Why didn't God become an Angel?

[Kurisu35712]

Also, as far as “fighting the enemy.” While the demons are our enemies, it is not our job, responsibility, or even ability to fight them. We should certainly fight their influence, but the world is not an episode of Supernatural or Constantine. We are called to love God above all else, and to love our neighbors. We are, to my knowledge, not commanded to fight demons. Even in exorcisms, the priest is not fighting a demon. The priest is invoking the name of Jesus, and God Himself is the one doing the fighting. Even understanding the nature of angels would not give us the prerogative to engage demons in some form of combat. That is neither our purpose nor our responsibility. Our focus is, as always, to seek God in all things and to love and glorify Him, and to eventually join Him in Heaven when we die. Demons distract us from this goal on purpose. I would consider fighting them to be a distraction. Just my opinion.

 

[Dorothy]

That’s exactly what I was trying to say.

Sure, you can’t do that, but why is there so much accent put on angels when we virtually know nothing about them? That’s just silly and foolish. And…how can you fight your enemy when you don’t know anything about them? Demons are angels too. Everything about them doesn’t make sense and that’s what unsettles me. You’re put in a very vulnerable position this way.

This site can help a lot about the angels:

opusangelorum.org/english.html

Also, this is an excellent book “Angels and Demons” by professor Peter Kreeft.

The fallen angels (demons) fell from grace because of a rebellion against God. Jesus is Victor. There is plenty we can do in their battle with us.

God gave them a view of what would happen if they rebelled, and they did so anyway. God didn’t intend for evil to begin, but He uses the fallen angels to tempt us (they are on a leash, so to speak), and when we resist we grow in grace.

There is a great deal we can know about the angels

 

[kyrie03]

That’s exactly what I was trying to say.

Sure, you can’t do that, but why is there so much accent put on angels when we virtually know nothing about them? That’s just silly and foolish. And…how can you fight your enemy when you don’t know anything about them? Demons are angels too. Everything about them doesn’t make sense and that’s what unsettles me. You’re put in a very vulnerable position this way.

The accent put on angels can be a deceptive ploy to encourage our seeking superior knowledge “gnosis”. Angels are so vastly superior and mysterious to us that we are naturally intrigued. You can trust what we know about Angels from Scripture, the Fathers of the Church, and tradition. A simple place to get accurate information is the Baltimore catechism. I found an online version-look under “creation” heading. baltimore-catechism.com/lesson4.htm

Angels are created spirits without bodies having great wisdom, power, and holiness. In heaven, the good angels see, love, and adore God. They help humans by praying for us, acting as messengers from God to us, and serving as our guardian angels. Every human has a personal guardian assigned by God to pray for, protect from spiritual and physical harm, and inspire him/her to do good. At all times your angel not only watches you, but also sees the face of God. You can and should nurture a devotion to your angel by asking him to help you love God perfectly, by thanking him for his service, etc… You can get to know all of the nine choirs of Angels by praying the Chaplet to St Michael ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/chaplet-of-st-michael.htm

The bad angels or devils are those who chose not to serve God. They try to harm humans by tempting us to sin. But we shouldn’t fear them because no temptation can force us to sin and God will always help us if we ask Him. Some may have heard stories of saints (Desert Fathers, St. John Marie Vianney, St. Padre Pio, etc…) who’ve fiercely battled demons. But the demons only have as much power as God allows - and He allows only if it is for our greater sanctification.

For more details about the creation of the Angels, their fall, and their influence, I recommend reading what the mystic Ven Mary of Agreda wrote in “the Mystical City of God”. (See volume 1, chapter VII) ecatholic2000.com/agreda/vol1/vol1.shtml

 

[kyrie03]

If God became an angel how would we know about it one way or the other?

Trying to understand the mind of God (or of the Angels) is futile for our human intellects. We must conform to God, not attempt to conform our understanding of Him to our reasoning because we will be deceived. We only know what God has revealed. It has been revealed that God made the Angels vastly superior to humans. As another poster said, 1/3 of the Angels fell and 2/3 of Angels entered the eternal happiness of heaven. To speculate about things outside the scope of our comprehension and Divine Revealation is dangerous.

 

[Vivian42]

What exactly are you looking for here? No one in this thread is going to be able to tell you what St. Michael’s personality is like, or whether St. Gabriel likes to swim. There are several things that we know, as revealed in Scripture and interpreted by the Church and various Saints.

Angels are purely spiritual beings. They exist in eternity, though they are not eternal, as they all had a beginning.

Being pure spirit, with no body, not being subject to time, their will is also not subject to change. They have free will, but as they are pure spirit existing outside of time, there is no vacillation in their choices. Angels are presented with full knowledge and full understanding of the consequences of the choice they made, which is the choice we all face. Do I serve the will of God, or do I serve myself? 2/3 of the angels chose correctly, and having done so with full understanding and consent, reside eternally in Heaven with God. 1/3 chose incorrectly, with full knowledge and full consent of will, to oppose God’s will in favor of their own. These angels are known as demons, and like the souls in Hell, separated themselves eternally from God.

This is why an angel in Heaven will never change its mind. They can, as they still have free will, but their will is oriented towards God eternally, as are those of the saints in Heaven. After having perceived the Beatific Vision, they have no desire to leave God’s presence. Conversely, demons also will not change their minds. Just as a person who dies in a state of mortal sin has eternally oriented their soul and will against God, a demon has, with full knowledge and full consent, committed mortal sin and eternally rejects God.

We know that angels are organized in a hierarchy, which was explored in detail by St. Thomas, based on Scripture and logical analysis.

And to answer the OP’s question. The angels do not need to be elevated. The angels are like human souls who are already in Heaven, and we have 3 whose names have been revealed to us, namely Michael, Raphael, and Gabriel. They are considered Saints because, like the saints, they reside in Heaven in the presence of God. Thus they can intercede for us.

But, unlike even the saints, the angels do not have and have never had original sin, as they are not subject to time and don’t have bodies. Original sin is a consequence of human disobedience to God’s will. Unlike angels, humans are both body and soul. We are not pure spirit, and intrinsic to our nature is our body, which means we are a union of body and soul, not a soul with a body or a body with a soul. Who and what we are is the two of those things in union, which is why we are subject to time, and also why we will be resurrected on the last day. Our will is free, but as we are mortal, it is not fixed. When we commit mortal sin, it is done with full knowledge and full consent, but until our deaths our will itself is not fixed. As our bodies are subject to time, our will is subject to change while we still live. We can go to Confession to be forgiven for our sins, which is an act of will on our part that orients our souls back to God, and an act of Grace from God bestowed on us to return us to communion with Him.

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong about any of this.

Thank you for going through the trouble of writing all of this , but I already knew this. My problem is that it still seems just too little information for me… maybe it is just my curious nature but … It is not enough , certainly.

 

[Vivian42]

The accent put on angels can be a deceptive ploy to encourage our seeking superior knowledge “gnosis”. Angels are so vastly superior and mysterious to us that we are naturally intrigued. You can trust what we know about Angels from Scripture, the Fathers of the Church, and tradition. A simple place to get accurate information is the Baltimore catechism. I found an online version-look under “creation” heading. baltimore-catechism.com/lesson4.htm

Angels are created spirits without bodies having great wisdom, power, and holiness. In heaven, the good angels see, love, and adore God. They help humans by praying for us, acting as messengers from God to us, and serving as our guardian angels. Every human has a personal guardian assigned by God to pray for, protect from spiritual and physical harm, and inspire him/her to do good. At all times your angel not only watches you, but also sees the face of God. You can and should nurture a devotion to your angel by asking him to help you love God perfectly, by thanking him for his service, etc… You can get to know all of the nine choirs of Angels by praying the Chaplet to St Michael ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/chaplet-of-st-michael.htm

The bad angels or devils are those who chose not to serve God. They try to harm humans by tempting us to sin. But we shouldn’t fear them because no temptation can force us to sin and God will always help us if we ask Him. Some may have heard stories of saints (Desert Fathers, St. John Marie Vianney, St. Padre Pio, etc…) who’ve fiercely battled demons. But the demons only have as much power as God allows - and He allows only if it is for our greater sanctification.

For more details about the creation of the Angels, their fall, and their influence, I recommend reading what the mystic Ven Mary of Agreda wrote in “the Mystical City of God”. (See volume 1, chapter VII) ecatholic2000.com/agreda/vol1/vol1.shtml

Thank you for the provided links. I’ll check them out and see if there is anything of interest there…

 

[Vivian42]

Also, as far as “fighting the enemy.” While the demons are our enemies, it is not our job, responsibility, or even ability to fight them. We should certainly fight their influence, but the world is not an episode of Supernatural or Constantine. We are called to love God above all else, and to love our neighbors. We are, to my knowledge, not commanded to fight demons. Even in exorcisms, the priest is not fighting a demon. The priest is invoking the name of Jesus, and God Himself is the one doing the fighting. Even understanding the nature of angels would not give us the prerogative to engage demons in some form of combat. That is neither our purpose nor our responsibility. Our focus is, as always, to seek God in all things and to love and glorify Him, and to eventually join Him in Heaven when we die. Demons distract us from this goal on purpose. I would consider fighting them to be a distraction. Just my opinion.

It would be very benefic to know their way of thinking at least partially in order to resist temptation efficiently . And also to prepare ourselves better knowing what is to come

 

[e_c]

It would be very benefic to know their way of thinking at least partially in order to resist temptation efficiently . And also to prepare ourselves better knowing what is to come

They can’t read thoughts, but they can read body language very, very well.

Don’t worry over this topic too much.

 

[kyrie03]

:

They can’t read thoughts, but they can read body language very, very well.

Don’t worry over this topic too much.

Exactly!
Worry and fear without prayer and trust in God’s loving care for you can attract unwanted influences. Before attempting to understand devils, you need to immerse yourself in getting to know, love and serve God. Don’t go searching for trouble!

For Byzantine Catholics, Monday is the day we commemorate the Angels. This is what we pray:
O Leaders of the heavenly armies, although we are unworthy, we beseech you that with your prayers you may encircle us with the protection of the wings of your angelic glory. Watch over us as we bow low and earnestly cry out to you: Deliver us from trouble, O Princes of the heavenly armies.
O Princes of the armies of God, and servants of Divine Glory, guardians of human creatures and leaders of the heavenly hosts, intercede for us that we obtain what is good for us, and seek abundant mercy for us, for you are the Princes of the heavenly armies.

 

[fisherman_carl]

Trying to understand the mind of God (or of the Angels) is futile for our human intellects. We must conform to God, not attempt to conform our understanding of Him to our reasoning because we will be deceived. We only know what God has revealed. It has been revealed that God made the Angels vastly superior to humans. As another poster said, 1/3 of the Angels fell and 2/3 of Angels entered the eternal happiness of heaven. To speculate about things outside the scope of our comprehension and Divine Revealation is dangerous.

Yeah, It’s kind of like asking how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I think though what others have said already answers the question for me. Fr. Mitch Pacwa says that metaphysically angels can not change their minds once they have made a decision. Since they are pure spirit. They don’t have bodies like us that change and grow and mature. We might for instance at one stage of life think one way and then eventually grow out of that thinking. The angels don’t have any such process. Once their intellect has all the information they make their decision permanently. Thus, any kind of rescue operation would be fruitless.

 

[o_mlly]

Being pure spirit, with no body, not being subject to time, their will is also not subject to change. They have free will, but as they are pure spirit existing outside of time, there is no vacillation in their choices. Angels are presented with full knowledge and full understanding of the consequences of the choice they made, which is the choice we all face…

This is not a correction! It is good to meditate on the trial of the angels. Bishop Sheen often made the angels’ test a topic of his retreats (maronitemonks.org/articles/April2012.pdf).

Since in eternity nothing changes, Blessed Sheen places the angels in time for an instant. I suspect that doing so is a logical step in order that a change in their being may occur – some were allowed and others denied the Beatific Vision.

 

[Kurisu35712]

This is not a correction! It is good to meditate on the trial of the angels. Bishop Sheen often made the angels’ test a topic of his retreats (maronitemonks.org/articles/April2012.pdf).

Since in eternity nothing changes, Blessed Sheen places the angels in time for an instant. I suspect that doing so is a logical step in order that a change in their being may occur – some were allowed and others denied the Beatific Vision.

Interesting article, thanks for sharing!

 

[hasantas]

God is God. Son is human.Holy Spirit is angel.

Everthing must stay where it stands.

 

[Dorothy]

God is God. Son is human.Holy Spirit is angel.

Everthing must stay where it stands.

We believe that all three are God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Three Divine Persons,…One God.

 

[Kurisu35712]

God is God. Son is human.Holy Spirit is angel.

Everthing must stay where it stands.

You are free to believe this, but as it is contrary to Catholic doctrine, don’t expect anyone to agree with you.

 

[Vivian42]

They can’t read thoughts, but they can read body language very, very well.

Don’t worry over this topic too much.

Why not? After all my curiosity will lead me to darker paths if I don’t get my answers here…

 

[Sarcelle]

Also, as far as “fighting the enemy.” While the demons are our enemies, it is not our job, responsibility, or even ability to fight them. We should certainly fight their influence, but the world is not an episode of Supernatural or Constantine. We are called to love God above all else, and to love our neighbors. We are, to my knowledge, not commanded to fight demons. Even in exorcisms, the priest is not fighting a demon. The priest is invoking the name of Jesus, and God Himself is the one doing the fighting. Even understanding the nature of angels would not give us the prerogative to engage demons in some form of combat. That is neither our purpose nor our responsibility. Our focus is, as always, to seek God in all things and to love and glorify Him, and to eventually join Him in Heaven when we die. Demons distract us from this goal on purpose. I would consider fighting them to be a distraction. Just my opinion.

Right.

Our primary purpose on earth is to know and love God.

Demons are dangerous distractions.

 

[hasantas]

God do not become anything else except being God! For istance God do not become a dove.