made, considering the state of scientific knowledge of mental illness through the centuries, was not reacting to the new evidence of mental illness soon enough. You can see that the 1913 encyclopedia addresses it in a negative way. Which were reflected in continued Church practices until the second half of the 20th century. But, certainly after WWI and again after WWII, there was ample evidence that medical profession was right: suicide is generally related to mental illness.

I hope this helps.

BTW, It is only very recently, the last 10-15 years or so, that societal accepted reasons for suicide are once again coming into play.

 

[Bonnie]

Perhaps, with the added qualifications of - in our day and in our society, this may be mostly true, but as an unqualified statement, I couldn’t disagree more. For centuries in Japan (and still, to some extent today) there is a cult of suicide, suicide committed to avoid dishonor that people enter into with a clear mind. The same was true in the pre-Christian West (e.g. Cato falling on his sword after the Battle of Carthage). And in our increasingly post-Christian West, people have decided to kill themselves to avoid the pain of a chronic illness (i.e. the euthanasia movement).

And who are we to judge these people and say they committed suicide while completely rational and understanding it to be a grave sin?

As for your last example, extreme, chronic pain can make people feel suicidal. I know I did. When the pain doesn’t quit and you’re told it will be life long (turned out it wasn’t) suicide does start looking like an option.

 

[Anglewannabe]

The Church did not change its teachings, this is true. But the title of the thread is that the Church changed its position, and wiki states that it changed its “point of view”. Both of these statements are undoubtedly true.

.

In the body the OP clearly asks ‘Why did the church change it’s teachings.’ And in my response I clearly answered why the church changed it’s position when I wrote that the church realize they were wrong. I was NOT being harsh

 

[tafan]

In the body the OP clearly asks ‘Why did the church change it’s teachings.’ And in my response I clearly answered why the church changed it’s position when I wrote that the church realize they were wrong. I was NOT being harsh

And I was not trying to be harsh towards you. I apologize.

 

[PietroPaolo]

And who are we to judge these people and say they committed suicide while completely rational and understanding it to be a grave sin?

As for your last example, extreme, chronic pain can make people feel suicidal. I know I did. When the pain doesn’t quit and you’re told it will be life long (turned out it wasn’t) suicide does start looking like an option.

Who are we to judge that they are not culpable? I was responding to the post which claimed all suicide to be sinless, as no one in their right mind commits suicide, which is a very misinformed understanding.

 

[Bonnie]

Who are we to judge that they are not culpable? I was responding to the post which claimed all suicide to be sinless, as no one in their right mind commits suicide, which is a very misinformed understanding.

Which was my post. I simply cannot believe that people who commit suicide are automatically destined for hell. A young man - a friend of a friend - committed suicide 2 days ago. Last week, a young mother in the same community killed herself in despair over her drug use. Last year, a friend of our family (and my daughter’s first boyfriend) killed himself. Some years ago, the father of a friend committed suicide.

I pray for the souls of all these people. I believe in a merciful God.

 

[Anglewannabe]

And I was not trying to be harsh towards you. I apologize.

Thank You ! Sorry I misunderstood you

 

[manualman]

The church does not change her moral teaching. The church changes her pastoral implementation of those teachings according to fallible judgment calls about how best to get the truth across.

At one time, it was thought that the best way to deter suicide was to harshly condemn it and impose consequences visible to those in the community (as noted in the response). This was arguably appropriate in the days when society as a whole had greater deference to the church and the policy may have deterred some suicides.

Today, it is thought that the family of the person who committed suicide should be comforted by reminders that God is merciful and that only HE is able to judge whether a sin is mortal or not. This is of great comfort to the family and today is probably the better approach since people aren’t willing to defer even matters of transitory sexual pleasure to church teachings, much less issues of life and death. There’s little point in being a harsh disciplinarian if nobody is listening, eh?

In both cases, the church teaching is the same: suicide is the ultimate expression of despair, which is gravely sinful. All that changed was the cultural application of how the church responded to that reality. In short, it’s a disciplinary change, not a doctrinal change.

 

[EasterJoy]

Realize, too, that the decision concerning when to grant an ecclesiastical funeral also has to do with whether or not doing so will cause a public scandal or give the wrong impression with regard to the seriousness of suicide. That is something that will inevitably change through time and from one place to another, even if there are no mistakes in judgement by those with the authority to decide.

Having been tempted to suicidal thoughts myself, it is a very difficult question. The person with those thoughts both needs to realize that they making a choice that is objectively a grave wrong and that a heightened sense of shame or self-loathing is not going to make suicidal thoughts abate! In the end, the goal has to be to make suicide something that those tempted to do it will avoid. That is the most important goal, far above all others, which is why the Church was willing to take a harsh stance. More and more, though, the Church, the medical field, and those in society at large are seeing this as something that has to be geared towards the way people actually think when they are suicidal, rather than aiming it at those who are not tempted to commit suicide. We understand better what causes suicide, and therefore both how we try to prevent it and how we try to help each other cope after someone does it has evolved accordingly.

 

[pnewton]

The Church can change positions. She can not change moral doctrine to where it contradicts what is already known. The Church has never assigned as an infallible statement a single person to Hell by name. There has always been an understanding that we simply cannot know an individuals destination or stand in judgement of any soul. There simply is not a contradiction between these two ideas. Suicide is a mortal sin. One who commits this act still might not go to Hell. Why? Because for a person to be guilty of mortal sin, the objective nature of mortal sin is only one of three criteria. The person must also have full knowledge of the gravity of his actions and must be acting with complete consent:

1857 For a *sin *to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131
1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.
1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.
1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.