why do all non-Catholic churches celebrate/ commemorate (a tradition not found in the bible) - the birth of our Lord and Savior, once a year, on Dece

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Comparing and contrasting beliefs outside the CC. I understand, for the most part, the doctrinal unity and disunity that exists in the various Protestant churches. What I don’t understand is this: if, everything must be found in the Holy Bible, to be believed and praciticed (for all Sola Scriptura advocates of course) - then why do all non-Catholic churches celebrate/commemorate the birth of our Lord and Savior, once a year, on December 25th? Don’t get me wrong; I believe this IS a must, but this is a tradition started by the CC, and I thought that traditions (especially traditions of the CC) - were a big no-no? We are told to “do this in remembrance of me” by Jesus, but that was in connection with the Eucharist, which is Jesus’ real food… John 6:55 “For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.”

Christmas originated in Roman culture that celebrated the winter solstice on December 25. This was a pagan celebration of the birth of the sun (Natalis Solis Invicti ), which, to the pagans, marked the change of seasons that promised springtime and renewal of the earth. By the early fourth century, Christians began celebrating the birth of Jesus at this time, (which means that it was a Catholic tradition, not found in the holy Bible) - as an alternative to the pagan observance of non-Christians, of the winter solstice. This date was chosen to offset pagan celebrations of Saturnalia and Natalis Invicti.
 
It was in the Bible: the wise men came with gifts to honor Christ’s birthday.

As to taking over pagan holidays and customs, and turning them into Catholic ones, they succeeded in eradicating the pagan holidays and customs until we only had Catholic ones…it doesn’t matter what the origin is. The current message is what is important.
 
Around Christmas time there were a bunch of Protestants who came around making that exact argument as to why Christmas should not be celebrated.
 
Rence;6379163]It was in the Bible: the wise men came with gifts to honor Christ’s birthday.

But it doesn’t tell us to do this every year, and on the 25th of December; that is a Catholic tradition embraced by almost all Protestants. Why embrace that one but reject others?
As to taking over pagan holidays and customs, and turning them into Catholic ones, they succeeded in eradicating the pagan holidays and customs until we only had Catholic ones…it doesn’t matter what the origin is. The current message is what is important.
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Agreed. 👍
 
Nine_Two said:
Around Christmas time there were a bunch of Protestants who came around making that exact argument as to why Christmas should not be celebrated.
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Do they not celebrate Christmas once a year, on the 25th of December, if so, which churches?
 
joe370 said:
Do they not celebrate Christmas once a year, on the 25th of December, if so, which churches?
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They didn’t celebrate Christmas at all. As you say they believed it to be a purely pagan holiday.
 
joe370 said:
Comparing and contrasting beliefs outside the CC. I understand, for the most part, the doctrinal unity and disunity that exists in the various Protestant churches. What I don’t understand is this: if, everything must be found in the Holy Bible, to be believed and praciticed (for all Sola Scriptura advocates of course) - then why do all non-Catholic churches celebrate/commemorate the birth of our Lord and Savior, once a year, on December 25th? Don’t get me wrong; I believe this IS a must, but this is a tradition started by the CC, and I thought that traditions (especially traditions of the CC) - were a big no-no? We are told to “do this in remembrance of me” by Jesus, but that was in connection with the Eucharist, which is Jesus’ real food… John 6:55 “For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.”

Christmas originated in Roman culture that celebrated the winter solstice on December 25. This was a pagan celebration of the birth of the sun (Natalis Solis Invicti ), which, to the pagans, marked the change of seasons that promised springtime and renewal of the earth. By the early fourth century, Christians began celebrating the birth of Jesus at this time, (which means that it was a Catholic tradition, not found in the holy Bible) - as an alternative to the pagan observance of non-Christians, of the winter solstice. This date was chosen to offset pagan celebrations of Saturnalia and Natalis Invicti.
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This is called a strawman argument.

Unless you are in a few denominations like Church of Christ, your belief system is not “If it ain’t in the Bible we ain’t doing it” (see a thread started be me a few months back ‘What
is Sola Scriptura’ for more detail).

I have noted that say in the future we discovered a long lost document where we learned without any doubt that Jesus was born on July 17, we would not have issues switching the date of this celebration to July 17. That is because we do not recognize the date of December 25 as being incapable of being incorrect.

But who knows, maybe even in that case we would leave it December 25.
 
AmateurPianist said:
This is called a strawman argument.

Unless you are in a few denominations like Church of Christ, your belief system is not “If it ain’t in the Bible we ain’t doing it” (see a thread started be me a few months back ‘What
is Sola Scriptura’ for more detail).

I have noted that say in the future we discovered a long lost document where we learned without any doubt that Jesus was born on July 17, we would not have issues switching the date of this celebration to July 17. That is because we do not recognize the date of December 25 as being incapable of being incorrect.

But who knows, maybe even in that case we would leave it December 25.
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This is not a strawman argument. From what I can read, the purpose of this thread is to show that tradition does exist. More than that can be discussed in later threads by interested Protestants, but the point is that there is overwhelming correlation to consider that tradition does exist. Then on top of this, the correlation is compared to historical data which shows a pattern over time of the tradition, establishing that traditions outside of the bible does exist.
 
joe370 said:
  • then why do all non-Catholic churches celebrate/commemorate the birth of our Lord and Savior, once a year, on December 25th?
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Not all do. After a quick internet search I came up with this short list:

Jehovah’s Witnesses
Seventh Day Adventists
Church of Christ
Plymouth Brethren

There were more but I can’t remember the names as I type this. :o
It seems the most common reason for not celebrating Christmas is due to its “pagan roots”. I also found one guy that says he doesn’t celebrate Christmas because it is “Catholic and pagan”! 🤷 Some of these folks don’t seem to celebrate birthdays of any kind. Must be a bummer being a kid there! I wouldn’t even ask them about the “tooth fairy”. :eek:
 
StillWondering said:
This is not a strawman argument. From what I can read, the purpose of this thread is to show that tradition does exist. More than that can be discussed in later threads by interested Protestants, but the point is that there is overwhelming correlation to consider that tradition does exist. Then on top of this, the correlation is compared to historical data which shows a pattern over time of the tradition, establishing that traditions outside of the bible does exist.
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If the purpose of the thread is to show that tradition does exist, then you should not get any disagreement unless someone from the Church of Christ and maybe a few other denominations choose to chime in.

I was specifically addressing this little snippet:
if, everything must be found in the Holy Bible, to be believed and praciticed (for all Sola Scriptura advocates of course)
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This is not the definition of Sola Scriptura (again) unless you belong to the Church of Christ and maybe a couple of other similar denominations. But yet this position is assumed for all Sola Scriptura advocates.
 
The secular world, in which many Christians reside, celebrates Christmas on the 25th of December If Christmas fell on Sunday and not Saturday this year you would probably be asking why so many Protestant Churches are closed on Christmas Sunday…
 
joe370 said:
Rence;6379163]It was in the Bible: the wise men came with gifts to honor Christ’s birthday.

But it doesn’t tell us to do this every year, and on the 25th of December; that is a Catholic tradition embraced by almost all Protestants. Why embrace that one but reject others?

Agreed. 👍
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As a Christian I celebrate Christmas. We know Jesus was born of a virgin, but not when.

Your salvation does not depend on whether you celebrate HIS birth. It is not a false or deceiving tradition. We all know that we don’t know for sure when Jesus was born.

These are false and deceiving traditions-

We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. Pope Boniface VIII

Into this fold of Jesus Christ no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff, and only if they be united to him can men be saved. Pope John XXIII

Those who are obstinate toward the authority of the Church and the Roman Pontiff… cannot obtain eternal salvation. Pope Pius IX
 
schaick said:
As a Christian I celebrate Christmas. We know Jesus was born of a virgin, but not when.

Your salvation does not depend on whether you celebrate HIS birth. It is not a false or deceiving tradition. We all know that we don’t know for sure when Jesus was born.

These are false and deceiving traditions-

We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. Pope Boniface VIII

Into this fold of Jesus Christ no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff, and only if they be united to him can men be saved. Pope John XXIII

Those who are obstinate toward the authority of the Church and the Roman Pontiff… cannot obtain eternal salvation. Pope Pius IX
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I have been informed that Popes might have said this but they were not infallible statments and not a part of Catholic doctrine! Very Good!
 
Jesus Christ never thought it necessary that we know His birthdate…If it was important for our salvation, He would have let us known a long time ago…

What Is important is how and what the Angel Gabriel said to the shepherds…the symbol of the star, being born in a lowly stable, and being placed in an animal feeder wrapped in swaddling clothes…

These have deeper meanings…conversion and nourishment…and protection…and…
 
Poco said:
Not all do. After a quick internet search I came up with this short list:

Jehovah’s Witnesses
Seventh Day Adventists
Church of Christ
Plymouth Brethren
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Well, in order to be called a “church” the organization should first be recognizably Christian. I don’t think the JWs qualify, honestly. And many (though not me) would argue that the SDAs don’t, either.

The Restorationist churches (the various Campbellites & Plymouth Brethren included) tried to start from a clean slate, Bible-only perspective. Of course, they are using a body of texts which itself bears the clear imprint of the Church Catholic, which raises a number of questions. I have read attempts by Church-of-Christers to explain the canon of Scripture as self-validating, none of which are epistemologically convincing. No matter how you try to disguise it, that argument boils down to “The Bible is true because the Bible says so,” a textbook petitio principii.
 
joe370 said:
Comparing and contrasting beliefs outside the CC. I understand, for the most part, the doctrinal unity and disunity that exists in the various Protestant churches. What I don’t understand is this: if, everything must be found in the Holy Bible, to be believed and praciticed (for all Sola Scriptura advocates of course) - then why do all non-Catholic churches celebrate/commemorate the birth of our Lord and Savior, once a year, on December 25th?
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MUCH confusion here…
  1. Sola Scriptura is the PRACTICE of using Scripture as the rule/canon/norma normans for the norming of doctrines.
  2. Celebrating the Nativity of Our Lord on December 25 is a custom, a practice, a “tradition” with a lowercase, “t.” I know of no denomination (including The Catholic Church) that states, as a matter of doctrine or dogma, that Jesus was born on December 25.
Don’t get me wrong; I believe this IS a must, but this is a tradition started by the CC
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On of the things I find remarkable here at CAF is how Catholics just don’t even seem to know that the Oriential and Eastern Orthodox Churches exist - or ever did. It’s just Catholic everything. Hey, without a doubt, this custom predates Martin Luther. So what? I also use books, and they predate Luther and the guy who invented the printing press was a Catholic, I just don’t have a clue what that has to do with the dogmas that divide us or whether what we teach as dogma should be regarded as accountable.

🤷

.
 
Not all “Protestants” celebrate Xmas as a “feast day”. I acknowledge Xmas as a cultural oddity which has been adopted into modern life…but Dec. 25th, Jan 6th are no different than any other days of the year…but in our Western culture those days carry significance for Western people who have been very influenced by Western Christianity through the Catholic church.
 
joe370 said:
Comparing and contrasting beliefs outside the CC. I understand, for the most part, the doctrinal unity and disunity that exists in the various Protestant churches. What I don’t understand is this: if, everything must be found in the Holy Bible, to be believed and praciticed (for all Sola Scriptura advocates of course) - then why do all non-Catholic churches celebrate/commemorate the birth of our Lord and Savior, once a year, on December 25th? Don’t get me wrong; I believe this IS a must, but this is a tradition started by the CC, and I thought that traditions (especially traditions of the CC) - were a big no-no? We are told to “do this in remembrance of me” by Jesus, but that was in connection with the Eucharist, which is Jesus’ real food… John 6:55 “For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.”
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Joe,

I think you are trying too hard to find discrepancies between Christians where they don’t exist. Lutheranism, and I speak only for it, did not begin with a tabula rasa in 1517. From a Lutheran perspective, the first fifteen hundred years of Christian history and theology were not erased by the Reformation. As I have pointed out in other threads, those fifteen hundred years are part of our history. The celebration of the Nativity of Our Lord is part of that history. So also are the celebrations of the Resurrection, All Saints, etc., and the observances of Lent and Good Friday. Nowhere in Holy Scripture are we commanded to observe or celebrate these, but we find it good to do so just as most Christians throughout the centuries have done.
 
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