Why didn't God provide a plan of salvation for fallen angels?

[pyro_alchemist]

If I understand Catholic teaching correctly, the angels were given free will just like us and some of them chose to disobey God just like Adam and Eve. Why then, did God provide a plan of salvation for mankind and not for the fallen angels?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Angels, like people, have free will. But that will for the angels is irrevocable and unchanging once made; people OTOH can change their wills at any point until the moment of death.

See, Salvation isn’t for those who damn themselves. Salvation is for those who would on their own merit hell, but who choose God’s free gift of salvation in Christ.

Since the angels have chosen to reject God’s gift for all time, they are in exactly the same position as those human beings who, at the moment of death, in their last chance to accept salvation. . .refuse it.

God then ‘did’ plan salvation for all --angels and men alike. However, the angels had one moment where they could accept salvation or reject it–and at that one moment, some chose to reject. Men have all their lives to accept or reject it–and at death some will, sadly, still reject that salvation just as those fallen angels did.

 

[TEPO]

If I understand Catholic teaching correctly, the angels were given free will just like us and some of them chose to disobey God just like Adam and Eve. Why then, did God provide a plan of salvation for mankind and not for the fallen angels?

What makes you think the fallen angels even want salvation. Satan provides for them. They surely knew as angels themselves that hell was their only reward. They willingly turned against God and heaven. What they did was like suicide, there was no turning back, and they accepted it.

As for us men, we must carry our cross throughout our lifetime here on earth. Then we pay for our mistakes in purgatory before we finally reach our salvation. It is no easy task; we have to work for it, and is only available for those who choose it. Very few choose this life.

 

[Eucharisted]

The fallen angels committed a mortal sin of such gravity, due to their knowledge of God, that their choice was irrevocable. They had determined for all eternity to reject the Lord.

 

[Benadam]

Angels possess the full revelation of God proper to them at the instant of their creation. If they reject God they have committed an eternal sin. There is nothing more of Himself that God could reveal to them that could change their mind. They know God in a s full a manner as is proper to them as creatures. If they still reject God what more can God do?

 

[itinerant1]

Angels possess the full revelation of God proper to them at the instant of their creation. If they reject God they have committed an eternal sin. There is nothing more of Himself that God could reveal to them that could change their mind. They know God in a s full a manner as is proper to them as creatures. If they still reject God what more can God do?

What do you mean by the statement, “Angels possess the full revelation of God proper to them at the instant of their creation.”??

 

[Jason_1977]

I’m kinda new to the church, I’m saavy in scripture, but I must admit, this is a grey area for me. Where is this information coming from? Thanks!

Respectfully,

Jason

Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host -
by the Divine Power of God -
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits,
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.

Amen

 

[James_S_Saint]

I’m kinda new to the church, I’m saavy in scripture, but I must admit, this is a grey area for me. Where is this information coming from? Thanks!

Yeah that was what I was thinking.

Where does the CC teach that angels have free will? I have a hard time imagining an angel even making a decision.

 

[itinerant1]

Yeah that was what I was thinking.

Where does the CC teach that angels have free will? I have a hard time imagining an angel even making a decision.

Why can’t you imagine an angel making a decision? Do you think they are automatons? Will is a function of rationality. The angels are pure intellect and have free will just as humans do. There would be no dignity in human beings or angels if they lacked free will.

 

[James_S_Saint]

The angels are pure intellect and have free will just as humans do. There would be no dignity in human beings or angels if they lacked free will.

Sweet thought, but exactly where did you get that thought?

 

[Jason_1977]

Yeah that was what I was thinking.

Where does the CC teach that angels have free will? I have a hard time imagining an angel even making a decision.

It’s always been my understanding that Angels, though higher in standing & rank as far as the powers that be are concerned, humans are favored more so in Gods eyes than the angels. BUT if an angel says DO, then we DO because God sent them to TELL US TO DO…lol I am going to take a look and check this out, but I think the Angels, (I’m going on opinion) are the soldiers & messengers of heaven, (the supernatural ones anyway). That’s essentially it. As far as free will? You know what? let me grab my catechism…OK…Angels…Here’s the topics on angels in the Catechism: ANGEL(S): In the anaphora, birth of Christ, Christ and, in the church’s life, cosmic order and the guardianship of, existence of truthof faith, fallen, gabriel announcing, gone astray, guardian, heaven and , identity and duties of, images in art, protectors of men. Dude, check it out, the catechism 311…“ANGELS AND MEN, AS INTELLIGENT AND FREE CREATURES, HAVE TO JOURNEY TOWARD THEIR ULTIMATE DESTINIES BY THEIR FREE CHOICE AND PREFERENTIAL LOVE. THEY CAN THEREFORE GO ASTRAY. INDEED THEY HAVE SINNED. THUS HAS A MORAL EVIL, INCOMMENSURABLY MORE HARMFUL THAN PHYSICAL EVIL ENTERED THE WORLD. GOD IS IN NO WAY, DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY THA CAUSE OF MORAL EVIL. HE PERMITS IT, HOWEVER, BECAUSE HE RESPECTS THE FREEDOM OF HIS CREATURES AND MYSTERIOUSLY KNOWS HOW TO DERIVE GOOD FROM IT.” Also ANGEL is the name of an OFFICE, not a being. Interesting…yeah, I’m not seeing anything covering the salvation of angels, but I think we know what happens to them when they get kicked out of heaven, lol. They become part of the management downstairs, LOL

 

[itinerant1]

Sweet thought, but exactly where did you get that thought?

My Guardian Angel revealed it to me. lol

Actually, there are a lot of extant writings about angels from the past two millenniums. If you want to learn some of the history and a philosophical presentation, as well, regarding angels, a good place to start is Mortimer J. Adler’s The Angels and Us. After you have absorbed what Adler has presented, then you can move on to the Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas, which has an excellent section on angels.

 

[itinerant1]

I’m not seeing anything covering the salvation of angels, but I think we know what happens to them when they get kicked out of heaven, lol. They become part of the management downstairs, LOL

The fallen angels were never in heaven, if by heaven is meant being in the presence of God, united with Him in the Beatific Vision. There is a special place in Purgatory for those who don’t get their theology of angels down correctly.

 

[Benadam]

What do you mean by the statement, “Angels possess the full revelation of God proper to them at the instant of their creation.”??

I should have worded it,’ at the instant of their creation angels possess, in as much as it is proper to their particular state, the full revelation of God. They aren’t creatures that exist in a state of ‘becoming’ like us. They have everything and know everything they need that pertains to them. They don’t have to learn or develop awareness like us.

This is what put the Pharisees in danger of committing eternal sin. Sin against the Holy Spirit. God couldn’t reveal Himself any more fully than they were recieving. They were, in Jesus, in possession of the full revelation of God in as much as it is possible for human life on earth.So, Jesus warned them. What more could God do if they still prefered their sin?

 

[Jason_1977]

The fallen angels were never in heaven, if by heaven is meant being in the presence of God, united with Him in the Beatific Vision. There is a special place in Purgatory for those who don’t get their theology of angels down correctly.

sweet, while I’m there I can hickory smoke some ribs & have a beer, lol. Still kinda grey on this whole salvation thing though. I mean, I’m not trying to be argumentative, here, I’m actually on your side & I DID see the catechism #311 discussing the free will of angels and mankind, but I think it’s kinda interesting to think, all God had to do was destroy Lucifer & that would’ve been that. He was instead cast out & kept in the proverbial basement so-to-speak, & I cant get over the notion that Lucifer wasn’t destroyed because God had PURPOSE for Lucifer. Kinda creepy when you think about it. You cant stay here, but I’ll keep you around for a bit, I have a job for you later…spooky.

 

[Jason_1977]

Wasn’t it St. Michael the Archangel that cast Lucifer out of heaven?

Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host -
by the Divine Power of God -
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits,
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen

 

[Benadam]

Wasn’t it St. Michael the Archangel that cast Lucifer out of heaven?

Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host -
by the Divine Power of God -
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits,
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen

His name means ’ who is like God?’ I can hear that as the rebuke that cast Satan out and at the same time more than just a phrase heard but a being defined.

 

[itinerant1]

I should have worded it,’ at the instant of their creation angels possess, in as much as it is proper to their particular state, the full revelation of God. They aren’t creatures that exist in a state of ‘becoming’ like us. They have everything and know everything they need that pertains to them. They don’t have to learn or develop awareness like us.

There is an ambiguity in the phrase “full revelation of God”. God did not fully reveal Himself, His essence, to the angels initially. A full revelation of God is to see God as He is. No rational being can see God and turn away from Him in sin… To see God is to love Him irresistibly.

The angels were created in a state that constituted a test of their love for God, much as this life is for us a test. When the book of Revelation speaks of the angels being cast out, it is not from the heaven where God is seen in His essence. Some people get confused by the different meanings of the word “heaven” in Scripture.

The angels are not pure act, to use a philosophical term. They are in potency for knowledge and willing. The angels learn from each other. The higher angels communicate knowledge to the lower angels.

In regard to the fallen angels, they were in full possession of knowledge needed for their state, as you agree. There was no ignorance or passion to mitigate their guilt, as there often is with us wounded by sin mortals. That is why we cannot understand the kind of decision they made, a decision made most freely and in full knowledge of the consequences. Lucifer decided if he could not himself be God, he would not love and serve God. That is something I cannot understand, but that’s the way it was.

 

[James_S_Saint]

Some people get confused by the different meanings of the word “heaven” in Scripture.

Not to mention the word “angel” as well.

The angels are not pure act, to use a philosophical term. They are in potency for knowledge and willing. The angels learn from each other. The higher angels communicate knowledge to the lower angels.

In regard to the fallen angels, they were in full possession of knowledge needed for their state, as you agree. There was no ignorance or passion to mitigate their guilt, as there often is with us wounded by sin mortals. That is why we cannot understand the kind of decision they made, a decision made most freely and in full knowledge of the consequences. Lucifer decided if he could not himself be God, he would not love and serve God. That is something I cannot understand, but that’s the way it was.

I have to take it that this entire discussion is about the Hollywood angels. It all seems very creative and pleasant, but seems to be totally lacking actual understanding of even what the word really means.

I have to assume such understanding is not a part of Catholic discipline.

 

[Jason_1977]

I dunno, city of angels implied that they had a job to do. I dont buy what hollywood pawns off on us, ONE particular movie that I thought was good until it got kinda obscure was a movie called GABRIEL. If you’ve seen it, you know what I mean. I was UPSET at the very THOUGHT of my patron saint succumbing to evil & even leading the dark forces against the light, etc. Michael becomes a powerful leader of the dark forces. It was a one on one showdown between Gabriel & Michael. I thought the idea was twisted and comic book-ish at best.

Very Respectfully,

Jason

Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host -
by the Divine Power of God -
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits,
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.

Amen