Why did the Pope allow this?

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For many years the Church allowed monarchs to chose people from the nobility to be named bishops.In particular France,Hungary,Austria.Some weren’t even priests.They were chosen often to work with the monarch in behalf of Church matters.How could the pope allow this to go on?Sometimes they had to go through some training in Catholicm before they could accept the post but it seems so unorthodox.The clergy became wealthy people who overtaxed the peasants and made their lives terrible.Many even starved to death while the bishops lived in mansions.I can’t understand this.
 
For many years the Church allowed monarchs to chose people from the nobility to be named bishops.In particular France,Hungary,Austria.Some weren’t even priests.They were chosen often to work with the monarch in behalf of Church matters.How could the pope allow this to go on?Sometimes they had to go through some training in Catholicm before they could accept the post but it seems so unorthodox.The clergy became wealthy people who overtaxed the peasants and made their lives terrible.Many even starved to death while the bishops lived in mansions.I can’t understand this.
The pope isn’t obligated to refuse the nominations of Christian kings.

I believe your claims are exaggerated. Monarchs lacked the sweeping powers of taxation that are avaliable to modern nation-states, and even then, they weren’t given to the clergy. The reasons for starvation are seldom as simple as overtaxation. The reason for this is that anyone with the power to tax takes care not to kill the resource.
 
The clergy became wealthy people who overtaxed the peasants and made their lives terrible.Many even starved to death while the bishops lived in mansions.I can’t understand this.
Hi Valentino, my personal opinion… there have been good and bad bishops in the past. Just as there are good and bad laity. Jesus called sinners to the church, not saints. The church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints. cheers, dave
 
Try to go back the time. There is evidence that a trusted communication between Rome and far away counties took over a year. It was impossible to name, consecrate and invest (approve and fortify by jurisdiction) the local bishops.

In the early Church the bishops were elected (e.g. St Ambrosius in Milan). Later as a natural process the King who established and defended the Christianity made the nomination, the local bishops consecrated the nominated person, and the pope gave only the final answer, the investiture (this was the essence of the investiture controversy between St Gregory VII and Henry IV concluding in Canossa)

The Apostolic King title for the Austrian Emperor-Hungarian King allegedly donated by Silvester II to St Stephen first King of Hungarians is clear falsification written sometimes in the XVII century, but de facto the nomination was by the King (his advisors) but the pope approved it and the regular 3 bishops made the ordinations.
 
Why is a wonder to people that in the past and even in the present their is corruption and sin in the church? Didn’t Jesus choose twelve, and yet one was a devil? If you are looking for perfection in people, you will never find it. Perfection lies in the sacraments, because they are the works of God; look there instead.
 
This is a very old controversy. The practice of secular leaders choosing Church leaders was fought for centuries by the Popes. It only sounds shocking to us today because the Popes won (also coloring our perception are more recent versions of separation of Church and State).

Check out the wikipedia article about it:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investiture_Controversy

Edit: the article gives the controversy a rather narrow definition, but the same sort of tension went on for a much longer period. Certain Catholic monarchs could still veto the results of a Papal conclave and thus block someone from becoming Pope until St. Pius X abolished their veto power in the early 20th century.
 
For many years the Church allowed monarchs to chose people from the nobility to be named bishops.In particular France,Hungary,Austria.Some weren’t even priests.They were chosen often to work with the monarch in behalf of Church matters.How could the pope allow this to go on?Sometimes they had to go through some training in Catholicm before they could accept the post but it seems so unorthodox.The clergy became wealthy people who overtaxed the peasants and made their lives terrible.Many even starved to death while the bishops lived in mansions.I can’t understand this.
I dont know anything about this but people today have the tendency to look to the past as if the past was filled with evil people. that is not true. this is an evil that is going on in our time. trying to compare how good and righteous we are today is a mortal sin against God and should be reject by our spirit. One must also consider the fact that most people were lead by the Church which today they rebel against the Church. I think it was better than, then today.

There was a time in which look to the Church with love and gave all they have to the Church for the Glory of God, today people are more concerned with their houses being built better than the House of God.

Make no mistake, satan is succeeding in turning many Catholics against the Church. this is an evil that must be purged from our hearts.
 
For many years the Church allowed monarchs to chose people from the nobility to be named bishops.In particular .
please don’t make claims about church and world history without providing a link to an authoratative source. as a matter of fact at one period monarchs could nominate-not appoint-candidates for bishop and submit them to the pope for approval which was never automatic. Some of the most notorious conflicts between kings and popes have centered on the pope’s refusal to accept such nominees. I suggest a good general course first in European history, then in Church history, to help you put such claims in the perspective of history.
 
please don’t make claims about church and world history without providing a link to an authoratative source. as a matter of fact at one period monarchs could nominate-not appoint-candidates for bishop and submit them to the pope for approval which was never automatic. Some of the most notorious conflicts between kings and popes have centered on the pope’s refusal to accept such nominees.
The Catholic Encyclopedia explains:
In the West, the kings intervened in these elections, notably in Spain and Gaul, and sometimes assumed the right of direct nomination. This interference of princes and emperors lasted until the quarrel about Investitures, which was especially violent in Germany, where from the ninth to the eleventh centuries abbots and bishops had become real temporal princes. . . . The bishops of the Middle Ages acquired much temporal power, but this was accompanied by a corresponding diminution of their spiritual authority.
. . .
[The Pope] also claimed the right to nominate the bishops, but in the German Concordat of 1448 he granted the chapters the right to elect them, while in that of 1516 he permitted the King of France to nominate the bishops of that nation.
If memory serves, for many bishoprics the present Concordat between the Holy See and France allows the President of France either to select a small group of candidates from with the Vatican chooses someone to be bishop, or to select the person to become bishop from a small group proposed by the Vatican (I forget which).
 
There was a time in which look to the Church with love and gave all they have to the Church for the Glory of God, today people are more concerned with their houses being built better than the House of God.
.
You don’t really believe that, do you? If the people in centuries past had access to the resources that we have today, they would look just like we do.

It is a fantasy to think that people from ages ago were more noble, upright and moral than today. The kings of Christian Europe were, for the most part, men that you wouldn’t let into your own home.
 
You don’t really believe that, do you? If the people in centuries past had access to the resources that we have today, they would look just like we do.

It is a fantasy to think that people from ages ago were more noble, upright and moral than today. The kings of Christian Europe were, for the most part, men that you wouldn’t let into your own home.
With respect, it is an equal fantasy to think people from ages ago were LESS noble, upright and moral than today, which seems to be your perception.
 
With respect, it is an equal fantasy to think people from ages ago were LESS noble, upright and moral than today, which seems to be your perception.
Actually, I think that people in the past were no better, and probably just a little worse than people are today.
 
Actually, I think that people in the past were no better, and probably just a little worse than people are today.
Really? I think that they were better in some ways and worse in others, but overall I think while we might be physically healthier and have more material goods and status, they might have been (on the whole, of course) healthier spiritually and have more humility.
 
Because that WAS the pattern in Europe for about 500 years. It remained the pattern in most of Protestant Europe, just as it had been in Catholic Europe.

The Church leaders are not, and never have been, infallible in all things. Popes are sinners, just as we are. Most of the Popes of that era came from the upper classes themselves, and it was from those upper classes that virtually ALL leaders, religious or lay, came from.

Keep in mind that Clerics were CLERKS, meaning that they could read and write. Many lay nobles were actually trained by the church, and unlike what you claim they did NOT have to be educated about the church. The church operated every University in Europe in those days, and that is where all lawyers and other leaders got their education. Even the Kings and Princes were often trained by the clergy.

The common folk had essentially no opportunity for education (with very few exceptions). So, if you were going to have a Bishop, where would you look for one? Among the country friars, who could barely read the Latin for the Mass, or among the educated and literate people?

It is so easy to look back and condemn, without actually understanding how society worked in those eras. There was no such thing as “free education”, the vast majority of people were ignorant and could neither read at all nor do any match above counting. And taxes rarely affected the poor, because essentially they owned nothing that could be taxed. Instead, it was the landowners (who were the rich) that actually got taxed.

Don’t believe movies like “Robin Hood”. The people that “Robin Hood” is based on didn’t give a darn about the peasants, they were fighting for the rights of the minor nobles.

The “Magna Carta”, that great document of democracy, had absolutely nothing to do with the common people at all. In fact, they were not mentioned in it. Every right mentioned in that document concerned only the Nobles, and limited the ways in which the King could tax them, could demand service from them, etc.

They didn’t care at all about the common people. They essentially had one right, the right to die. Other than that, the person who owned the land they lived on, essentially owned them and everything that they had.

The rights of the common man VERY slowly developed, and it was not until around the 16th century that they even began to have rights at all. Keep in mind that in England as late as the 1840’s, a person could be sentenced to permanent exile, or even death, for stealing a loaf of bread.

It is so easy to assume that everyone had rights all along. They didn’t, and the governments (including the government of the church) reflected to society that it existed in.
 
Thanks to everyone who responded.especially Aelred Minor for those links.they were most informative.
 
The rights of the common man VERY slowly developed, and it was not until around the 16th century that they even began to have rights at all. Keep in mind that in England as late as the 1840’s, a person could be sentenced to permanent exile, or even death, for stealing a loaf of bread.
And the draconian laws of England were very egalitarian: “It is equally illegal for a peasant as well as nobleman to sleep under the king’s bridges.”
 
For many years the Church allowed monarchs to chose people from the nobility to be named bishops.In particular France,Hungary,Austria.Some weren’t even priests.They were chosen often to work with the monarch in behalf of Church matters.How could the pope allow this to go on?Sometimes they had to go through some training in Catholicm before they could accept the post but it seems so unorthodox.The clergy became wealthy people who overtaxed the peasants and made their lives terrible.Many even starved to death while the bishops lived in mansions.I can’t understand this.
Do you know anything about both Church and secular history or just making assumptions about ‘how things were?’ What period in history are you inquiring about?

People are always going to be people. Their nature doesn’t change.
 
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