Why did the Inquisition turn so nasty? Did it go to far? (Catholics only please)

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freesoulhope

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When people ask me what faith i am, i hesitate to say Catholic. You could say im a coward. But there is reason behind it. I cant find a reasonable reason to feel proud of The catholic churches track record. Even though im sure that the church has been responsible for alot of wonderfull things ( which keep me Catholic), i Still feel that little demon at the back of my mind saying…

’ have you forgot about the inquisition?’

I want to feel proud of my faith. I have often said to people who qeustion my faith, that i am Catholic because of the deposit of faith that has been entrusted to the Catholic church, not because of whats happened in the past. But honestly, i haven’t any ammo left in my gun, and im finding it harder to find some more. It doesn’t seem like people are hating my faith for some unjust reason( i wouldnt mind if that were the case). They seem to find justifiable reasons for soing so. It hurts.

What really happened? why did the Church go so far down hill. And why do does it get its self involved in worldly politics?

Peace be with you.
 
There are reliable books on the Inquisitions that you ought to read, but first of all, you need to know that the Church never killed anyone. In fact, people begged to be tried by a Church tribunal instead of a state tribunal because the Church assumed their innocence while the state did not! That’s where the “innocent until proven guilty” maxim we’re all so proud of in this country came from. Also, search the library on this very website for information about the Inquisitions and what they were really all about. 😉
 
I’m a Catholic not for the people, but for the gifts. God deemed to give us His gifts through the broadest cross section of people: it is humanity at its worst and best.

If you really want to judge the merits of Catholicism then look at the saints.
 
Many scholars now believe that the Inquisition was not as bad as is commonly held. The historian Henry Kamen wrote a good book called *The Spanish Inquisition: A Historical Revision. *
In this book he shows that the number of deaths inflicted by the Spanish Inquisition were far fewer and chronologically more spanned out than many popularly believe. I remember that in one section he even demonstrates that in many cases the secular courts were far harsher, so much so that criminals, if they had the choice, would opt for the ecclesial courts instead of the secular ones, because they thought they’d receive lighter penalties.
 
Goblin_Taters said:
Many scholars now believe that the Inquisition was not as bad as is commonly held. The historian Henry Kamen wrote a good book called The Spanish Inquisition: A Historical Revision.

In this book he shows that the number of deaths inflicted by the Spanish Inquisition were far fewer and chronologically more spanned out than many popularly believe. I remember that in one section he even demonstrates that in many cases the secular courts were far harsher, so much so that criminals, if they had the choice, would opt for the ecclesial courts instead of the secular ones, because they thought they’d receive lighter penalties.
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I have not read Kamen’s book but I have read Inquisition by Edward Peters. It essentially says the same thing. In addition, it goes in to how the inquisition became “THE INQUISITION”. Very interesting.
 
To add to what others have said, the Inquisition got its current reputation from Protestant propagandists who used a vastly exaggerated story of the Inquisition to attack the Catholic Church. When you hear about millions dying you are listening to Protestant propaganda from a few centuries ago.
 
“Wherefore we, as is our duty, desirous to remove all hindrances and obstacles whatsoever by which the work of the inquisitors may be impeded, as also to apply potent remedies to prevent the disease of heresy and other turpitudes diffusing their poison to the destruction of other innocent souls, as our position demands and marked by the greatest zeal for the Faith… we decree and enjoin that the aforesaid inquisitors be empowered to proceed to the correction, imprisonment, and punishment of any persons for the said abominations and enormities, without let or hindrance, in every way as if the provinces, townships, dioceses, districts, territories, yea, even the persons and their crimes in this kind were named and specifically designated in our letters.” excerpt of papal bull Summis desiderantes affectibus, by Pope Innocent VIII, 1484.

“The importance of Summis desiderantes affectibus (a papal bull by Innocent VIII, 1484) has always been understood: included as a prefatory justification in the Malleus Maleficarum, it established once and for all that the Inquisition against witches had full papal approval and thereby opened the door for the bloodbaths of the following century.” Jeffrey Burton Russell, Witchcraft in the Middle Ages.

“Were it not for the Inquisition, the Catholic tribunal charged with exposing and punishing religious unorthodoxy, not one person would have died for witchcraft. All later trials, secular and ecclesiastical, Protestant and Catholic, stem from early inquisitorial patterns, culminating in the Bull of 1484 of Pope Innocent VIII.” Rossell Hope Robbins, The Encyclopedia of Witchcraft and Demonology.
 
The reformation (although my priest often quips that calling it the reformation should evoke the same feelings in Catholics as the term “civil war” does to residents of the old confederacy 😉 ) was tied up with a lot of power politics and dynastic ambitions. There was a notion at the time that a people should belong to whatever sect their ruler belonged to thus following your conscious could be the equivalent of treason in the eyes of the civil authorities.

It could be a dirty messy business all around

Since the protestants became politically ascendant in the English speaking world it is not surprising that on an English web forum that the word “inquisition” has dark overtones.

Don’t let it bother you.
You have nothing to be ashamed of.
 
I have never understood how the idea of the Inquisition was so repulsive to some - even Catholics. I for one, as a former history major and current philosopher/theologian, think the Inquisition was a good thing. In fact I think that one of the modern mistakes that was made in the Curial reform was the effective closing of the Holy Office. We could profit much from the work of the Holy Office today.
 
There was just a program on EWTN recently on the MYTH of the inquisition. As was stated above, people would much rather come to a church tribunal than a state one. Most of what is written and thrown in the face of Catholics is MYTH. Part of the reason wa political. Catholic Spain was in power and the protestants in the other countries wanted to bring her down and put out propaganda.

It is true that there were several thousand who died over several hundred years–2 or 3 thousand. There are meticulous records that are being looked at now. But many tens of thousands died at the hands of the protestants! Ever read of the martyrs of the English revolt? They did a thing of butchery especially to priests called being hung, drawn, and quartered.
Terrible torture. They beheaded many others. Even some women were murdered. The Catholics were fined and had their civil rights taken.

In Europe at this time there was fear of witches and many of alleged witches were burned at the stake. Not by the Catholic Church there.​

Never be ashamed to be a Catholic! Always, since the beginning, the true Church has been persecuted. That will not stop. YOu can expect opposition. But only through this sacramental life instituted by Christ can a soul come to such union with Him on earth. And that is really what counts.

Yes, the Church is full of sinners. Yes, some are even in the heirarchy. But Our Lord came for sinners; He came for me.

I could never ever leave Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, even–I hope–at the cost of my own life. My Love is there in the Sacred consecrated Host. I live for Him and not for huan respect.
Peace!

Ave Maria!
 
Goblin_Taters said:
Many scholars now believe that the Inquisition was not as bad as is commonly held. The historian Henry Kamen wrote a good book called *The Spanish Inquisition: A Historical Revision. *
In this book he shows that the number of deaths inflicted by the Spanish Inquisition were far fewer and chronologically more spanned out than many popularly believe. I remember that in one section he even demonstrates that in many cases the secular courts were far harsher, so much so that criminals, if they had the choice, would opt for the ecclesial courts instead of the secular ones, because they thought they’d receive lighter penalties.
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Also keep in mind that at the time everybody, civil as well as ecclesiastical courts, used torture. It was a standard technique, just as nowadays detectives use of psychology to trick suspects into confessing is.

Remember as well that even paranoids have enemies. There were many Jews who truly converted to Catholicism but also many who carried on their own faith while pretending to be Catholics, some of them became priests and even bishops. These hidden Jews scared the hell out of the Spanish power structure, civil and ecclesiastical.

I am not making light of the suffering of the Inquisition’s victims. By today’s standards those hidden Jews were heroically clinging to their faith under the direst persecution. But at the time they represented a terrible threat to both Church and State. Imagine the Red Scare of the 50s cubed.

Some Jews remained hidden for centuries. Descendants of Spanish Jews living in Holland “came out” in the 1920s – just in time to be snagged by Hitler a couple decades later.
 
As has been said above, tales of the “Inquisition” were largely spread by protestant propagandists to build up hate and fear of Catholicism. The Black Legend is used today by other enemies of Catholicism

The truth is that Cromwell killed more Catholics in one week in Ireland, than the all the Inquisitions ever did.

The most infamous inquisition, the Spanish, was in fact run by the Spanish Government, not the Cghurch and the Pope condemned its excesses in its worst period under King Ferdinand.

A good overview of the Inquisition is at wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition
 
I would also recommend reading “Triumph: The Power and Glory of the Catholic Church.” This book, but H.W. Crocker II, really destroys many of the myths of Church histroy. Mr. Crocker also just released “Don’t Tread on Me” about U.S. military engagements, which I recommend also. P.S. Let us know what you found and if this helps.
 
I think , in some countries in the world today the inquisition exist also , and even in the form of justice , which can be called as a worst than the Middle Ages inquisition.
There are not a few countries today where the death penalty is not abolished, and unfortunately in the Christian countries too.
Inquisition in the Middle Ages was based on the believe that heresy is a crime against the soul , and the heresy is a threat against the society.
Don’t we believe today , that it is true ?
But there is no persecution of the heretics , because we have grown in the understanding of crime and punishment.
Though in some countries today, there are the inquisitions , against religious, political minorities.
In our developed and democratic countries there are the inquisitions against the unborn kids, in some countries the millions of unborn are dying per year.

Though , I wouldn’t compare it with the Middle Ages inquisition.
The Middle Ages inquisition was the form of justice , which has to be understood in the context of that time.
Of course the inquisition can not be defended absolutely , but it can not be compared with what communists did or what the nazi did.
 
The first question you must ask whenever anybody brings up the Inquisition is “What do you think happened?” They will almost certainly reply with something completely divorced from the historic reality (and composed mostly of Protestant propaganda from the 16th-18th centuries which has entered the “conventional wisdom” of the English-speaking world).

–Ah, I see this is an old thread that has been resurrected…
 
didymus said:
Also keep in mind that at the time everybody, civil as well as ecclesiastical courts, used torture. It was a standard technique, just as nowadays detectives use of psychology to trick suspects into confessing is.

Remember as well that even paranoids have enemies. There were many Jews who truly converted to Catholicism but also many who carried on their own faith while pretending to be Catholics, some of them became priests and even bishops. These hidden Jews scared the hell out of the Spanish power structure, civil and ecclesiastical.

I am not making light of the suffering of the Inquisition’s victims. By today’s standards those hidden Jews were heroically clinging to their faith under the direst persecution. But at the time they represented a terrible threat to both Church and State. Imagine the Red Scare of the 50s cubed.

Some Jews remained hidden for centuries. Descendants of Spanish Jews living in Holland “came out” in the 1920s – just in time to be snagged by Hitler a couple decades later.
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This is a very good point to note. The common belief of the time was that one couldn’t be sure of the truth of one’s confession UNLESS it was under torture.

Secular authorities were much harsher and prone to a lynch mob, burn 'em at the stake mentality. The Inquisition at least allowed for the facts to be ascertained and for the worst abuses of the mob to be avoided. The Inquisitors typically gave the accused a chance to renounce whatever heresies or blasphemies they were accused of. In this, they were far milder than the princes, who tended to resort to brutal torture and execution styles to discourage the spread of such practices.

It should be noted that the Protestants were no slouches when it came to burning at the stake, mutilation, etc either, as Queen Elizabeth’s reign amply demonstrated—she was hardly less bloody than her sister.

We should also keep in mind that the 16th and 17th centuries were far more brutal in many ways than the moderns are comfortable with, but the history of the 20th and 21st centuries has shown that we are perfectly capable of exceeding our ancestors’ bloodlust.

After all, they at least believed themselves to be saving souls for God. What’s our excuse?
 
I find it amusing that someone popped in and accused the Catholic Church of being to blame for medieval witch hunts. Witch hunts were relatively rare in catholic countries. They were more peculiarly protestant in nature!

When people try to use the Inquisition as a weapon, I point out that they are mixing eras. One cannot judge the behavior of the people of the church of 800 years ago with the hindsight of 21st century morality. While Natural Law never changes, human maturity sure does! I think we do well to remember that Jesus called us his flock and he our Shepherd. He explicitly passed that mantle onto the apostles and their successors. What does a shepeherd do when the flock wanders off course? He is right there with them, nudging them back towards the true path. This does not excuse bad behavior on the part of our Shepherds, but it illustrates that in EVERY age, the Church has acted in such a way that pushes the culture back towards the narrow path. Never in a PERFECT and impeccable manner, but always BETTER than the culture of the moment. That’s how shepherding works.
 
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