Why didn't tradition preserve Jesus' real birthday?

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No, I don’t think knowing his actual birthday makes any difference. It was just a question that entered my mind. I was thinking about all the other things that were preserved. It’s interesting that we know certain things i.e. names of Mary’s parents, but not others. I was just curious if anyone had ever asked thier priests or pastors this question and what answers (if any) you were given.

Sigh…I need to stop my brain from wondering things that may never be known.

Peace, and a Merry Christmas to you all.
 
No, I don’t think knowing his actual birthday makes any difference. It was just a question that entered my mind. I was thinking about all the other things that were preserved. It’s interesting that we know certain things i.e. names of Mary’s parents, but not others. I was just curious if anyone had ever asked thier priests or pastors this question and what answers (if any) you were given.

Sigh…I need to stop my brain from wondering things that may never be known.

Peace, and a Merry Christmas to you all.
One thing we may assume is that not all the writings of the time were preserved (they may not have been considered important or relevant). So some of the historical ( but not important otherwise to the faith) may have been lost or discarded.

Jon
 
I am just wondering … many historians say that Jesus could not have been born on December 25th if Shepards were in thier fields and based on the historical timing of the census. How come tradition didn’t preserve the actual day? I know many early church fathers proposed dates all over the calendar.

Anyone with more historical knowledge than me know the answer to this one?
Do you mean because it is claimed that Jesus might not have been born on December 25th because it would been too cold for shepards in the fields? There seems to be evidence against that claim.

MYTH: Too cold for shepherds to Tend Flocks in December
What is the average temperature around Bethlehem in December?
Remember, Bethlehem is a few miles south of Jerusalem at about 2,500 feet which is the same as Jerusalem. The flocks would have been tended more in the valley than at the top of the mount, so the temperatures faced by the shepherds would have been warmer than either recorded in Jerusalem or those that Jacob experienced.
With very little effort this information is easily available. The Weather Channel website provides the recorded average low temperature by month for many locations, including Jerusalem. In fact it will compare the average lows per month between two locations. Doing a little research with this tool gives an interesting comparison between Lake City, Florida and Jerusalem, Israel (Click here and then select Avg Low option).
As you will see from either using the link or from the image at the right, the December temperature in Jerusalem is two degrees cooler than Lake City Florida; 42 vs. 44 degress. The same is true for Jacksonville, Florida. However the average low temperature for Valdosta, Georgia and Albany, Georgia are a degree or two cooler than Jerusalem. So the average December low temperature in Jerusalem (at the top of the mount) is the equilvalent of extreme south Georgia or extreme north Florida. Not exactly Arctic conditions so to speak.
And that is at the top of the mount in Jerusalem and the valleys where the sheep would be tended would be warmer. So the average December temperatures that the shepherds would have faced would be warmer than Lake City, Florida.
Anyone who has ever been around Lake City, Florida can tell you. December winters in the area are rather mild, while there may be a few nights with a freeze or frost, they are NOT severe. Certainly the hardy people of the Biblical times would have been capable of facing this rather mild climate! Jacob certainly was.
So the statement that it is too cold in December for the shepherds to be tending their flocks is incorrect!
Most of the people who make the claim that it is too cold for shepherds to be in the fields with their flocks have never tended sheep (or goats). Some information on sheep herding and care for sheep will verify that once again that this is a false claim.
 
I am just wondering … many historians say that Jesus could not have been born on December 25th if Shepards were in thier fields and based on the historical timing of the census. How come tradition didn’t preserve the actual day? I know many early church fathers proposed dates all over the calendar.

Anyone with more historical knowledge than me know the answer to this one?
]
Do you mean it is claimed that Jesus might not have been born on December 25th because it would been too cold for shepards in the fields? There seems to be evidence against that claim.

MYTH: Too cold for shepherds to Tend Flocks in December
What is the average temperature around Bethlehem in December?
Remember, Bethlehem is a few miles south of Jerusalem at about 2,500 feet which is the same as Jerusalem. The flocks would have been tended more in the valley than at the top of the mount, so the temperatures faced by the shepherds would have been warmer than either recorded in Jerusalem or those that Jacob experienced.
With very little effort this information is easily available. The Weather Channel website provides the recorded average low temperature by month for many locations, including Jerusalem. In fact it will compare the average lows per month between two locations. Doing a little research with this tool gives an interesting comparison between Lake City, Florida and Jerusalem, Israel (Click here and then select Avg Low option).
As you will see from either using the link or from the image at the right, the December temperature in Jerusalem is two degrees cooler than Lake City Florida; 42 vs. 44 degress. The same is true for Jacksonville, Florida. However the average low temperature for Valdosta, Georgia and Albany, Georgia are a degree or two cooler than Jerusalem. So the average December low temperature in Jerusalem (at the top of the mount) is the equilvalent of extreme south Georgia or extreme north Florida. Not exactly Arctic conditions so to speak.
And that is at the top of the mount in Jerusalem and the valleys where the sheep would be tended would be warmer. So the average December temperatures that the shepherds would have faced would be warmer than Lake City, Florida.
Anyone who has ever been around Lake City, Florida can tell you. December winters in the area are rather mild, while there may be a few nights with a freeze or frost, they are NOT severe. Certainly the hardy people of the Biblical times would have been capable of facing this rather mild climate! Jacob certainly was.
So the statement that it is too cold in December for the shepherds to be tending their flocks is incorrect!
Most of the people who make the claim that it is too cold for shepherds to be in the fields with their flocks have never tended sheep (or goats). Some information on sheep herding and care for sheep will verify that once again that this is a false claim.
:eek:
 
I am just wondering … many historians say that Jesus could not have been born on December 25th if Shepards were in thier fields and based on the historical timing of the census. How come tradition didn’t preserve the actual day? I know many early church fathers proposed dates all over the calendar.

Anyone with more historical knowledge than me know the answer to this one?
Do you mean it is claimed that Jesus might not have been born on December 25th because it would been too cold for shepards in the fields? There seems to be evidence against that claim.

MYTH: Too cold for shepherds to Tend Flocks in December
What is the average temperature around Bethlehem in December?
Remember, Bethlehem is a few miles south of Jerusalem at about 2,500 feet which is the same as Jerusalem. The flocks would have been tended more in the valley than at the top of the mount, so the temperatures faced by the shepherds would have been warmer than either recorded in Jerusalem or those that Jacob experienced.
With very little effort this information is easily available. The Weather Channel website provides the recorded average low temperature by month for many locations, including Jerusalem. In fact it will compare the average lows per month between two locations. Doing a little research with this tool gives an interesting comparison between Lake City, Florida and Jerusalem, Israel (Click here and then select Avg Low option).
As you will see from either using the link or from the image at the right, the December temperature in Jerusalem is two degrees cooler than Lake City Florida; 42 vs. 44 degress. The same is true for Jacksonville, Florida. However the average low temperature for Valdosta, Georgia and Albany, Georgia are a degree or two cooler than Jerusalem. So the average December low temperature in Jerusalem (at the top of the mount) is the equilvalent of extreme south Georgia or extreme north Florida. Not exactly Arctic conditions so to speak.
And that is at the top of the mount in Jerusalem and the valleys where the sheep would be tended would be warmer. So the average December temperatures that the shepherds would have faced would be warmer than Lake City, Florida.
Anyone who has ever been around Lake City, Florida can tell you. December winters in the area are rather mild, while there may be a few nights with a freeze or frost, they are NOT severe. Certainly the hardy people of the Biblical times would have been capable of facing this rather mild climate! Jacob certainly was.
So the statement that it is too cold in December for the shepherds to be tending their flocks is incorrect!
Most of the people who make the claim that it is too cold for shepherds to be in the fields with their flocks have never tended sheep (or goats). Some information on sheep herding and care for sheep will verify that once again that this is a false claim.
👍
 
I am just wondering … many historians say that Jesus could not have been born on December 25th if Shepards were in thier fields and based on the historical timing of the census. How come tradition didn’t preserve the actual day? I know many early church fathers proposed dates all over the calendar.

Anyone with more historical knowledge than me know the answer to this one?
Do you mean it is claimed that Jesus might not have been born on December 25th because it would been too cold for shepards in the fields? There seems to be evidence against that claim.

MYTH: Too cold for shepherds to Tend Flocks in December
What is the average temperature around Bethlehem in December?
Remember, Bethlehem is a few miles south of Jerusalem at about 2,500 feet which is the same as Jerusalem. The flocks would have been tended more in the valley than at the top of the mount, so the temperatures faced by the shepherds would have been warmer than either recorded in Jerusalem or those that Jacob experienced.
With very little effort this information is easily available. The Weather Channel website provides the recorded average low temperature by month for many locations, including Jerusalem. In fact it will compare the average lows per month between two locations. Doing a little research with this tool gives an interesting comparison between Lake City, Florida and Jerusalem, Israel (Click here and then select Avg Low option).
As you will see from either using the link or from the image at the right, the December temperature in Jerusalem is two degrees cooler than Lake City Florida; 42 vs. 44 degress. The same is true for Jacksonville, Florida. However the average low temperature for Valdosta, Georgia and Albany, Georgia are a degree or two cooler than Jerusalem. So the average December low temperature in Jerusalem (at the top of the mount) is the equilvalent of extreme south Georgia or extreme north Florida. Not exactly Arctic conditions so to speak.
And that is at the top of the mount in Jerusalem and the valleys where the sheep would be tended would be warmer. So the average December temperatures that the shepherds would have faced would be warmer than Lake City, Florida.
Anyone who has ever been around Lake City, Florida can tell you. December winters in the area are rather mild, while there may be a few nights with a freeze or frost, they are NOT severe. Certainly the hardy people of the Biblical times would have been capable of facing this rather mild climate! Jacob certainly was.
So the statement that it is too cold in December for the shepherds to be tending their flocks is incorrect!
Most of the people who make the claim that it is too cold for shepherds to be in the fields with their flocks have never tended sheep (or goats). Some information on sheep herding and care for sheep will verify that once again that this is a false claim.
Hope imge is fair use
 
I am just wondering … many historians say that Jesus could not have been born on December 25th if Shepards were in thier fields and based on the historical timing of the census. How come tradition didn’t preserve the actual day? I know many early church fathers proposed dates all over the calendar.

Anyone with more historical knowledge than me know the answer to this one?
Do you mean it is claimed that Jesus might not have been born on December 25th because it would been too cold for shepards in the fields? There seems to be evidence against that claim.

MYTH: Too cold for shepherds to Tend Flocks in December
What is the average temperature around Bethlehem in December?
Remember, Bethlehem is a few miles south of Jerusalem at about 2,500 feet which is the same as Jerusalem. The flocks would have been tended more in the valley than at the top of the mount, so the temperatures faced by the shepherds would have been warmer than either recorded in Jerusalem or those that Jacob experienced.
With very little effort this information is easily available. The Weather Channel website provides the recorded average low temperature by month for many locations, including Jerusalem. In fact it will compare the average lows per month between two locations. Doing a little research with this tool gives an interesting comparison between Lake City, Florida and Jerusalem, Israel (Click here and then select Avg Low option).
As you will see from either using the link or from the image at the right, the December temperature in Jerusalem is two degrees cooler than Lake City Florida; 42 vs. 44 degress. The same is true for Jacksonville, Florida. However the average low temperature for Valdosta, Georgia and Albany, Georgia are a degree or two cooler than Jerusalem. So the average December low temperature in Jerusalem (at the top of the mount) is the equilvalent of extreme south Georgia or extreme north Florida. Not exactly Arctic conditions so to speak.
And that is at the top of the mount in Jerusalem and the valleys where the sheep would be tended would be warmer. So the average December temperatures that the shepherds would have faced would be warmer than Lake City, Florida.
Anyone who has ever been around Lake City, Florida can tell you. December winters in the area are rather mild, while there may be a few nights with a freeze or frost, they are NOT severe. Certainly the hardy people of the Biblical times would have been capable of facing this rather mild climate! Jacob certainly was.
So the statement that it is too cold in December for the shepherds to be tending their flocks is incorrect!
Most of the people who make the claim that it is too cold for shepherds to be in the fields with their flocks have never tended sheep (or goats). Some information on sheep herding and care for sheep will verify that once again that this is a false claim.
:eek:
 
I am just wondering … many historians say that Jesus could not have been born on December 25th if Shepards were in thier fields and based on the historical timing of the census. How come tradition didn’t preserve the actual day? I know many early church fathers proposed dates all over the calendar.

Anyone with more historical knowledge than me know the answer to this one?
Do you mean it is claimed that Jesus might not have been born on December 25th because it would been too cold for shepards in the fields? There seems to be evidence against that claim.

MYTH: Too cold for shepherds to Tend Flocks in December
What is the average temperature around Bethlehem in December?
Remember, Bethlehem is a few miles south of Jerusalem at about 2,500 feet which is the same as Jerusalem. The flocks would have been tended more in the valley than at the top of the mount, so the temperatures faced by the shepherds would have been warmer than either recorded in Jerusalem or those that Jacob experienced.
With very little effort this information is easily available. The Weather Channel website provides the recorded average low temperature by month for many locations, including Jerusalem. In fact it will compare the average lows per month between two locations. Doing a little research with this tool gives an interesting comparison between Lake City, Florida and Jerusalem, Israel (Click here and then select Avg Low option).
As you will see from either using the link or from the image at the right, the December temperature in Jerusalem is two degrees cooler than Lake City Florida; 42 vs. 44 degress. The same is true for Jacksonville, Florida. However the average low temperature for Valdosta, Georgia and Albany, Georgia are a degree or two cooler than Jerusalem. So the average December low temperature in Jerusalem (at the top of the mount) is the equilvalent of extreme south Georgia or extreme north Florida. Not exactly Arctic conditions so to speak.
And that is at the top of the mount in Jerusalem and the valleys where the sheep would be tended would be warmer. So the average December temperatures that the shepherds would have faced would be warmer than Lake City, Florida.
Anyone who has ever been around Lake City, Florida can tell you. December winters in the area are rather mild, while there may be a few nights with a freeze or frost, they are NOT severe. Certainly the hardy people of the Biblical times would have been capable of facing this rather mild climate! Jacob certainly was.
So the statement that it is too cold in December for the shepherds to be tending their flocks is incorrect!
Most of the people who make the claim that it is too cold for shepherds to be in the fields with their flocks have never tended sheep (or goats). Some information on sheep herding and care for sheep will verify that once again that this is a false claim.
:cool:
 
No, I don’t think knowing his actual birthday makes any difference. It was just a question that entered my mind. I was thinking about all the other things that were preserved. It’s interesting that we know certain things i.e. names of Mary’s parents, but not others. I was just curious if anyone had ever asked thier priests or pastors this question and what answers (if any) you were given.

Sigh…I need to stop my brain from wondering things that may never be known.

Peace, and a Merry Christmas to you all.
Actually the question is a very good one. And there is an answer.

As someone else mentioned on the thread, the celebration of Christmas is part of the Liturgy or public worship of the Church. Special events important to the Church’s history are remembered or celebrated to teach and keep our spiritual heritage alive.

The date was chosen to contrast with the celebration of the great feast of Easter more than anything else. Easter in the northern hemisphere begins in the Spring when the days begin to grow long and life returns after winter’s sleep. Winter is dark and cold, the opposite of Spring, so much in need of light from lamps or the flames of candles. The logic behind using this as a form of catechesis seems only natural.

While it has been popular in the late 20th century to connect Christmas with the celebration of Saturnalia and other pagan winter celebrations, by the beginning of the 21st century it became clear that these connections were circumstantial. While not completely ruling out the likelihood of Christianizing certain pagan celebrations associated with the season, the time was chosen because it was seen appropriate to use the contrast with Easter’s spring with the winter for remembering the meaning behind Christ’s incarnation—the Light coming into the world of darkness.

The celebration of Christmas is not an anniversary or the celebration of a birthday. It is a special feast commemoration the Incarnation and not so much the actual date that Jesus was born. Thus the miracle that is the Incarnation is celebrated as as octave. It begins after sundown on the day before the 25th and ends on the sundown before the 1st of January. (Because the feast of the Epiphany traditionally occurs 4 days later, celebrations of Christmas would keep going for all these days, thus supplying us with the “Twelve” days of Christmas.)

Because of the secularization of Christmas, people tend to see Christmas as a one-day holiday. It is therefore easily confused as a “birthday” by some who criticize our observance of this feast. It is neither of these things.

“Secular Christmas,” as I call it, seems to begin the day after Thanksgiving, with people stopping the festivity on the 26th of December by tossing out their dead trees on the corner of the street for garbage pickup.

The real Christmas begins with Christmas Eve (the day when people used to put up the tree and begin their celebrating) and lasts through the traditional 12 days (when the celebrating would climax) and even further into the Church’s liturgy.

In my humble opinion, I believe most people, even Christians, have allowed Madison Avenue to dictate when and what Christmas is and should be. This is the cause of so much confusion about the date. Its true meaning which has been lost in advertisements that replace the lyrics of carols and hymns with details on their current sale prices–so happy to use the music of Christ but not so much to take to heart the words that go with it.
 
I am just wondering … many historians say that Jesus could not have been born on December 25th if Shepards were in thier fields and based on the historical timing of the census. How come tradition didn’t preserve the actual day? I know many early church fathers proposed dates all over the calendar.

Anyone with more historical knowledge than me know the answer to this one?
Do you mean it is claimed that Jesus might not have been born on December 25th because it would been too cold for shepards in the fields? There seems to be evidence against that claim.

MYTH: Too cold for shepherds to Tend Flocks in December
What is the average temperature around Bethlehem in December?
Remember, Bethlehem is a few miles south of Jerusalem at about 2,500 feet which is the same as Jerusalem. The flocks would have been tended more in the valley than at the top of the mount, so the temperatures faced by the shepherds would have been warmer than either recorded in Jerusalem or those that Jacob experienced.
With very little effort this information is easily available. The Weather Channel website provides the recorded average low temperature by month for many locations, including Jerusalem. In fact it will compare the average lows per month between two locations. Doing a little research with this tool gives an interesting comparison between Lake City, Florida and Jerusalem, Israel (Click here and then select Avg Low option).
As you will see from either using the link or from the image at the right, the December temperature in Jerusalem is two degrees cooler than Lake City Florida; 42 vs. 44 degress. The same is true for Jacksonville, Florida. However the average low temperature for Valdosta, Georgia and Albany, Georgia are a degree or two cooler than Jerusalem. So the average December low temperature in Jerusalem (at the top of the mount) is the equilvalent of extreme south Georgia or extreme north Florida. Not exactly Arctic conditions so to speak.
And that is at the top of the mount in Jerusalem and the valleys where the sheep would be tended would be warmer. So the average December temperatures that the shepherds would have faced would be warmer than Lake City, Florida.
Anyone who has ever been around Lake City, Florida can tell you. December winters in the area are rather mild, while there may be a few nights with a freeze or frost, they are NOT severe. Certainly the hardy people of the Biblical times would have been capable of facing this rather mild climate! Jacob certainly was.
So the statement that it is too cold in December for the shepherds to be tending their flocks is incorrect!
Most of the people who make the claim that it is too cold for shepherds to be in the fields with their flocks have never tended sheep (or goats). Some information on sheep herding and care for sheep will verify that once again that this is a false claim.
:o
 
I am just wondering … many historians say that Jesus could not have been born on December 25th if Shepards were in thier fields and based on the historical timing of the census. How come tradition didn’t preserve the actual day? I know many early church fathers proposed dates all over the calendar.

Anyone with more historical knowledge than me know the answer to this one?
Do you mean it is claimed that Jesus might not have been born on December 25th because it would been too cold for shepards in the fields? There seems to be evidence against claim that December would have been too cold throughout the month.

MYTH: Too cold for shepherds to Tend Flocks in December
What is the average temperature around Bethlehem in December?
Remember, Bethlehem is a few miles south of Jerusalem at about 2,500 feet which is the same as Jerusalem. The flocks would have been tended more in the valley than at the top of the mount, so the temperatures faced by the shepherds would have been warmer than either recorded in Jerusalem or those that Jacob experienced.
With very little effort this information is easily available. The Weather Channel website provides the recorded average low temperature by month for many locations, including Jerusalem. In fact it will compare the average lows per month between two locations. Doing a little research with this tool gives an interesting comparison between Lake City, Florida and Jerusalem, Israel (Click here and then select Avg Low option).
As you will see from either using the link or from the image at the right, the December temperature in Jerusalem is two degrees cooler than Lake City Florida; 42 vs. 44 degress. The same is true for Jacksonville, Florida. However the average low temperature for Valdosta, Georgia and Albany, Georgia are a degree or two cooler than Jerusalem. So the average December low temperature in Jerusalem (at the top of the mount) is the equilvalent of extreme south Georgia or extreme north Florida. Not exactly Arctic conditions so to speak.
And that is at the top of the mount in Jerusalem and the valleys where the sheep would be tended would be warmer. So the average December temperatures that the shepherds would have faced would be warmer than Lake City, Florida.
Anyone who has ever been around Lake City, Florida can tell you. December winters in the area are rather mild, while there may be a few nights with a freeze or frost, they are NOT severe. Certainly the hardy people of the Biblical times would have been capable of facing this rather mild climate! Jacob certainly was.
So the statement that it is too cold in December for the shepherds to be tending their flocks is incorrect!
Most of the people who make the claim that it is too cold for shepherds to be in the fields with their flocks have never tended sheep (or goats). Some information on sheep herding and care for sheep will verify that once again that this is a false claim.
Hope image is fair use
 
I am just wondering … many historians say that Jesus could not have been born on December 25th if Shepards were in thier fields and based on the historical timing of the census. How come tradition didn’t preserve the actual day? I know many early church fathers proposed dates all over the calendar.

Anyone with more historical knowledge than me know the answer to this one?
Because they simply could not find his birth certificate to confirm it. 😃
 
If we are speaking of tradition, it’s important to point out that even the Orthodox churches dont put the Nativity as December 25th.
 
What we do know is that He was born during or just after the Census called by Caesar, which is why both Joseph and Mary had to travel to Bethlehem even though she was close to delivery time. So even Caesar had to obey God, without knowing it, since His Messiah was to come from Bethlehem, not Nazareth (at least for His birth).

What is also important to all of us is that He WAS born, lived and died for US. I’m happy with a winter celebration, snow, ice and all! I’m just happy to celebrate the great and wonderful day when He made His appearance in our world as the poor peasant son of two poor peasants of the House of David.
 
If we are speaking of tradition, it’s important to point out that even the Orthodox churches dont put the Nativity as December 25th.
They do, just that some of them use a different calendar, the Julian calendar and so, their Dec 25 falls on our Jan 7.

Having said that, as far as I know, the Armenians celebrate the Nativity on Epiphany day, which is an older feastday than Christmas.
 
In my humble opinion, I believe most people, even Christians, have allowed Madison Avenue to dictate when and what Christmas is and should be. This is the cause of so much confusion about the date. Its true meaning which has been lost in advertisements that replace the lyrics of carols and hymns with details on their current sale prices–so happy to use the music of Christ but not so much to take to heart the words that go with it.
That is because the pagans have reclaimed Christmas.😉

Excellent explanation, DelsonJacobs, more because of it reflects more uptodate scholarship.
 
Look into Taylor Marshalls books, I know he has one specifically about Christmas and why it is December 25th, it will probably answer all your questions (I’m sure you can download it too rather than get a hard copy).

Also, never feel embarassed about asking questions! Questions are great ways to learn more about our faith and WHY we believe what we do. Take your time, pray, and research, you will be answered 🙂
 
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