Why Did The Son of God Became Man?

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Yes, Tony…you are also reminding me of Zerinus…he was the character who was gleaning our thought and then towards the end of his time here showed us how he was using our site to build his treatise on the invalidation of Transubstantiation on his Mormon site.
I’m sorry you make that connection.
If you read through my posts, you will see I have not once mocked or ridiculed Catholic doctrine.

I’m just trying to help you see ccc 460 is about the Catholic teaching of divinization, or Theosis and not about communion. At that point you will understand this core doctrine predates Joseph Smith, it is not an LDS invention.
 
Please provide a doctrinal reference that confirmes CCC 460 is about communion and not about after we diel
  • If you can’t provide doctrine, please provide a credible theological reference that explains CCC460 is about communion.
If you cannot priovdie either of the above, then you really should accept CC460 is saying exactly what it means to say, no hidden meanings or double speak included.
"In an ancient prayer the Church acclaims the mystery of the Eucharist. ‘O sacred banquet in which Christ is received as food, the memory of his Passion is renewed, the soul is filled with grace and a pledge of the life to come is given to us.’ If the Eucharist is the memorial of the Passover of the Lord Jesus, if by our communion at the altar we are filled with ‘with every blessing and grace,’ then the Eucharist is also an anticipation of the heavenly glory." (CCC Par. 1402)

It is not a question of either our partaking of the divine life through the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ in the Eucharist or our partaking in the divine life of God in heaven through the beatific vision. It is both.
 
Paul, Please provide me with doctrinal references that support your belief.

I question you because the CCC 460 seems to be explicit, and it’s not referring to the Eucharist.
Tony,
You are correct in that theosis is the culmination of being partakers of the divine nature. But you are wrong in assuming (because you have only read that one paragraph in the CCC) that it is the only meaning or only aspect of this great truth. This partaking of the divine nature begins and continues with the reception of the sacraments, most importantly the eucharist.

One of the most important meanings of being partakers of the divine nature is abiding in Christ according to His precious promise: “He who eats My Flesh, and drinks My Blood abides in Me, and I in him” (John 6:56). By receiving this Sacrament we become members of His Body, of His Flesh and of His Bones (Ephesians 5:30), and we also become partakers of the Divine Nature, (2 Peter 1:4).

Here are a few good doctrinal references to get you started:

The Catechism of the Catholic Church:
The fruit of the sacramental life is that the Spirit of adoption makes the faithful partakers in the divine nature by uniting them in a living union with the only Son, the Savior. (CCC 1129).
"What faith confesses, the sacraments communicate: by the sacraments of rebirth, Christians have become “children of God,” “partakers of the divine nature.” (CCC 1692).
Early Church Fathers:
Therefore with fullest assurance let us partake as of the Body and Blood of Christ: for in the figure of Bread is given to thee His Body, and in the figure of Wine His Blood; that thou by partaking of the Body and Blood of Christ, mightest be made of the same body and the same blood with Him. For thus we come to bear Christ in us, because His Body and Blood are diffused through our members; thus it is that, according to the blessed Peter, we become partaker of the divine nature. [2 Peter 1:4]
  • St. Cyril of Jerusalem (360 AD), Catechetical Lectures [22 (Mystagogic 4), 3]
The sacrament of the body and blood of Christ, which we receive, is a divine thing, because by it we are made partakers of the divine-nature. Yet the substance or nature of the bread and wine does not cease.
  • Pope Gelasius (496 AD) De duabus naturis in Christo Adv. Eutychen et Nestorium (in the Bibl. Max. Patrum, tom. viii. p. 703)
Hope this helps,

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
mwok, so you are admitting defeat and asking me to find doctrine for you?

CCC 460 is all about theosis, not about weekly communion.
No, not admitting defeat. I forgot, I must remind all you former mormons turned Catholics(like me) that we cannot convince Tony the errs of mormonism because as we all were taught that he is protected by the guidence of the Holy Ghost.

And I must remind you,Tony, that we cannot understand mormon theology as it is hidden from us fallen-away mormons.
 
One of the teaching questions in the CCC is - WHY DID THE WORD BECOME FLESH?

Five specific reasons are given. I’ve summarized them below for brevity but here is a link to the CCC source

  1. *]For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven
    *]in order to save us by reconciling us with God
    *]so that thus we might know God’s love
    *]to be our model of holiness
    *]to make us "partakers of the divine nature"

    I believe the LDS theology agrees with the Catholics on all five points (maybe we should be called 5 point catholics?)

  1. Who is he in #1?
 
Tony,
I invite your thoughts on my response #63. So far all I hear is crickets…

Paul
 
Tony,
You are correct in that theosis is the culmination of being partakers of the divine nature. But you are wrong in assuming (because you have only read that one paragraph in the CCC) that it is the only meaning or only aspect of this great truth. This partaking of the divine nature begins and continues with the reception of the sacraments, most importantly the eucharist.

One of the most important meanings of being partakers of the divine nature is abiding in Christ according to His precious promise: “He who eats My Flesh, and drinks My Blood abides in Me, and I in him” (John 6:56). By receiving this Sacrament we become members of His Body, of His Flesh and of His Bones (Ephesians 5:30), and we also become partakers of the Divine Nature, (2 Peter 1:4).

Here are a few good doctrinal references to get you started:

The Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Early Church Fathers:


Hope this helps,

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
Hi Paul,
Yes, communion along with the other sacraments brings us clsoer to God. Are they not ALL divine?
No, you haven’t shown CCC460 was specific to Communion.

I have not seen any of the ECF tie communion in as the key component to deification.
What I have seen stated is we are expected to obey all his commandments, not just communion.

Why do you constantly second guess the Vatican? They have had multiple opportunities to add clarification to the sections “Why Did Christ become Man” I think it says what they mean it to say, without riddles.
 
Hi Paul,
Yes, communion along with the other sacraments brings us clsoer to God. Are they not ALL divine?
No, you haven’t shown CCC460 was specific to Communion.

I have not seen any of the ECF tie communion in as the key component to deification.
What I have seen stated is we are expected to obey all his commandments, not just communion.

Why do you constantly second guess the Vatican? They have had multiple opportunities to add clarification to the sections “Why Did Christ become Man” I think it says what they mean it to say, without riddles.
Well Tony, you are what you eat right?
 
The whole section of the Catechism prior to CC460 is very clear Christ alone is God and not us.

Christ is the Pearl of Great Price.

Christ is the great treasure. He said He would remain with us always. He gave us His sacraments. His gospels teach us the way to holiness…Christ Who is, and who we are not. We reflect on Jesus Eternal Word. We receive Jesus Incarnate word in the Eucharist.

Like Mary, we share in her ‘fiat’…of saying Yes to Jesus…and no to Satan, I will not become as a god like our first parents, Adam and Eve. Instead of far away places, God is with us.

Christ carries our burden, makes our yoke light, is the fountain of Love ever before us to draw on. It is about love, communion, truthfulness, fidelity, laying down one’s life for Christ…our religion has thousands of years of martyrs who have died for Christ, and did not live corrupt lives.

You see the saints whose bodies are incorrupt, who lived on the Eucharist and prayer, many letting go of normal sleep and food…they lived in supernatural grace, many hidden from the limelight, and being no strangers to suffering.

It is the Risen Lord that we draw on in the Eucharist, and in Him we are raised up and made new one day at a time…all for loving God and our neighbor.
 
Hi Paul,
Yes, communion along with the other sacraments brings us clsoer to God. Are they not ALL divine?
No, you haven’t shown CCC460 was specific to Communion.

I have not seen any of the ECF tie communion in as the key component to deification.
What I have seen stated is we are expected to obey all his commandments, not just communion.

Why do you constantly second guess the Vatican? They have had multiple opportunities to add clarification to the sections “Why Did Christ become Man” I think it says what they mean it to say, without riddles.
You keep answering statements that no one has made. Are you quite well?
 
I see your logic, but we both now that is not how real doctrine is created.
  • Please provide a doctrinal reference that confirmes CCC 460 is about communion and not about after we diel
  • If you can’t provide doctrine, please provide a credible theological reference that explains CCC460 is about communion.
If you cannot priovdie either of the above, then you really should accept CC460 is saying exactly what it means to say, no hidden meanings or double speak included.
Post 1 of 2
**The doctrine of the Church regarding the effects or the fruits of Holy Communion centres around two ideas: (a) the union with Christ by love and (b) the spiritual repast of the soul. Both ideas are often verified in one and same effect of Holy Communion. The union with Christ by love
The first and principal effect of the Holy Eucharist is union with Christ by love (Decr. pro Armenis: adunatio ad Christum), which union as such does not consist in the sacramental reception of the Host, but in the spiritual and mystical union with Jesus by the theological virtue of love.** Christ Himself designated the idea of Communion as a union love: “He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh blood, abideth in me, and I in him” (John 6:57). St. Cyril of Alexandria (Hom. in Joan., IV, xvii) beautifully represents this mystical union as the fusion of our being into that of the God-man, as “when melted wax is fused with other wax”. Since the Sacrament of Love is not satisfied with an increase of habitual love only, but tends especially to fan the flame of actual love to an intense ardor, the Holy Eucharist is specifically distinguished from the other sacraments, and hence it is precisely in this latter effect that Francisco Suárez, recognizes the so-called “grace of the sacrament”, which otherwise is so hard to discern. It stands to reason that the essence of this union by love consists neither in a natural union with Jesus analogous to that between soul and body, nor in a hypostatic union of the soul with the Person of the Word, nor finally in a pantheistical deification of the communicant, but simply in a moral but wonderful union with Christ by the bond of the most ardent charity. Hence the chief effect of a worthy Communion is to a certain extent a foretaste of heaven, in fact the anticipation and pledge of our future union with God by love in the Beatific Vision. He alone can properly estimate the precious boon which Catholics possess in the Holy Eucharist, who knows how to ponder these ideas of Holy Communion to their utmost depth. The immediate result of this union with Christ by love is the bond of charity existing between the faithful themselves as St. Paul says: “For we being many, are one bread, one body, all that partake of one bread” (1 Corinthians 10:17). And so the Communion of Saints is not merely an ideal union by faith and grace, but an eminently real union, mysteriously constituted, maintained, and guaranteed by partaking in common of one and the same Christ.
continued…
 
Post 2 of 2
The spiritual repast of the soul
A second fruit of this union with Christ by love is an increase of sanctifying grace in the soul of the worthy communicant. Here let it be remarked at the outset, that the Holy Eucharist does not per se constitute a person in the state of grace as do the sacraments of the dead (baptism and penance), but presupposes such a state. It is, therefore, one of the sacraments of the living. It is as impossible for the soul in the state of mortal sin to receive this Heavenly Bread with profit, as it is for a corpse to assimilate food and drink. Hence the Council of Trent (Sess. XIII. can. v), in opposition to Luther and Calvin, purposely defined, that the “chief fruit of the Eucharist does not consist in the forgiveness of sins”. For though Christ said of the Chalice: “This is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins” (Matthew 26:28), He had in view an effect of the sacrifice, not of the sacrament; for He did not say that His Blood would be drunk unto remission of sins, but shed for that purpose. It is for this very reason that St. Paul (1 Corinthians 11:28) demands that rigorous “self-examination”, in order to avoid the heinous offense of being guilty of the Body and the Blood of the Lord by “eating and drinking unworthily”, and that the Fathers insist upon nothing so energetically as upon a pure and innocent conscience. In spite of the principles just laid down, the question might be asked, if the Blessed Sacrament could not at times per accidens free the communicant from mortal sin, if he approached the Table of the Lord unconscious of the sinful state of his soul. Presupposing what is self-evident, that there is question neither of a conscious sacrilegious Communion nor a lack of imperfect contrition (attritio), which would altogether hinder the justifying effect of the sacrament, theologians incline to the opinion, that in such exceptional cases the Eucharist can restore the soul to the state of grace, but all without exception deny the possibility of the reviviscence of a sacrilegious or unfruitful Communion after the restoration of the soul’s proper moral condition has been effected, the Eucharist being different in this respect from the sacraments which imprint a character upon the soul (baptism, confirmation, and Holy orders). Together with the increase of sanctifying grace there is associated another effect, namely, a certain spiritual relish or delight of soul (delectatio spiritualis). Just as food and drink delight and refresh the heart of man, so does this “Heavenly Bread containing within itself all sweetness” produce in the soul of the devout communicant ineffable bliss, which, however, is not to be confounded with an emotional joy of the soul or with sensible sweetness. Although both may occur as the result of a special grace, its true nature is manifested in a certain cheerful and willing fervor in all that regards Christ and His Church, and in the conscious fulfillment of the duties of one’s state of life, a disposition of soul which is perfectly compatible with interior desolation and spiritual dryness. A good Communion is recognized less in the transitory sweetness of the emotions than in its lasting practical effects on the conduct of our daily lives.
No doublespeak.
 
I want to thank those of you who have gone into deeper explanation of Catholic doctrine on this. Even though I doubt it will enlighten Tony’s understanding, it has mine. 🙂

👍 Thank you.
 
Rebecca,
I’m not disupting you the individual see a connection, I’m just asking if it is really doctrine, and from where.

None of the supporting quotes in CCC 460 indicate the Eucharst. Nor do the ECF quotes I included in my OP
That’s because you are, as I have already said, quote mining. Taking one or a few sentences out of context. It may seem clever to you, but it isn’t. It is plain and simply, foolishness.
 
I’m done with Tony. He doesn’t really read or respond to anything I write - just keeps pounding on what he believes is a proof-text for exaltation (CCC 460). No matter how carefully we explain and document the Catholic understanding, he just keeps on like a broken record CCC 460… CCC 460… CCC 460…

Mormons only know how to proof-text, and their proof-texts are never on point.

Paul (Formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
I’m just trying to help you see ccc 460 is about the Catholic teaching of divinization,…
You have lifted one sentence from Part One, Section two, Chapter Two, Article 3, of the Catholic Catechism. Article 3 is about the Incarnation. It is not about the Catholic teaching of divination or theosis.
 
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