Why didn't God create us all with Mary's grace?

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santaro75

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I got the following explanation of Mary’s sinless state from the ewtn website. My question is…Why wouldn’t God create us all with this special grace. that would solve everything.

from this website ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marysum.htm

“Summary of Marian Doctrine
The Catholic Church teaches that by a free decision of God, the Blessed Virgin Mary was elevated to become the Mother of His Son Jesus Christ and Jesus’ worthy associate in redeeming mankind. She was prepared for this role by being preserved by God’s grace from all sin, original and personal, throughout her entire life, and was rewarded at the end of her life for her cooperation with God’s plan by being taken up, body and soul, into Heaven, where she reigns with her Son as Queen of the Universe, and whence she distributes to men all the graces which, with, through and under her Son, she helped to merit on Calvary.”
 
Well,
Have you committed actual sin?
will you continue to commit actual sin even though the grace of God through the cross and resurection give you the grace not to?

Remember, that after baptism, we are in the same position Mary was in, we are free from original sin. Every sin after that is our fault.

Mary was given grace, but the amazing thing is that she responded to that grace in an extraordinary way.

We are all given Mary’s grace, just at the point of Baptism and not at the point of conception.

Remember the old saying " There but for the grace of God go I"

A lone Raven
 
Good answer! 👍

I wish I hadn’t filled my mind with so much filth durring my life. 😦
 
corvidae said:
Well,
Have you committed actual sin?
will you continue to commit actual sin even though the grace of God through the cross and resurection give you the grace not to?

Remember, that after baptism, we are in the same position Mary was in, we are free from original sin. Every sin after that is our fault.

Mary was given grace, but the amazing thing is that she responded to that grace in an extraordinary way.

We are all given Mary’s grace, just at the point of Baptism and not at the point of conception.

Remember the old saying " There but for the grace of God go I"

A lone Raven
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I think a correction is needed here…

Mary was also conceived without the tendency to sin called concupensense. That is the tendency to sin by our fallen state, which remains after baptism, even while we are made children of God, and all sin is forgiven up to that point, we still must fight against the tendency to sin.

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+

Pillar and Foundation of Truth, the Church. (1 Tim 3:15)
 
True,
But none the less, Mary could have sinned.
We are given the same Grace by God, or else we are predestined to offend. It may be more hard for us, but it is still possible.

My sins are just that, Mine. No one else’s fault, and not even my fallen human nature can cause me to sin, only I can.

A lone Raven
 
There are droves of people it seems who believe that the the first chapters of Genesis is fiction. Well, anyway, in Genesis it says that by the will of God, mankind was ejected from paradise on earth. It was God’s intention to NOT create us all with Mary’s grace.

What would be special about Mary, if she did not have special grace? That development highlights, again, the will of God that would unfold through Mary.

A parallel notion I have expounded in other threads is that the perpetual virginity of Mary also highlights the will of God, that “hey look here, this child is the promised Messiah.” It’s a backdrop for Jesus, and an anticipation of the salvation that He was bringing with Him.

Just my thoughts. I’ll take anything better, of course.
 
For the answer to the question, see the end of the Book of Job.
 
santaro75 said:
I got the following explanation of Mary’s sinless state from the ewtn website. My question is…Why wouldn’t God create us all with this special grace. that would solve everything.
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Well, it didn’t solve everything for Adam and Eve.
 
Before going any further, may we have a clarification?

I think that people are mixing up grace and original sin.

Mary was one of only three beings who were created withoutoriginal sin (Jesus is not a creation but a Creator). The three beings are Adam, Eve, and Mary.

These three beings had the ‘ordinary’ graces that all human beings receive. However, they did not suffer from the taint of original sin.

Even though Adam and Eve had all the graces from God and also no taint of original sin, they still chose to sin.

Mary, on the other hand, had all the graces from God, no taint of original sin, and chose not to sin.

This is the reason that Mary is the supreme example of what humanity *could have * been. It is why she is referred to as the “new Eve”; and why Genesis 3:15 refers to her as the one who will crush the serpent’s head. It is why we give her great honor as the highest and best of all creatures.

But you see, Adam and Eve had already shown that humanity, even with no taint of original sin, could and would sin. Further, even though Jesus has temporaly ‘come into the world’, the effects of that original sin will last through all humanity for all are descended of Adam and Eve, and the only ‘reason’ for God to have lifted, or redeemed, Mary through virtue of her Immaculate Conception was for her to fulful her temporal ‘fiat’ as the spotless Ark of the New Covenant and Mother of God. We know that there will be no further ‘incarnation.’ Mary performed the miracle of bearing the Christ Child for us.
 
well, why would God create us with original sin then? Was Mary not a descendant of adam and eve?
 
santaro75 said:
well, why would God create us with original sin then? Was Mary not a descendant of adam and eve?
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I noticed too that your question was not actually answered. I think that the reason for this is that currently I know of no good answer to this question. A similar question would be, “Why did Jesus have to die to reconcile us to the Father? Could not have God just decided to reconcile us through a free act of His will?” The answer to this is of course yes. God could have redeemed us in any manner of His choosing. However, as an example He chose to save us by the means of the Cross. Just as He chose to bestow this unique gift given to Mary.

I think that it would be fair to say that because God chose to redeem us through the Incarnation the gift given to Mary was a necessary gift for that purpose. It was not necessary to bestow on us the same gift because you or I or anyone save Mary was the Mother of Our Incarnate Lord. Why then was this necessary?

To understand this is to understand the work of the Fathers of the Church and Blessed John Duns Scotus on this topic. It was their contention that Jesus in the flesh must have taken His flesh from an uncorrupted source so that in His humanity He did not inherit Original Sin. Original Sin is transmitted through actual generation. He needed this freedom from Original Sin because the gravity of the sin of Adam was done from a the preternatural state and then so too the reconciliation through obedience must have also been from the preternatural state in Christ’s humanity. This is why no mere man could make adequate propitiation because no man since Adam existed in that state of perfection. So as a result of this Mary must have been uncorrupted as it was from her that He took His flesh.

Could God have chosen to save us all in this manner? Perhaps, but then we would never have received such great a Savior as God come down from heaven to share in our humanity so fully that he calls us not servant but brother and son.
 
Well, first of all, it’s because we don’t have to carry the Saviour the way she did, physically, for nine months. So we’re not created in the same way Mary was. But Mary is what we should have been before the Fall, and she is what we become once we are baptized and reborn into Christ.
 
mosher said:
I noticed too that your question was not actually answered. I think that the reason for this is that currently I know of no good answer to this question. A similar question would be, “Why did Jesus have to die to reconcile us to the Father? Could not have God just decided to reconcile us through a free act of His will?” The answer to this is of course yes. God could have redeemed us in any manner of His choosing. However, as an example He chose to save us by the means of the Cross. Just as He chose to bestow this unique gift given to Mary.
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I agree with you. I don’t think we can answer this question as much as meditate upon it. And the focus of my mediation on the question “why are we all born in original sin?” is the words from the liturgy on Holy Saturday, “O felix culpa quae talem et tantum meruit habere redemptorem.” (O happy fault which which received as its reward so great and so good a redeemer.)

No fall, no Redeemer. No fall, no Incarnation.
 
santaro75 said:
well, why would God create us with original sin then? Was Mary not a descendant of adam and eve?
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I think this question is properly answered during the Easter Vigil, during the Exultate.
“Oh happy fault of Adam, which gave for us so great a Redeemer”.
In answer to Mary’s descendency, of course she descended from Adam, she was just graced by God not to receive the stain of Original Sin.
 
Mary is blessed, but she is not ‘lucky’, in that in some cosmic game of craps she somehow ‘won’ the gift of being the Mother of God.
 
corvidae said:
True,
But none the less, Mary could have sinned.
We are given the same Grace by God, or else we are predestined to offend. It may be more hard for us, but it is still possible.

My sins are just that, Mine. No one else’s fault, and not even my fallen human nature can cause me to sin, only I can.

A lone Raven
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Prisons are stuffed full of young men who were sinned against in a serious way in childhood, and who didn’t have a real chance.

Sin causes sin.

However ultimately you cannot blame others for the way you are. You have to take responsibility yourself, and make the best you can of your life.
 
santaro75 said:
so Mary is blessed and very lucky to have recieved these graces.
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Mary is blessed in that she received an abundance of grace from God, including being spared from original sin. Is Mary lucky? I suppose in the sense that we are all lucky that God has offered his grace to us and given us the sacrament of baptism so that we can also be spared from original sin. And always remember, original sin is a consequence of our first parents - Adam and Eve -freely choosing to reject God’s command.

In the discussion about Mary, a lot of very very good comments were made about the grace that Mary received. But I haven’t seen much comment on the other component in play here, the free choices that Mary made in conjunction with God’s grace. Grace is not forced upon the recipient. It can be rejected. To Mary’s great and everlasting credit, she did not do that.

How many of us (assuming by “us” we are referring to women) would have responded like Mary to the Angel Gabriel? Here is what the Catholic Encylopedia has to say:

*And the angel having taken the figure and the form of man, came into the house and said to her: “Hail, full of grace (to whom is given grace, favoured one), the Lord is with thee.” Mary having heard the greeting words did not speak; she was troubled in spirit, since she knew not the angel, nor the cause of his coming, nor the meaning of the salutation. And the angel continued and said: “Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God. Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob forever. And of his kingdom there shall be no end.” The Virgin understood that there was question of the coming Redeemer. But, why should she be elected from amongst women for the splendid dignity of being the mother of the Messiah, having vowed her virginity to God? (St. Augustine). Therefore, not doubting the word of Godlike Zachary, but filled with fear and astonishment, she said: “How shall this be done, because I know not man?”

The angel to remove Mary’s anxiety and to assure her that her virginity would be spared, answered: “The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” In token of the truth of his word he made known to her the conception of St. John, the miraculous pregnancy of her relative now old and sterile: “And behold, thy cousin Elizabeth; she also has conceived a son in herold age, and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren: because no word shall be impossible with God.” Mary may not yet have fully understood the meaning of the heavenly message and how the maternity might be reconciled with her vow of virginity, but clinging to the first words of the angel and trusting to the Omnipotence of God she said: “Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it done to me according to thy word.”*

Even with God’s grace, how many of us would have so responded? So getting back to your original question as to why God didn’t create us with Mary’s grace. I think we can only answer it by asking another question: Even if He did, would we freely choose to respond to it the way God desires? Perhaps not. And if not, then maybe we have answered the question.
 
tdgesq said:
In the discussion about Mary, a lot of very very good comments were made about the grace that Mary received. But I haven’t seen much comment on the other component in play here, the free choices that Mary made in conjunction with God’s grace. Grace is not forced upon the recipient. It can be rejected. To Mary’s great and everlasting credit, she did not do that.
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I think you did not hear that discussion because it was not intrinsic to the question. The question was primarily about the Immaculate Conception and why God did not create each of us as He did Mary. So, in effect this particular grace given to Mary was actually forced upon Her as she never had a choice as to whether she would receive it or not. Rather, her choices began when she chose to perfectly fulfill God’s will. But the singular gift of being born without Original Sin was in no way a choice save by God alone who chose to offer this role in the story of salvation of Mary.
 
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