Why didn't some Jews accept Jesus?

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Valke2 said:
But if you want more reasons…

The word ‘anointed’ (a/k/a messiah) is used about 30 times int he Torah and almost always refers to a King. And a King is almost always a warrior.

If you want to read an article on the subject…

livius.org/men-mh/messiah/messiah_07.html#Military_leader
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Ah…Almost always! then there must be times when it doesn’t mean “warrior” in the military sense. Correct? I see this term used a lot in the mentioned article, seems to be some “unsure” language used within it.Always suspected, nearly always, it is possible that, More or less, and my favorite…too short and damaged to give a convincing interpretation BUT it is clear. I know I’m not a scholar but that type of language is not very clear or convincing to me. Too many variables. I’ll read it again. Peace.
 
Le_Cracquere said:
Harking back to the translated “us” in Genesis, I seem to recall that the Hebrew word Elohim is grammatically plural, bearing the collective plural ending found in “Hasidim,” “Sephardim,” “goyim,” etc.

Like modern Spanish, French, & Italian, Hebrew has two grammatical genders–masculine and feminine. Just as a Spanish-speaker would call a table (una mesa) “she”, so a Hebrew speaker’s choice of pronoun would refer to the referent’s grammatical properties, not its actual sex–or number. Could the OT “us” be referring to the conceptually singular, but grammatically plural word Elohim?

N.B.: Before anyone calls this a reach, there’s abundant precedent in several languages for a plural noun that denotes a singular object–“pants,” anybody?
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Oh Kinda like the Petra/ Cephas debate. one being feminine the other being masculine…but that’s a whole nother debate isn’t it!! sorry for going off topic again, can’t seem to help myself:banghead:
 
maryj said:
Ah…Almost always! then there must be times when it doesn’t mean “warrior” in the military sense. Correct? I see this term used a lot in the mentioned article, seems to be some “unsure” language used within it.Always suspected, nearly always, it is possible that, More or less, and my favorite…too short and damaged to give a convincing interpretation BUT it is clear. I know I’m not a scholar but that type of language is not very clear or convincing to me. Too many variables. I’ll read it again. Peace.
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Psalm 2

Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against the Lord and against His anointed one. ‘Let us break the chains,’ they say, ‘and throw off the fetters.’ The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them. Then He shall rebuke them in anger and terrifies them in his wrath, saying, ‘I have installed My king on Zion, my holy hill.’
I will proclaim the decree of the Lord: He said to me, ‘You are My son, today I have become your father. Ask of Me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession. You will rule them with an iron scepter; you shall dash them to pieces like pottery.’

In other word’s … Military Leader.
 
know that the Lord saves his anointed; He answers him from His holy heaven with the saving power of His right hand. Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the Lord our God. They [the enemies in chariots and on horses] are brought to their knees and fall, but we rise up and stand firm. O Lord, save the king! Answer us when we call!
[Psalm 20.6-9]
 
**Ask of Me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession. You will rule them with an iron scepter; you shall dash them to pieces like pottery.’ **

🙂 Sounds very intolerant to me.
So God is going to violently force all the people of the world
to submit to a non-Divine Jewish King?

No offense intended. It’s just that we Christians apply that verse to the social reign of Christ the King, and people call it intolerant that we believe that the whole world should submit to the moral Law of a Jewish King whom we believe to be God Almighty, not a mere warrior-man.

God bless. 🙂
 
God tolerates some things and doesn’t tolerate others. With God on his side the Messiah cannot fail.
 
Valke2 said:
Psalm 2

Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against the Lord and against His anointed one. ‘Let us break the chains,’ they say, ‘and throw off the fetters.’ The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them. Then He shall rebuke them in anger and terrifies them in his wrath, saying, ‘I have installed My king on Zion, my holy hill.’
I will proclaim the decree of the Lord: He said to me, ‘You are My son, today I have become your father. Ask of Me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession. You will rule them with an iron scepter; you shall dash them to pieces like pottery.’

In other word’s … Military Leader.
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Ever been to the stations of the cross? or heard of them? We recite this psalm during the stations during lent. Lent is a time of repentence, it is a time of change, a time of changing. I have had my sinfull self “dashed to pieces like pottery” only to be put back togethar as a different being. One who does not know of true repentence (confession and a changing of their sinful ways) could not possibly know what this means, or understand it, so I guess here we are at a standstill. I shall be ruled by an iron sceptor, of my most merciful Savior, who fashioned me from broken pieces. In other words the Savior, the Messiah, The one who has anointed me to be a soldier in His army of Christians. Peace
 
maryj said:
Ever been to the stations of the cross? or heard of them? We recite this psalm during the stations during lent. Lent is a time of repentence, it is a time of change, a time of changing. I have had my sinfull self “dashed to pieces like pottery” only to be put back togethar as a different being. One who does not know of true repentence (confession and a changing of their sinful ways) could not possibly know what this means, or understand it, so I guess here we are at a standstill. I shall be ruled by an iron sceptor, of my most merciful Savior, who fashioned me from broken pieces. In other words the Savior, the Messiah, The one who has anointed me to be a soldier in His army of Christians. Peace
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What makes you think I don’t know true repentance?
 
Valke2 said:
What makes you think I don’t know true repentance?
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That’s what you picked out of that post!!?? So what is true repentence to you? I’m fairly certain we have differing opinions on the meaning. apologies if I insulted you, that again was not my intent. And I should have worded that differently, I wasn’t particularily referrring to you. I’ve got to learn to proof read before I hit submit.
 
maryj said:
That’s what you picked out of that post!!?? So what is true repentence to you? I’m fairly certain we have differing opinions on the meaning. apologies if I insulted you, that again was not my intent. And I should have worded that differently, I wasn’t particularily referrring to you. I’ve got to learn to proof read before I hit submit.
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np.
Repetence is done (In Judaism) through Teshuva:
Recoginzing that you sinned.
Being truly sorry for the sin.
If it is a sin against another person, asking for forgivness from that person, and making restitution.
Resolving not to do it again.
And when the situation presents itself, behaving differently.
 
Valke2 said:
np.
Repetence is done (In Judaism) through Teshuva:
Recoginzing that you sinned.
Being truly sorry for the sin.
If it is a sin against another person, asking for forgivness from that person, and making restitution.
Resolving not to do it again.
And when the situation presents itself, behaving differently.
Click to expand...
Your answer to Mary is ok but this is only what the rules say.
From a Catholic point of view
Being truly sorry goes a bit more deep it means to be sorry in the heart to have offended the Lord in that person, He who loves you so much, that your resolution is not only towards the sin to that person, to whom you will express deep sorrow and ask for forgiveness and make a suitable reparation, but to the sin in itself. And you do not do it anymore. Yours is a dialogue witht he Lord who is telling you your sin is forgiven ‘go and do not sin anymore!’ 🙂
If you are truly sorry,from the depth of your heart, and you belive in His Love than you do not do it anymore.
Here comes in ‘grace’ this being truly sorry brings to yuo the grace and strenght and commitment to stick to your resolution,
this is the reason why catolic go to confession.
God bless you
 
francd said:
Your answer to Mary is ok but this is only what the rules say.
From a Catholic point of view
Being truly sorry goes a bit more deep it means to be sorry in the heart to have offended the Lord in that person, He who loves you so much, that your resolution is not only towards the sin to that person, to whom you will express deep sorrow and ask for forgiveness and make a suitable reparation, but to the sin in itself. And you do not do it anymore. Yours is a dialogue witht he Lord who is telling you your sin is forgiven ‘go and do not sin anymore!’ 🙂
If you are truly sorry,from the depth of your heart, and you belive in His Love than you do not do it anymore.
Here comes in ‘grace’ this being truly sorry brings to yuo the grace and strenght and commitment to stick to your resolution,
this is the reason why catolic go to confession.
God bless you
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Same result. I’m not sure why you think this is somehow a deeper commitment than what I expressed.
 
Valke2 said:
np.
Repetence is done (In Judaism) through Teshuva:
Recoginzing that you sinned.
Being truly sorry for the sin.
If it is a sin against another person, asking for forgivness from that person, and making restitution.
Resolving not to do it again.
And when the situation presents itself, behaving differently.
Click to expand...
To me, this looks almost identical to the Christian view of repentance, except for:

If the sin was against a child of God (human) then one must ask forgiveness from both the person and God.

If the sin was against God only, then one must ask forgiveness from God.
 
This may or may not be an off-topic post.

From a rank amateur perspective, I just noticed that a couple of psalms use the following term:

Psalm 86:16 “Child of your handmaid”
Psalm 116:16 “child of your maidservant”

Of course as a Catholic when I hear the word handmaid or equivalent I think of Mary’s canticle in Luke 1.

If Psalm 86 is about David, why would David refer to himself as Child of your Handmaid?

Who is the maidservant in Psalm 116?
 
ricmat said:
To me, this looks almost identical to the Christian view of repentance, except for:

If the sin was against a child of God (human) then one must ask forgiveness from both the person and God.

If the sin was against God only, then one must ask forgiveness from God.
Click to expand...
Same in Judaism. If I said different, it was a mistake.
 
Valke2 said:
Same result. I’m not sure why you think this is somehow a deeper commitment than what I expressed.
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I like very much your exchange of feelings and questions. If I may I would like to send you this thoughts of mine.

Thsi is an answer to you and to Maryj “So how do you ask forgivness from God?”

The result of forgivness is the sameas you say, and in one sense it is true.
The depth comes form how you perceive God, how you see and feel him. If He is outside, a freind, a close freind, or if He is inside the fountain of your existence, the giver of life, of all the gifts you have, the one who is leading you to eternal-life. Your vision of God determins how you relate, hence how you ask forgivness to God.
God , the ‘All in all’ is not an external entitiy who police creation, is a living and ever renewing source inside, you come to discover this through prayer, meditation on the Bible an Contemplation. It is Him who makes you realise the wrong you have done, or thought, or your wrong attitude, or your distorted conception or vision.
In the bottom line it is always something hurting Him and hurting you, also if in apparence could be seen as an offence to another person. As He is in all of us and in all creation any wrong doing, to persons, animals, environment, thought, action, in final analysis is a wrong doing towards Him.
Now the difference in depth consist exactly in this , if you treated the matter only as a sin aginst another person, or if you realise that you are damaging your relationship with Him, who is the only Goodness and the only true treasure you can have in your life.
So the asking of forgivness can be an exterior act, as you do witht the person you have offended or an interior act in the development of your relationship with Him.
In this second case is very difficult that you are going to commit the same mistake or sin, because the repentance, or need of forgivness, is something that has grown from the deapth of your heart and in relating with Him, (and he knows it before we feel it, that is why we are forgiven as we acknowledge it) not just a realisation that you have done something not acceptable according to the law.
Your perception of the person you have offended will start to change, you will discover how the love of God is in her or him as He is in you. You start to see how that mistake you have done was permitted by the ‘Oneness’ who is in you so that you are able to take a further step in His direction. Our mistakes and our sufferings are an invitation to deepen our relationship with Him.
We realise this only after, at the moment of happening, we are so grossly involved with our doing, or suffering that we do not realize this; only a successive pondering give us enlightment till we realize that it is our relationship with Him that is the central focus of all that happnes.
I hope tha this open heart pondering could be of assistance for you, it has helped me to clarify my own vision.
God bless
 
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