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schaick
Guest
Can anyone explain to me what he was thinking? It was a very misleading gesture about like Obama bowing to the Saudi king!!
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cthulhubryan
Guest
This reminds me of a story I heard many years ago. It seems that two Poles were walking down a forest trail when they spotted something odd in the middle of the trail.
In order to determine what it is they stare at it, feel it, smell it, and finally kiss it to get a taste of it.
As they go through the woods to avoid it further the older one says to the younger:
“Looks like dog poop, feels like dog poop, smells like dog poop, tastes like dog poop. MUST be dog poop. Glad we didn’t step in it.”
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brigantine
Guest
I don’t know what he was thinking but in my opinion I believe it was to be politically correct. I really love this Pope so this hurt me deeply!
Its done in the Eastern Orthodox Church also. Many Hierarchs never miss a beat to side with the muslims. The muslims return the favor by murdering Christians in every country in the middle east.
I’m afraid until Christendom realizes this real threat to its very existence more PC nonsense will be done.
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eOxy
Guest
It has never been done either by Eastern Orthodox or Oriental Orthodox bishops.
You are a liar.
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brigantine
Guest
I was referring to political correctness towards islam. Read all of what I wrote and not just one sentence out of context with the very next sentence.
Thank you for calling me a lair!
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eOxy
Guest
You should then said it with that reference and should not have phrased it as you did.
I’ve read it exactly in context with the text you quoted and the title of the thread. If you meant something else, you should have phrased it better.
You are welcome.Thank you for calling me a lair!
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brigantine
Guest
I used the sentences after the first to explain the first. My first paragraph was addressing the quote above it. In anycase, I’m sorry I confused you! I will try and better explain my meaning so people like you can understand what I’m getting at.
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eOxy
Guest
If we agree that no Orthodox bishop has ever kissed Quran, then accept my apologies for calling you a liar.
It is true notwithstanding the fact that many Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox live as a minority under Muslim rule, because it is prohibited for non-Muslims by Muslim Law to touch the Quran.
That’s because the Quran is the holly book for Muslims, and they won’t let a non-believer (an infidel, “an impure”) to defile it by touching it.
The Pope basically offended Muslims by kissing Quran. If we don’t denigrate the thread we will see what RCs think about it.
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brigantine
Guest
I have never seen or herd of an Orthodox Bishop kissing a Koran.
I don’t know how all RCs feel but I can tell you my RC Family and Friends were upset and hurt over it. I ould also add a little confused.
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Joe_5859
Guest
I think we should be very hesitant about accusing JPII of succumbing to the pressures of political correctness. It seems unlikely for someone who regularly spoke out against the cultural norms (in areas such as abortion, for example) to be so concerned about such a thing in this case.
Personally, I don’t read too much into the incident (which people are still talking about now, more than 10 years after it happened!). Of course, none of us can really know exactly what he was thinking, but for me it seems likely that he was simply trying to show respect in the interest of fostering positive relations between Christians and Muslims.
I think it’s alright for people to question the prudence of the manner in which JPII went about this task, but some people go overboard and start accusing JPII of heresy or collaborating with terrorists, etc. I don’t buy into that type of hype.
Jimmy Akin presents some nice speculating on what JPII might have been thinking in this incident. It’s very well thought out and doesn’t play into any hysteria, even though Akin thinks it was a mistake for JPII to do it: jimmyakin.org/2006/04/jp2_and_the_qur.html
I find that it is a good practice to give the Vicar of Christ on earth the benefit of the doubt.
Personally, I don’t read too much into the incident (which people are still talking about now, more than 10 years after it happened!). Of course, none of us can really know exactly what he was thinking, but for me it seems likely that he was simply trying to show respect in the interest of fostering positive relations between Christians and Muslims.
I think it’s alright for people to question the prudence of the manner in which JPII went about this task, but some people go overboard and start accusing JPII of heresy or collaborating with terrorists, etc. I don’t buy into that type of hype.
Jimmy Akin presents some nice speculating on what JPII might have been thinking in this incident. It’s very well thought out and doesn’t play into any hysteria, even though Akin thinks it was a mistake for JPII to do it: jimmyakin.org/2006/04/jp2_and_the_qur.html
I find that it is a good practice to give the Vicar of Christ on earth the benefit of the doubt.
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Mark77
Guest
**i agree. There are way too many arm-chair quarterbacks, too many “experts”, too many who make themselves their own pope!I think we should be very hesitant about accusing JPII of succumbing to the pressures of political correctness. It seems unlikely for someone who regularly spoke out against the cultural norms (in areas such as abortion, for example) to be so concerned about such a thing in this case.
Personally, I don’t read too much into the incident (which people are still talking about now, more than 10 years after it happened!). Of course, none of us can really know exactly what he was thinking, but for me it seems likely that he was simply trying to show respect in the interest of fostering positive relations between Christians and Muslims.
I think it’s alright for people to question the prudence of the manner in which JPII went about this task, but some people go overboard and start accusing JPII of heresy or collaborating with terrorists, etc. I don’t buy into that type of hype.
Jimmy Akin presents some nice speculating on what JPII might have been thinking in this incident. It’s very well thought out and doesn’t play into any hysteria, even though Akin thinks it was a mistake for JPII to do it: jimmyakin.org/2006/04/jp2_and_the_qur.html
I find that it is a good practice to give the Vicar of Christ on earth the benefit of the doubt.
**
It is not the Quran that is the main problem, it is the misguided people who would use any document, true or false, for evil.
**Jesus ate with sinners, tax collectors & many other non-Jews considered at the time to be “unclean”. He was not condoning their false beliefs, He was calling them to follow Him!!!
"“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the gospel.” (Mk 1:15)**
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!
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crazzeto
Guest
On the one hand the Pope get’s flack for showing some respect in an effort to heal some very violent tensions. On the other hand, he got flack again later by publishing papers which called Islam (among other faiths) “problematic”. What are you going to do? 
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dzheremi
Guest
Last time I checked I was not my own Pope, but I am my own person, and I think it was a big mistake. There are other ways to foster better relations that don’t involve sending out confusing messages out into the world. JPII should have thought of one of those. Don’t kiss the Qur’an. It is not a holy book.
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staffsgt7
Guest
There is a difference. If you guys want to differentiate good vs evil, basically the Pope kissed evil. Obama has been promoting evil (Islam) and trying to soften us up, not be judgemental to a murdering thug at Ft. Hood, letting murdering thugs in our land to have citizen’s rights, etc so bowing to evil was just submitting to his master.
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yellowbird
Guest
The Pope is human. It was a terrible error in judgement IMO. Terrible.
But I still love him.
But I still love him.
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LilyM
Guest
I have been told that it is a sign of respect in Middle Eastern cultures to kiss things that are given to you as gifts.
I’m sure if the comment about non-Muslims ‘defiling’ the Koran were true then he wouldn’t even have been given it as a gift (surely his hosts would be well aware that people touch gifts that are given to them, and the Koran would’ve been just as defiled by a touch from JP2 - or the non-Muslims around him - as a kiss )
To my mind it’s a bit like saying ‘thank you’ to Great-Aunt Ethel for her Christmas or birthday present, even if the present is something absolutely hideous, out of respect for her as the giver.
I’m sure if the comment about non-Muslims ‘defiling’ the Koran were true then he wouldn’t even have been given it as a gift (surely his hosts would be well aware that people touch gifts that are given to them, and the Koran would’ve been just as defiled by a touch from JP2 - or the non-Muslims around him - as a kiss
)To my mind it’s a bit like saying ‘thank you’ to Great-Aunt Ethel for her Christmas or birthday present, even if the present is something absolutely hideous, out of respect for her as the giver.
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Joe_5859
Guest
I think it bears mentioning that, more than likely, this was not some premeditated action on behalf of the pope that was intended to convey some message to the whole world. He was meeting with Muslims and they presented the book to him (which seems to me he would not have been able to anticipate). It seems like more of a “spur of the moment” kind of thing. He probably did not expect this one action to be such a point of contention.
He also placed a prayer in the Western Wall of the Jewish Temple.
He also placed a prayer in the Western Wall of the Jewish Temple.
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Publisher
Guest
I don’t believe it was a “misleading gesture” at all. John Paul was a man very secure in his belief in God and with his service to Him. He was a man very much heeding the words of Christ…“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you…” so he showed respect and tradition when accepting a gift from one of a differing tradition than his own…he kissed the gift.
He was a man who understood that God the Eternal One was also worshipped and honored by Muslims…even though according to his own views, very imperfectly…but John Paul honored them just the same. He had no need to be “politically correct”…he only found the need to be kind and gracious to someone of another faith…knowing that kindness and graciousness did not diminish his own faith…but enhanced it.
What Muslims do to Christians has nothing to do with how we treat Muslims. We are called to be “more”…we are called to follow Christ and his teachings of “love one another” even in the face of impending death…“even death on a cross”. Jesus loved extravagantly, completely, wholly and dangerously even from the cross.
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Bill_Pick
Guest
I do not know about the pope but in other co. it is a custom.
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Hisalone
Guest
I must say that we have some nasty EOs here. I certainly am not attracted to their Christian demeaner.
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