Why did the Jews abstain from Table fellowship with Gentiles

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Erick_Ybarra

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I am seeking to understand the Pauline doctrine of justification as a contextual polemic in the disputes between the Judaizers and the Jews who allowed fellowship with Gentile converts.

My question is, why exactly did Jews have to abstain from Gentiles? Was it because God simply commanded them not to somewhere in Scripture? Or is it that the uncleanness of the gentiles would infect the jews? Or is it something else?
 
Yes, the food laws.

However, when Peter comes to Cornelius in Acts 11, he says “And he said to them, ‘You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me’” (Acts 11:26-28).

It seems as though the “uncleanness” of the gentiles is the ground reason for why the Jews sought to abstain from them, right? Or is there a specific prohibition of having fellowship with non-Jews in the OT? And since the “uncleanness” of these Gentiles is the reason given for why Jews abstain from the gentiles, did they believe they would be infected with the same “uncleanness” or did they just not want any association (not fearing any kind of infection)
 
Erick_Ybarra said:
I am seeking to understand the Pauline doctrine of justification as a contextual polemic in the disputes between the Judaizers and the Jews who allowed fellowship with Gentile converts.

My question is, why exactly did Jews have to abstain from Gentiles? Was it because God simply commanded them not to somewhere in Scripture? Or is it that the uncleanness of the gentiles would infect the jews? Or is it something else?
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The Israelites were morally weak and would easily succumb to the influences of the pagan Gentiles. Today we have the Sacraments to provide us Grace to resist temptation. Back they they had no such thing so they had to literally be an island from everyone else.
 
Erick_Ybarra said:
Yes, the food laws.

However, when Peter comes to Cornelius in Acts 11, he says “And he said to them, ‘You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me’” (Acts 11:26-28).

It seems as though the “uncleanness” of the gentiles is the ground reason for why the Jews sought to abstain from them, right? Or is there a specific prohibition of having fellowship with non-Jews in the OT? And since the “uncleanness” of these Gentiles is the reason given for why Jews abstain from the gentiles, did they believe they would be infected with the same “uncleanness” or did they just not want any association (not fearing any kind of infection)
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There was a “ritual purity” as I recall - but not sure if such is referenced here. Recall John 18: 28.

In the this case --the Ignatius Bible (Ignatius Publishers) notes that Palestinian Jews would yes go far in avoiding Gentiles socially – in terms of the persons and the food – and this was in regards to “legal defilement” (pg 225). In terms of food per se that refers back to the Torah in particular.
 
The gentiles who were converted, believed, repented, baptized, and who received the Holy Spirit were not fully “saved” according to these Judaizers.

In other words, these Gentile converts had already turned from their sin to serve Christ and still are considered as not “fully saved” because they have not submitted to circumcision and the law of Moses.

Therefore, the Judaizers were not trying to get these gentiles to keep the 10 commandemnts, but rather they were trying to put the gentiles into the jewish culture.
 
They held that they needed to basically observe the practices of the Jews as Christians.
 
Yes, and Paul was responding to them with the truth that through “faith” gentiles actually become truly “circumcised” before God, that being of the heart, having our old Adamic lives crucified and raised to be alive with Christ by the Spirit who raised our Lord Jesus from the dead.

I am beginning to see a bit more to “justification” and “righteousness through faith” then I see previously in my protestant box.

I notice that Paul parallels being “justified” and receiving the “holy Spirit” in Galatians, and that to be “justified” is to be made “alive” (Galatians 3:21) and to become a “new creation” (Gal 6:16).

In other words, the crucifixion of Christ’s flesh (as it is like ours) is the gateway through which we can experience the transfer from the old creation (corruption and sin) to the newly created human race in Christ (our 2nd Adam) and that “faith” is the characteristic of living this new life.

Therefore, “faith” is not that fine little moment that you accept Jesus in your heart, rather it is the all encompassing virtue of the Christian which appropriates all of Christ for all of life.
 
Bookcat said:
There was a “ritual purity” as I recall - but not sure if such is referenced here. Recall John 18: 28.

In the this case --the Ignatius Bible (Ignatius Publishers) notes that Palestinian Jews would yes go far in avoiding Gentiles socially – in terms of the persons and the food – and this was in regards to “legal defilement” (pg 225). In terms of food per se that refers back to the Torah in particular.
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Right. Remember that the old testament had a lot of rules, not just about what you could eat, but what you could touch or be in contact with, what you could sit on, and so forth. For example, one of the rules said you couldn’t sit on something a menstruating woman sat on, until it had been purified. If you went into a Gentile house, how would you know if the proper rules had been followed? Or same thing with the disease and uncleanness laws - a Gentile might have a spot of eczema that made him unclean, and anyone who touched him would also become unclean.
 
In step with the dietary laws were also the instruction to only associate with other Jews. Any mingling with gentiles were proscribed by the ancient Temple Jews…it was an instruction from God to Moses that the devout took seriously.
 
The Israelites were a people set apart because the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity was to take place in that race.

Their rules helped set them apart.

They were not to intermarry with the pagans, because then they would start to be like them.( not believing in one God, sacrificing their babies, temple prostitution, ). Over the years many disobeyed and became corrupted. Thankfully a remnant always listened to the prophets and stayed faithful. (for example, Elijah at Mt. Carmel killing the prophets of Baal.)

Our Lord Jesus Christ came for all people, and it was the Jewish race, God’s chosen people, that He came from. He was meant for all people from the beginning. Many Jewish people converted at Pentecost, many did not.
 
Erick_Ybarra said:
Yes, and Paul was responding to them with the truth that through “faith” gentiles actually become truly “circumcised” before God, that being of the heart, having our old Adamic lives crucified and raised to be alive with Christ by the Spirit who raised our Lord Jesus from the dead.

I am beginning to see a bit more to “justification” and “righteousness through faith” then I see previously in my protestant box.

I notice that Paul parallels being “justified” and receiving the “holy Spirit” in Galatians, and that to be “justified” is to be made “alive” (Galatians 3:21) and to become a “new creation” (Gal 6:16).

…

Therefore, “faith” is not that fine little moment that you accept Jesus in your heart, rather it is the all encompassing virtue of the Christian which appropriates all of Christ for all of life.
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One will find that Paul discusses the reality of entering into being “in Christ” and life as a Christian living in grace – in various ways.

Describing things from various perspectives and using various ways of discussing such (metaphors etc) – to address various audiences and circumstances etc etc etc.
 
Erick_Ybarra said:
I am seeking to understand the Pauline doctrine of justification as a contextual polemic in the disputes between the Judaizers and the Jews who allowed fellowship with Gentile converts.

My question is, why exactly did Jews have to abstain from Gentiles? Was it because God simply commanded them not to somewhere in Scripture? Or is it that the uncleanness of the gentiles would infect the jews? Or is it something else?
Click to expand...
The dietary laws were a part of it also all the kosher laws, an observant jew cannot eat or drink in cups or with utensils that are not “pure” they could not even stay close to the wife that had the period for heaven sake.
Worth mentioning that many of these laws were put in the book after Moses time and Jesus spoke against them.
 
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