Why do Anglicans think they are Catholic?

[VARC]

Anglicans believe in sola fide. I don’t see how that can be understood as Catholic.

Ask John Paul II. Since he signed the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine on Justification with the Lutherans, no catholic can lecture anyone about sola fide.

 

[anglocat]

I must say that I am also dissapointed with the type of discussions that are going on here. I am Anglican who adores the RCC and feels that the RCC has alot to teach us folks from the “other” sacramental type of churches. I stumbled into pentecostalism after moving away from home, a decision I still regret as I wasted so much time there. I am fed up with their websites and judgemental theories about mainline denominations.

Believe it or not, when the RCC gets attacked in the "protestant " circles, the Anglican church is the only one that cares to act as an apologetic on their behalf.

 

[chris_molter]

I must say that I am also dissapointed with the type of discussions that are going on here.

Welcome! This is the internet, of course, so you’re going to see all kinds of wacky responses and discussions here. You’ll get your triumphalist Catholics, your hyper-Evangelicals, your liberal deconstructionists, Atheists, Muslims, and occasionally, someone eminently reasonable … like me.

(oh, and GKC… he’s not a bad sort of fellow. For an Anglican.)

Seriously, though, don’t let the crazies get you down!

 

[emeraldcoast]

There are several different groups:

The conservative, traditional Anglicans in communion with Canterbury. These outnumber the liberal ones, but the liberal ones have more influence, being primarily Western. Due to the re-ordination in the 1930’s with Old Catholic lines, they have valid apostolic succession for the most part. They are mainly in less Western areas, and reject women’s “ordination” and reject the acceptance of gay culture as acceptable in Christian life.

The conservative Anglicans who, unfortunately, allow women priests. They have diluted apostolic succession.

The liberal Anglicans/Episcopalians, also in communion with Canterbury. They have highly diluted apostolic succession, which is even more dubious due to there new heretical views on the Sacraments, probably invalidating them altogether. They push for womens’ and non-celibate gays’ ordination.

Continuing Anglicans, who have maintained traditional understanding and valid apostolic succession.

Continuing Anglicans, who, unfortunately, have either rejected apostolic succession, or have lost or diluted it (mainly with women priestesses and bishops).

Which group are you referring to?

Can we please have a source for your information? Thanks!

God Bless!

 

[grampben]

Can we please have a source for your information? Thanks!

God Bless!

The thing is, these groups are not instutions and so the post isn’t fact!

There are still conservatives within TEC, so how come only the liberals can be called episcopalians under this model?

 

[GKC]

Welcome! This is the internet, of course, so you’re going to see all kinds of wacky responses and discussions here. You’ll get your triumphalist Catholics, your hyper-Evangelicals, your liberal deconstructionists, Atheists, Muslims, and occasionally, someone eminently reasonable … like me.

(oh, and GKC… he’s not a bad sort of fellow. For an Anglican.)

Seriously, though, don’t let the crazies get you down!

I am, too. Crazy, that is.

I’m knee deep in taxes and getting crazier.

GKC

 

[emeraldcoast]

The thing is, these groups are not instutions and so the post isn’t fact!

There are still conservatives within TEC, so how come only the liberals can be called episcopalians under this model?

I thought that maybe tomorrow night at our Church Lenten Supper, that I should inform everyone present of who we are and what we all believe according to Matariel’s post. I honestly think that everyone present would get a good giggle out of it, especially the conservatives.

May your Lent be blessed by Christ’s love!

 

[Matariel]

Can we please have a source for your information? Thanks!

God Bless!

I used to be Anglican.

It’s an oversimplification. My point was, there are different kinds of Anglicans.

I thought that maybe tomorrow night at our Church Lenten Supper, that I should inform everyone present of who we are and what we all believe according to Matariel’s post. I honestly think that everyone present would get a good giggle out of it, especially the conservatives.

The Episcopal Church is overwhelmingly liberal in on their public moral stances (ordination of gays, priestesses, abortion, socialism, etc.,). Heck, I’m sure you’ve read their statements on abortion and other such things. I stand by my post.

 

[GKC]

I used to be Anglican.

It’s an oversimplification. My point was, there are different kinds of Anglicans.

The Episcopal Church is overwhelmingly liberal in on their public moral stances (ordination of gays, priestesses, abortion, socialism, etc.,). Heck, I’m sure you’ve read their statements on abortion and other such things. I stand by my post.

With a few caveats, your summary is pretty good. It’s broad-brush, but correct, in essence.

Still not so sure about a Continuing Anglican jurisdiction and females in sacerdotal garments.

But that there are a variety of Anglicans (more than historically so, under the Elizabethan Compromise) and that much of official first world Anglicanism is liberal, stretching out to apostate, is so.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I used to be Anglican.

It’s an oversimplification. My point was, there are different kinds of Anglicans.

The Episcopal Church is overwhelmingly liberal in on their public moral stances (ordination of gays, priestesses, abortion, socialism, etc.,). Heck, I’m sure you’ve read their statements on abortion and other such things. I stand by my post.

Since you were Anglican, you know that TEC is very broad, and there are disagreements on many of these issues. By the way, we have no priestesses as you call them. Please refrain from pejorative words used only to evidence your distaste. We are refraining from using words that are unkind about RCC, and we expect you to do the same. Those of us who are from liberal churches within the TEC are in no way ashamed of that. We are quite proud of the our positions on social issues and believe deeply that they are biblically based. I’m sure you feel the same about your faith tradition. Let’s repect our differences and concentrate on what we agree on. As some one here said on another thread, when some Protestant traditions begin to bash Catholics, it is the Anglicans who often come to their defense.

 

[GKC]

Since you were Anglican, you know that TEC is very broad, and there are disagreements on many of these issues. By the way, we have no priestesses as you call them. Please refrain from pejorative words used only to evidence your distaste. We are refraining from using words that are unkind about RCC, and we expect you to do the same. Those of us who are from liberal churches within the TEC are in no way ashamed of that. We are quite proud of the our positions on social issues and believe deeply that they are biblically based. I’m sure you feel the same about your faith tradition. Let’s repect our differences and concentrate on what we agree on. As some one here said on another thread, when some Protestant traditions begin to bash Catholics, it is the Anglicans who often come to their defense.

I do not, myself, use the term “priestess” though I agree with the logic behind the use, of those who do. OTOH, to use it in such a way puts one in the company of C. S. Lewis, which, to many Anglicans and RCs, is not a bad place to be.

GKC

*Anglicanus Catholicus *

 

[Lothair]

I have come across a few Anglican women “priests” who have told me they consider themselves Catholic. Now I understand why they are not, but I want to know why they really think they are.

Well, they would call themselves Catholic, just not Roman Catholic. They have a sacramental system, though with two sacraments rather than seven. They use the ‘Book of Common Prayer’ as a guide for liturgy and the Mass rather than the Missal, etc.

Their priesthood has been nullified by the Papal Bull of 1896 and much of the reason is over the form of ordination used very early in the 16th century, as will as the Church of England’s rather spotty teaching on the Eucharist.

Lately, much of the fodder for disagreement has been over the ordination of Priestesses and High Priestesses. It all looks very unBiblical to the rest of us. But, not ALL Anglican churchs are in fact so unorthodox. Some are quite Biblical.

 

[GKC]

Well, they would call themselves Catholic, just not Roman Catholic. They have a sacramental system, though with two sacraments rather than seven. They use the ‘Book of Common Prayer’ as a guide for liturgy and the Mass rather than the Missal, etc.

Their priesthood has been nullified by the Papal Bull of 1896 and much of the reason is over the form of ordination used very early in the 16th century, as will as the Church of England’s rather spotty teaching on the Eucharist.

Lately, much of the fodder for disagreement has been over the ordination of Priestesses and High Priestesses. It all looks very unBiblical to the rest of us. But, not ALL Anglican churchs are in fact so unorthodox. Some are quite Biblical.

A few details.

Anglicans differ in a number of ways. One would be over the number of sacraments. Seven is commonly affirmed. The Anglican Missal, in several forms, often is used at Mass. Drop by the parish and I’ll show you.

*Apostolicae Curae *didn’t nullify the Anglican priesthood. It confirmed (in its logic) that the RCC judgment on Anglican orders had always been, (ab origine), that they were null and void. The teachings on the Eucharist played no part in that Bull. “Very early in the 16th century” is inaccurate.

I agree with your last para.

GKC

*Anglicanus Catholicus
*

 

[Matariel]

Since you were Anglican, you know that TEC is very broad, and there are disagreements on many of these issues. By the way, we have no priestesses as you call them. Please refrain from pejorative words used only to evidence your distaste.

priestess means “female priest”. I fail to see how this is pejorative?

Calling them “priests” implies they are male, which is certainly an insult to confuse their gender on purpose. To me that would seem distasteful.

We are refraining from using words that are unkind about RCC, and we expect you to do the same.

I did not use an unkind word. Priestess is a well-known English word that means “female priest”. So I fail to see how this is an unkind word.

We are quite proud of the our positions on social issues and believe deeply that they are biblically based.

That wasn’t my point. I merely pointed out that the Protestant Episcopal Church’s official statements would be considered liberal by any fair-minded human being. I wasn’t arguing whether it was biblically correct or not.

I’m sure you feel the same about your faith tradition. Let’s repect our differences and concentrate on what we agree on. As some one here said on another thread, when some Protestant traditions begin to bash Catholics, it is the Anglicans who often come to their defense.

I wasn’t “bashing” anyone. I don’t understand why people play the victim so frequently nowadays.

 

[grampben]

That wasn’t my point. I merely pointed out that the Protestant Episcopal Church’s official statements would be considered liberal by any fair-minded human being. I wasn’t arguing whether it was biblically correct or not.]

That would depend on one’s definition of liberal.

 

[Matariel]

That would depend on one’s definition of liberal.

Geez, you can pick apart anything if you try hard enough.

I mean socially liberal, in comparison with other Protestant ecclesial communities and with the Catholic Church and Orthodox churches.

 

[GKC]

Geez, you can pick apart anything if you try hard enough.

I mean socially liberal, in comparison with other Protestant ecclesial communities and with the Catholic Church and Orthodox churches.

Or with traditional Anglican churches.

GKC

 

[grampben]

Geez, you can pick apart anything if you try hard enough.

I mean socially liberal, in comparison with other Protestant ecclesial communities and with the Catholic Church and Orthodox churches.

But one can even be socially liberal, and anti-abortion.

Liberalism means something different in the US than the rest of the world, and it means something different again when used in the context of religion.

I’m not trying to pick anything apart.

 

[Matariel]

Or with traditional Anglican churches.

GKC

Yeah, you’re right, I meant to include that too.

But one can even be socially liberal, and anti-abortion.

This would still not overthow my statement, as I wasn’t going solely by the abortion issue alone.

Liberalism means something different in the US than the rest of the world, and it means something different again when used in the context of religion.

How is it different in the States? I haven’t always lived in the U.S., but I was younger then and less concerned with political linguistics.

In the context of religion, you’re right. But it is similar to it’s political counterpart. Usually, liberalism in religion would mean less of a traditional understanding, more open to innovation or change from previous beliefs, and associations with moral positions which might be considered objectionable by traditional Catholics or Protestants (or Orthodox, for that matter).

I’m not trying to pick anything apart.

Well, my point was that people can continually p(name removed by moderator)oint this word or that word, but the general idea I stated does not need to be dissected. I wasn’t making a technical dissertation on liberalism, but making an oversimplified statement to convey a general idea.

Sorry if I misunderstood that you were trying to pick apart.

 

[josie_L]

Now don’t get mad anyone, but look at what I came across:

“All heretics wish to be styled Catholic, yet if anyone asks them where is the Catholic place of worship none would venture to point out his own.”

– Augustine of Hippo, convert, bishop, theologian, Doctor of the Church; using the early Christian consensus on the name of the Catholic Church to show how even heretics know the true church.