Why did the charism of inspiration not extend to priests?

[Eliakim]

Good day,

Can anyone help clarify why despite Apostolic succession being in place, did not the charism of inspiration bestowed by Christ on Apostles not continue down the line after the so-called close of the Apostolic era?

Secondly, it seems somewhat arbitrary to say Scripture Revelation stopped immediately after St. John died. Is there a deeper reason than just that the Church says so? I noticed the CC says no further Revelation is to be expected - a deliberately chosen word to be sure that does not absolutely rule out further Revelation on the order of Scripture.

Pax,
Eliakim

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Christ was the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. He taught us everything that we must know for salvation, in Apostolic Tradition and the Bible. There will be no new prophets, (for example, Mohammeds or Joseph Smiths), necessary.

 

[Eliakim]

Paul, are you not advocating cessationism?

 

[Gorgias]

Secondly, it seems somewhat arbitrary to say Scripture Revelation stopped immediately after St. John died. Is there a deeper reason than just that the Church says so?

The full and complete revelation of Christ was given to the apostles. It’s not that Christ gave the apostles the gift of ‘inspiration’ so much, as that he taught them directly. With the death of the last apostle, the opportunity to hear the Word of God, as Jesus taught it immediately to the apostles, came to a close.

I noticed the CC says no further Revelation is to be expected - a deliberately chosen word to be sure that does not absolutely rule out further Revelation on the order of Scripture.

Eliakim,

I think you’re reading too much into that choice of words. That sentence is a quotation from Dei Verbum 4. The English translation of DV on the Vatican website states:

we now await no further new public revelation before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ (see 1 Tim. 6:14 and Tit. 2:13).

I would argue that the translators see “we await no further new public revelation” and “no new public revelation is to be expected” both as reasonable translations for “nulla iam nova revelatio publica expectanda est.” Especially considering the way that the Catechism states it (i.e., “Revelation is already complete”, “The Son is his Father’s definitive Word; so there will be no further Revelation after him”, “Christian faith cannot accept ‘revelations’ that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment”), I don’t think we can look at the word ‘expect’ and think that the Church is trying to give itself ‘wiggle room’ for possible future developments…

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Cessationism is a protestant term, not Catholic. The Catholic Church has apostolic succession, but we will not be producing any new inspired scripture or revelation. That was the work of Christ during his life on Earth.

 

[Reuben_J]

Good day,

Can anyone help clarify why despite Apostolic succession being in place, did not the charism of inspiration bestowed by Christ on Apostles not continue down the line after the so-called close of the Apostolic era?

Secondly, it seems somewhat arbitrary to say Scripture Revelation stopped immediately after St. John died. Is there a deeper reason than just that the Church says so? I noticed the CC says no further Revelation is to be expected - a deliberately chosen word to be sure that does not absolutely rule out further Revelation on the order of Scripture.

Pax,
Eliakim

It is no ‘new revelations’. Jesus is the final revelation and when ‘it is finished’, that has been explained by himself and the apostles; there will be no new revelation. There will be no addition nor taking away of what are in the book for God will add to their punishment the plague described therein and will take away from them their sahre of the fruit of the tree of life and the Holy city.

 

[TimothyH]

The ideas of the charism of inspiration and revelation seem to be confused here. They are not the same thing.

Jesus Christ is the fullness of God’s revelation. When you look at Jesus you look at God. When you hear Jesus you hear God. God fully revealed himself in the person of Jesus Christ. Our understanding of that revelation will continue to grow but we should expect no further public revelation from God until God comes again in the person of Jesus Christ.

The charism (gift) of inspiration has to do with the breath of the Holy Spirit moving the sacred authors to write what we now know as the Bible.

We have to be careful about associating inspiration only with the Apostles. If the inspiration to write was given only to the Apostles then the entire Old Testament would be ruled out. 2 Peter is generally accepted to be pseudepigraphical, written by another using Peter’s name. The Epistle of James was almost certainly not written by one of the two Apostles named James (James son of Zebedee and James son of Alphaeus). Paul’s authorship of Hebrews is hotly debated and not at all certain.

To that end, and addressing the OP’s question directly, if the Epistle of James was written by James the Just then the charism of inspiration certainly extended not only to at least one priest but to a bishop as James the Just was the first bishop of Jerusalem. James the Just was not an Apostle. Depending on who wrote 2 Peter and Hebrews, they might also have been presbyters. Luke and Mark were not Apostles. Luke was Bishop of Thebes in Greece and so it is clear that the charism of inspiration extended to at least one priest/bishop who was not an Apostle.

Mark may have actually been a Jewish Levitical priest earlier in life, so there you go.

-Tim-

 

[PJM]

=Eliakim;11456312]Good day,

Can anyone help clarify why despite Apostolic succession being in place, did not the charism of inspiration bestowed by Christ on Apostles not continue down the line after the so-called close of the Apostolic era?

Secondly, it seems somewhat arbitrary to say Scripture Revelation stopped immediately after St. John died. Is there a deeper reason than just that the Church says so? I noticed the CC says no further Revelation is to be expected - a deliberately chosen word to be sure that does not absolutely rule out further Revelation on the order of Scripture.

Pax,
Eliakim

The same charism exist toiday:

1st. Cir, 12:1-10 "Now concerning spiritual things, my brethren, I would not have you ignorant. You know that when you were heathens, you went to dumb idols, according as you were led. Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man, speaking by the Spirit of God, saith Anathema to Jesus. And no man can say the Lord Jesus, but by the Holy Ghost. Now there are diversities of graces, but the same Spirit; And there are diversities of ministries, but the same Lord;

And there are diversities of operations, but the same God, who worketh all in all. And the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man unto profit. To one indeed, by the Spirit, is given the word of wisdom: and to another, the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit; To another, faith in the same spirit; to another, the grace of healing in one Spirit; To another, the working of miracles; to another, prophecy; to another, the discerning of spirits; to another, diverse kinds of tongues; to another, interpretation of speeches.

John was the Last surviving Apostle of Christ:thumbsup:

This is necessary in order that Christ be rightly CREDITED with what He taught.
READ Mt. 28:16-20 for evidence of this.

God Bless you,
Patrick

And WELCOME to the FORUM

 

[Eliakim]

Georgias, thank you for the original Latin and DV translation. Always helps to go to the source.

Appreciate all the replies, but as one poster said, Revelation can’t just be for Apostles. Jude wasn’t an Apostle. So it seems arbitrary does it not that this special gift of inspiration would be given to Apostles and then one immediate successor only?

Is the gift of inspiration based on Christ’s granting the Apostles the power to bind and loose?

If so, I suppose we are back to the original question, why isn’t this transferred down the line as are other gifts priests have that originated with Christ’s bestowment.

 

[Eliakim]

One poster said:

Cessationism is a protestant term, not Catholic. The Catholic Church has apostolic succession, but we will not be producing any new inspired scripture or revelation. That was the work of Christ during his life on Earth.

But my question is when does it stop and why?

It can’t be simply because John was the last Apostle because Mark and Jude were not Apostles and yet they still got the charism. Or did they get the special charism because John was still alive and the Spirit decided to inspire people until John died?

Was the charism to write Scripture/receive Revelation given by Christ when He gave the Apostles the bind and loose power? If so why didn’t it transfer on like everything else with apostolic succession?

Another poster said the charism did not stop and cited 1 Cir 12:1-10.

**Are we to believe the Spirit decided to simply stop the Revelations the minute John died? **

 

[PJM]

=Eliakim;11479646]One poster said:

But my question is when does it stop and why?

It can’t be simply because John was the last Apostle because Mark and Jude were not Apostles and yet they still got the charism. Or did they get the special charism because John was still alive and the Spirit decided to inspire people until John died?

Was the charism to write Scripture/receive Revelation given by Christ when He gave the Apostles the bind and loose power? If so why didn’t it transfer on like everything else with apostolic succession?

Another poster said the charism did not stop and cited 1 Cir 12:1-10.

**Are we to believe the Spirit decided to simply stop the Revelations the minute John died? **

The NEW Prophesies ended with John, the last of the Apostles; who fulfilled and completed the new mandate to cf. TEACH ALL that i TAUGHT YOU; Mt 28:18-20

Revelations as to increased understanding are possible.

And yes; the powers of “binding and loosening” were Power and authority of Governance.

But this is supplemented by Mk. 16:14-15; & Mt. 28:18-20, which in turn are supported by
John 7:18 and John 20:21:thumbsup:

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Christ was the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. He taught us everything that we must know for salvation, in Apostolic Tradition and the Bible. There will be no new prophets, (for example, Mohammeds or Joseph Smiths), necessary.

Hold on a second, because in Ch. 11 of the Apocalypse talks about** the two witnesses, two prophets that have not come yet**!!! And the Apocalypse is the Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to Him. So it is true and we are awaiting for these two prophets.

In the love of His Revelation,
Gloria

.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Good day,

Can anyone help clarify why despite Apostolic succession being in place, did not the charisma of inspiration bestowed by Christ on Apostles not continue down the line after the so-called close of the Apostolic era?

Secondly, it seems somewhat arbitrary to say Scripture Revelation stopped immediately after St. John died. Is there a deeper reason than just that the Church says so? I noticed the CC says no further Revelation is to be expected - a deliberately chosen word to be sure that does not absolutely rule out further Revelation on the order of Scripture.

Pax,
Eliakim

You know that the Church says no more ‘public revelation’ but there are private revelations, the only thing is that they have to be tested by the Church.

Jesus have given us what He wanted us to know, what it was necessary for our salvation. Only one thing John was told not to write in the Revelation: what the seven thunders spoke.

The two witnesses still have to come, because with their coming the Revelation of Jesus Christ will be put into time. We will understand where we are and the why? of the things happening around us.

As for the priests having the ‘charisma of inspiration’, what is exactly what you mean? I hope that you mean the giving of the Holy Spirit, because he is the one who inspires His Church.

Hope this helps,
Gloria

.

 

[Usagi]

Inspiration was a gift bestowed on specific people, some apostles and many not. It was not part of the “package” that comes with being a priest or bishop.

Answering “why” is hard, as always when a question asks us to read the Mind of God, but I would presume that everything that needed to be revealed had been.

I don’t think it’s so much that there was a specific cutoff (such as John’s death) after which God would not have revealed more even if He had wanted to. Rather, all of public revelation was complete by a certain time, which happened to coincide roughly with the end of the first century and John’s death. (And that may well have been providence rather than coincidence, since the specific office of “apostle” is also one that did not persist after the first generation.)

Once God has revealed all that He intends to, why would the gift persist? The Holy Spirit does still guide us to express the eternal truths in different words and to tease out deeper meanings over time, but we’ve already got the whole Deposit of Faith.

Usagi