Why didn't some Jews accept Jesus?

[francd]

How many?

How many? Every doctor was casting out demons.

Really? how many? If I recall Paul’s frustration correctly, his main reason for turning to the gentiles was that his message was rejected by the Jews.

I would not say the main reason was, because that had been set apart to go to gentiles, it was a consequence of their rejection. Paul always went first to the Jews ans some accpted the preaching.
I do not recall ‘doctors’ in those times, doctors started to cure only 200 years ago.

 

[Valke2]

I would not say the main reason was, because that had been set apart to go to gentiles, it was a consequence of their rejection. Paul always went first to the Jews ans some accpted the preaching.
I do not recall ‘doctors’ in those times, doctors started to cure only 200 years ago.

I realized as I was typing that my use of “doctors” was incorrect. But I figured no one would call me on it.

However, many illnesses were believed to be caused by demons during the time of Jesus (and for a good time afterward). And there were other cases of demons being “cast out” from other healers.

Even during Rashi’s time, (1200 CE?) Jews didn’t go out at night on certain weekdays because it was believed demons came out at that time, and Rabbis were believed to have certain protections from falling ill from demons because of their studying of Torah.

 

[maryj]

He wasn’t a military leader. He didn’t win battles or go up against the enemies of the Jews. He didn’t oversee the return of all Jews to Israel.

Those are some of the things the Jews were looking for in a Messiah. That is why, if he had told the Jews he was the Messiah, many would have taken a “wait and see” attitude.

I know that there are explanations as to how Jesus did in fact fullfill these and other requirements. But those are christian explanations that are not accepted by us and were certainly not sufficient for (most) a 1st century Jew.

Is it possible to show me where these prophecies are referred to in scripture? once again thanks in advance.

 

[Kaninchen]

Is it possible to show me where these prophecies are referred to in scripture? once again thanks in advance.

You may care to try jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm

for a basic insight into the Jewish view of Messiah.

 

[Lev23]

He wasn’t a military leader. He didn’t win battles or go up against the enemies of the Jews. He didn’t oversee the return of all Jews to Israel.

Those are some of the things the Jews were looking for in a Messiah. That is why, if he had told the Jews he was the Messiah, many would have taken a “wait and see” attitude.

I know that there are explanations as to how Jesus did in fact fullfill these and other requirements. But those are christian explanations that are not accepted by us and were certainly not sufficient for (most) a 1st century Jew.

Valke, the Messiah came first as a lamb, and will come back as a lion. Remember what Abraham told Isaac? “God will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” God had to deal with mans sin before the Messiah sat on Davids throne in the kingdom to come. Those who believe in the gospel Messiah, that is Jesus of Nazerath, have the final sin sacrifice for atonement of their sins and will rule and reign with him in the kingdom.

Dont miss this for the world!

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Funny, I always thought that some Jews did accept Jesus.

I guess there were a lot of Jewish people in ancient Judea, then, for after hearing St. Peter, 3,000 jumped into his “fishing” boat!



With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
(Acts 2:40-41)

 

[maryj]

You may care to try jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm

for a basic insight into the Jewish view of Messiah.

So basically Jews do not believe in the Christian idea of a Messiah “the Savior”, they believe in the Moshiach “the annointed” and for “Modern Jewish Scholars” the Messianic idea was not mentioned in the Torah (first five books of the old testament, which by the way I have read all of! yeah me) but nor was the Moshiach mentioned. My first thought is the purpose of those books then?? but any hoo… So I still didn’t find deffined where it says that the Moshiach will be a great military leader? I see Jeremiah 33:15 used for quite a few different examples such as 1) he will be a great judge,who makes righteous decisions.
2) He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land.
I personnally don’t see both of those things in that one short passage but I do see Jewish laws being fulfilled at the catholic Mass. That’s another thread all together!! And for Olam Ha-Ba that sounds like heaven to me. Just as God promised. So that military leader thing. Got any ideas?? Peace

 

[maryj]

This may not be at all relavent to this discussion but here goes, If the Jewish people believe in only One God, one God only, How does the Jewish people reconcile that with Genesis 1:26 ?? sorry don’t mean to throw this thread off track.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

So basically Jews do not believe in the Christian idea of a Messiah “the Savior”, they believe in the Moshiach “the annointed” and for “Modern Jewish Scholars” the Messianic idea was not mentioned in the Torah (first five books of the old testament, which by the way I have read all of! yeah me) but nor was the Moshiach mentioned. My first thought is the purpose of those books then?? but any hoo… So I still didn’t find deffined where it says that the Moshiach will be a great military leader? I see Jeremiah 33:15 used for quite a few different examples such as 1) he will be a great judge,who makes righteous decisions.
2) He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land.
I personnally don’t see both of those things in that one short passage but I do see Jewish laws being fulfilled at the catholic Mass. That’s another thread all together!! And for Olam Ha-Ba that sounds like heaven to me. Just as God promised. So that military leader thing. Got any ideas?? Peace

MJ:

Well, Jesus said to His enemies:

“But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”
(John 5:45-47)

That is, He said Moses wrote about Him. The question is, where? Check out Deuteronomy 18.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

This may not be at all relavent to this discussion but here goes, If the Jewish people believe in only One God, one God only, How does the Jewish people reconcile that with Genesis 1:26 ?? sorry don’t mean to throw this thread off track.

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
(Genesis 1:26)

Good question, that! There are other passages in the Old Testament that point to Jesus as well. On thing to keep in mind is that Christians believe in one God and only one God; we just understand God to be one God in three persons (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit). It’s like thinking of God as one what in three whos.

 

[maryj]

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

(Genesis 1:26)
Good question, that! There are other passages in the Old Testament that point to Jesus as well. On thing to keep in mind is that Christians believe in one God and only one God; we just understand God to be one God in three persons (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit). It’s like thinking of God as one what in three whos.

I know and believe in the trinity. My point is it says: let US make man in OUR image. that doesn’t sound singular to me.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I know and believe in the trinity. My point is it says: let US make man in OUR image. that doesn’t sound singular to me.

Yes, i agree. So, you are asking why the Jewish rabbis did not see this about Genesis, chapter 1?

 

[Cari]

I know and believe in the trinity. My point is it says: let US make man in OUR image. that doesn’t sound singular to me.

I believe, and I may be wrong, Jewish theology holds that God is speaking in the “royal we”.

C

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I believe, and I may be wrong, Jewish theology holds that God is speaking in the “royal we”.

C

Right, like a plurality of majesty. However, i think this is a way of explaining away the passage rather than understanding it. What do you think, Cari?

 

[Cari]

Right, like a plurality of majesty. However, i think this is a way of explaining away the passage rather than understanding it. What do you think, Cari?

Well, as someone who, for years, believed the garbarge that people like Erich von Daniken spewed forth about the plural pronoun being “proof” of humanity’s creation by space aliens (yes, I had a troubled and misspent youth sigh), I can tell you that people will go out of their way to find zebras where there are only horses.

I don’t think that God would refer to Himself in the “royal we” sporadically. If He were a God who referred to Himself in that manner (or, as in von Daniken’s theories, space aliens ), He would have referred to Himself in that manner consistantly, which He clearly doesn’t.

So personally, I think that it’s an early “hint” of the Trinity.

C

 

[Valke2]

So that military leader thing. Got any ideas?? Peace

-“And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” (Isaiah 11:12)

11:4 clearly shows that evil and tyranny will fall when they face the Messiah. He will “smite the tyrant” (in Jesus’ time, this would have been Rome).

I think from these two verses, we conclude that among other things, he will be a military leader.

 

[Valke2]

I know and believe in the trinity. My point is it says: let US make man in OUR image. that doesn’t sound singular to me.

It is the royal “we”, as when a king speaks to his court. If you look at the very next verse it is crystal clear that there is one God and He alone creates man. If verse 26 were meant to indicate a plurality, then verse 27 would have been written in the plural. It wasn’t. When Absalom asks Ahithopel to “Give us your counsel what shall we do?” do we assume that there was more than one Absalom???

The other reason given for the plural use in verse 26 is to show God’s humility in including his heavenly court in His thought process. He acts without assistance but he makes his intentions known to His servants.
“Shall I conceal from Abraham that which I am doing” (Genesis 18:17). Do we read this verse and assume God is talking to other gods? Or that this is the trinity engaged in conversation with itself?

YOu can find christian bibles with commentary that clearly states 1:26 is NOT a reference to the trnity. Including, I believe, NAB. I think its funny that one would criticze how Jews arrive at this conclusion and simply accept the “reasoning” behind how one arrives at trinity! YOu have a problem with the “royal we” rationale but you have no problem with rationalizing how the Jewish bible shows the trinity???
I really am LOL.

 

[maryj]

It is the royal “we”, as when a king speaks to his court. If you look at the very next verse it is crystal clear that there is one God and He alone creates man. If verse 26 were meant to indicate a plurality, then verse 27 would have been written in the plural. It wasn’t. When Absalom asks Ahithopel to “Give us your counsel what shall we do?” do we assume that there was more than one Absalom???

The other reason given for the plural use in verse 26 is to show God’s humility in including his heavenly court in His thought process. He acts without assistance but he makes his intentions known to His servants.
“Shall I conceal from Abraham that which I am doing” (Genesis 18:17). Do we read this verse and assume God is talking to other gods? Or that this is the trinity engaged in conversation with itself?

YOu can find christian bibles with commentary that clearly states 1:26 is NOT a reference to the trnity. Including, I believe, NAB. I think its funny that one would criticze how Jews arrive at this conclusion and simply accept the “reasoning” behind how one arrives at trinity! YOu have a problem with the “royal we” rationale but you have no problem with rationalizing how the Jewish bible shows the trinity???
I really am LOL.

Valke2, since you used my post to respond, I feel compelled to reply to yours. I am in no way criticizing how Jews arrive at any conclusion. I have no problem with the “royal we”, in fact I have never heard such an explanationa and am not really sure what it means. I am just trying to understand the Jewish point of view on why some didn’t accept Jesus. What better way than to ask a Jewish person. I apologize if I have insulted you, I have chosen my words very carefully as to avoid this very situation. Peace.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Valke2, since you used my post to respond, I feel compelled to reply to yours. I am in no way criticizing how Jews arrive at any conclusion. I have no problem with the “royal we”, in fact I have never heard such an explanationa and am not really sure what it means. I am just trying to understand the Jewish point of view on why some didn’t accept Jesus. What better way than to ask a Jewish person. I apologize if I have insulted you, I have chosen my words very carefully as to avoid this very situation. Peace.

MJ:

One reason they did not accept Jesus, as i understand the writings of the ancient Jewish rabbis, is that many were looking for two messiahs (one who would be a military leader who would defeat their enemies but die, and one who would be made king after the death of the military leader and rule a world empire from Jerusalem). This might be one reason why John the Baptist, when he was in prison, sent his disciples to Jesus to ask, “Are you the one, or should we expect another?”

I believe it was not a lack of faith on John the Baptist’s part, but a lack of understanding. He, like other Jewish people of his time, did not understand how the messiah who would die would also be the messiah who would rule the earth. (Of course, we know how the two messiahs were actually one messiah (or Christ) because Jesus rose from the dead and will reign here on earth when He returns.)

If you want evidence from the writings of ancient Jewish rabbis regarding the fact that they had the misconception that the Torah (or Old Testament) teaches that there would be two messiahs, let me know and i’ll look up the quotes for you.

 

[Kaninchen]

If you want evidence from the writings of ancient Jewish rabbis regarding the fact that they had the misconception that the Torah (or Old Testament) teaches that there would be two messiahs, let me know and i’ll look up the quotes for you.

Actually, Messiah is a term used for any person for whom God has a special purpose - eg Cyrus.

Tanakh is the equivalent of the ‘Old Testament’ - though organized entirely differently. Torah is ‘Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy’.