Why do animals suffer?

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CatsAndDogs said:
Animals suffer pain. But they don’t suffer as persons do. They do not have “redemptive suffering”.
This is exactly the point and I agreed before regarding redemptive suffering. This is the first you acknowledged animals suffer pain which was the point, they do.
It is certainly wrong to be cruel and inflict needless pain. It is also wrong to not help alleviate the pain of animals when possible. Absolutely

Human suffering is to be given to God as an offering. Animals are not “called” to do that.
absolutely
That is why it is kind to euthanize animals, and evil to euthanize persons.
Redarding animals, schools out for me on this one, I am torn between both ways.:shamrock2:
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That_one_guy said:
Why did God accept Abels sacrifice over Cains? Why did the ancient Jews sacrifice animals?I know that Jesus’ sacrifice abolished this.And I am also aware that Hebrews 10:4(good buddy:p ) states that the BLOOD of bulls and goats cannot redeem…etc
So what was it that God required from these animals that ,at least temporarily, appeased Him?
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But,I repeat myself.
 
CatsAndDogs said:
You’ve got that backwards.

Animals can’t sin because they have no souls.

It is wrong to cause needless pain to animals. It is not wrong to kill and eat them, or do research on them.

I have lived among animals my entire life.

But, animals are not persons. Check your thinking with the Church as to “over-empathizing” with animals.

:shamrock2:
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My thinking runs parallel with that of the Church actually. You read more into what I wrote than was there. Show me in anything I wrote that places animals equal to people. I haven’t so you can’t but I will say I have come across many people who have acted like rabid animals in their treatment of wild life and anything else for that matter. And regarding my statement that animals don’t need a soul, of course that was my opinion based on the fact they can not sin. If you can show how they would sin if they possessed a soul, I would be open to hearing that opinion. You can read Genesis, read the words of the pope, and anything else you wish but in comparison I do not place animal on an equal plain with people. I do respect them completely as creatures of God and appreciate the gift in them given to us by God. I also do take the position that they do possess some form of “being” that God through His pleasure of them has instilled.
 
I absolutely ADORE (in a non-worshiping way, of course) the ignore function! 🙂

“This user is on your Ignore List”, has GOT to be one of the nicest things I see when I come to CAF.

The very best of everything to you all!

:shamrock2:
 
CatsAndDogs said:
Did that come from HERE?

Is it really healthy to empathize so much with one’s food? 🙂

The “faction” that thinks that it is evil to treat animals as animals is a bit too “fundamentalist” in orientation, to me. But, I could be wrong, I suppose.

:shamrock2:
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Personally, I have nothing against a person who hunts and utilizes what he kills for food, God gave us this as a resource. I have something against those who kill animals for trophies, personal enjoyment, or entertainment, or because they don’t like the looks of them or they are psychologically bothered by them. I especially have problems with people who think its entertaining to watch a suffering animal in its torment. We wont get into destruction of habitats for wealth, thats another thread.
 
CatsAndDogs said:
I absolutely ADORE (in a non-worshiping way, of course) the ignore function! 🙂

“This user is on your Ignore List”, has GOT to be one of the nicest things I see when I come to CAF.

The very best of everything to you all!

:shamrock2:
Click to expand...
That_one_guy said:
Why did God accept Abels sacrifice over Cains? Why did the ancient Jews sacrifice animals?I know that Jesus’ sacrifice abolished this.And I am also aware that Hebrews 10:4(good buddy:p ) states that the BLOOD of bulls and goats cannot redeem…etc
So what was it that God required from these animals that ,at least temporarily, appeased Him?
Click to expand...
I’m not ignoring you!I like your (name removed by moderator)ut!I don’t necessarily agree with it.But, I’m willing to listen!
Is my question about animals above not relevant?
🤷

Redemption of animals

According to the Mosaic Law, the first-born male of animals was sacred to the Lord, and, if a first-born of legally clean animals, and without blemish, had to be offered in sacrifice. As unclean animals should not be immolated to Yahweh, their first-born was either to be redeemed according to the valuation of the priest, with the addition of one-fifth of the value, or to be sold and the price given to the priest (Leviticus 27:27). The first-born of an ***, however, had to be redeemed with a lamb, or, if not redeemed, put to death (Exodus 13:13). Outside of the first-born, any animal could be dedicated to God by vow. It would be ransomed only if it were legally unfit for sacrifice, in which case the price for its redemption was left to the valuation of the priest, to which was added one-fifth of the value (Leviticus 27:11-13).

from
newadvent.org/cathen/12681a.htm
 
twb1621 said:
Personally, I have nothing against a person who hunts and utilizes what he kills for food, God gave us this as a resource. I have something against those who kill animals for trophies, personal enjoyment, or entertainment, or because they don’t like the looks of them or they are psychologically bothered by them. I especially have problems with people who think its entertaining to watch a suffering animal in its torment. We wont get into destruction of habitats for wealth, thats another thread.
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well, at least you finally admitted they do suffer… jeeez:thumbsup:
 
CatsAndDogs said:
I absolutely ADORE (in a non-worshiping way, of course) the ignore function! 🙂

“This user is on your Ignore List”, has GOT to be one of the nicest things I see when I come to CAF.

The very best of everything to you all!

:shamrock2:
Click to expand...
Well, THAT message and this one:

“This message is hidden because is on your ignore list.”

…quite nice, indeed. Downright warm and fuzzy! 🙂

:shamrock2:
 
twb1621 said:
so typical…:imsorry:
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I HEREBY DECLARE THAT ALL POSTS IN THIS THREAD SHALL NOT BE RULED BY OUR EMOTIONS!!!
even if you make me mad.
I wanna learn stuff as well as share stuff.
Come on guys,…let’s be charitable about this…
 
paws4prayer.com/animalsinheaven.html

Pope John Paul II declared that animals have souls. I abhore the hunting of animals. :eek: They are our brothers and sisters, as St. Francis loved them. I love them. God can do anything. If He wills it, my prayers will be answered and my beloved cat, who is dying of cancer, will be with me forever in heaven. Animals are God’s beloved creatures and each one is a living testimony to His greatness.🙂 When they suffer, they are stoic, not like human beings. Perhaps it is because they are closer to nature and instictively hide their suffering. That stems from protecting themselves as appearing vulnerable to predators. It carries into our society when they hide their suffering so as not to be euthanized. Many times people could administer pain medication to them instead of killing them; but it would be inconvenient for the human to have a sick pet.
How perfectly crafted animals are by the divine Artist and then given the breath of life! They are miraculous.
 
RosalieM said:
paws4prayer.com/animalsinheaven.html

Pope John Paul II declared that animals have souls. I abhore the hunting of animals. :eek: They are our brothers and sisters, as St. Francis loved them. I love them. God can do anything. If He wills it, my prayers will be answered and my beloved cat, who is dying of cancer, will be with me forever in heaven. Animals are God’s beloved creatures and each one is a living testimony to His greatness.🙂 When they suffer, they are stoic, not like human beings. Perhaps it is because they are closer to nature and instictively hide their suffering. That stems from protecting themselves as appearing vulnerable to predators. It carries into our society when they hide their suffering so as not to be euthanized. Many times people could administer pain medication to them instead of killing them; but it would be inconvenient for the human to have a sick pet.
How perfectly crafted animals are by the divine Artist and then given the breath of life! They are miraculous.
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I understand and support you in your feelings. As far as hunting is concerned, I do not think it is necessary in these days and do not like it either, but because our Lord God extended this to Adam and Eve, I must accept it as such. Otherwise you have a good heart and respect God’s creations, this is proper, God I am sure is pleased.
 
That_one_guy said:
Why did God accept Abels sacrifice over Cains?
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I had it explained that Cain’s failing was in not being the best he had.
Genesis 4 : “And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the** fruit of the ground **an offering unto the LORD. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.”
Abels is said to be “firstlings of his flock” and Cain’s lacks this emphasis. I don’t know that is correct, but that’s how I’ve heard the explination go.
That_one_guy said:
Why did the ancient Jews sacrifice animals?
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I have always thought this went back to Abraham and Isaac. God let the lamb lay in the first born’s place and be offered. Thus the Jews carried the custom of offering animals to God to show their trust and devotion like father Abraham.
That_one_guy said:
I know that Jesus’ sacrifice abolished this.And I am also aware that Hebrews 10:4(good buddy:p ) states that the BLOOD of bulls and goats cannot redeem…etc
So what was it that God required from these animals that ,at least temporarily, appeased Him?
Click to expand...
I think God’s temporary appeasement was in the sacrifice made in offering Him what was otherwise a valued commodity with joy. Also, as above, it eccos the actions of Abraham.
 
RosalieM said:
paws4prayer.com/animalsinheaven.html

Pope John Paul II declared that animals have souls. I abhore the hunting of animals. :eek: They are our brothers and sisters, as St. Francis loved them. I love them. God can do anything. If He wills it, my prayers will be answered and my beloved cat, who is dying of cancer, will be with me forever in heaven. Animals are God’s beloved creatures and each one is a living testimony to His greatness.🙂 When they suffer, they are stoic, not like human beings. Perhaps it is because they are closer to nature and instictively hide their suffering. That stems from protecting themselves as appearing vulnerable to predators. It carries into our society when they hide their suffering so as not to be euthanized. Many times people could administer pain medication to them instead of killing them; but it would be inconvenient for the human to have a sick pet.
How perfectly crafted animals are by the divine Artist and then given the breath of life! They are miraculous.
Click to expand...
A prayer for your cat.
from this link

franciscanfriarstor.com/stfrancis/s

THE BLESSING OF EACH PET (INDIVIDUALLY)955 After the prayer of blessing, as circumstances suggest,the minister may sprinkle those present and the animals with holy water."N.(name of animal, i.e. “Smokey”, not cat/dog) may you be blessed in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. May you and N. (the name of the “owner”) enjoy life together and find joy with the God who created you."alternate form - useful for those of other faith traditions “N., may you be blessed in the Name of God who created you, and may you and N. (the owner) enjoy life together with our God.” tf_blessingofanimals.htm
THE BLESSING OF EACH PET (INDIVIDUALLY)

955 After the prayer of blessing, as circumstances suggest,
the minister may sprinkle those present and the animals with holy water.

“N.(name of animal, i.e. “Smokey”, not cat/dog) may you be blessed in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. May you and N. (the name of the “owner”) enjoy life together and find joy with the God who created you.”

alternate form - useful for those of other faith traditions “N., may you be blessed in the Name of God who created you, and may you and N. (the owner) enjoy life together with our God.”

THE BLESSING OF EACH PET (INDIVIDUALLY)

955 After the prayer of blessing, as circumstances suggest,
the minister may sprinkle those present and the animals with holy water.

“N.(name of animal, i.e. “Smokey”, not cat/dog) may you be blessed in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. May you and N. (the name of the “owner”) enjoy life together and find joy with the God who created you.”

alternate form - useful for those of other faith traditions “N., may you be blessed in the Name of God who created you, and may you and N. (the owner) enjoy life together with our God.”
:signofcross:
 
Smber2c said:
I had it explained that Cain’s failing was in not being the best he had.
Genesis 4 : “And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the** fruit of the ground **an offering unto the LORD. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.”
Abels is said to be “firstlings of his flock” and Cain’s lacks this emphasis. I don’t know that is correct, but that’s how I’ve heard the explination go.

I have always thought this went back to Abraham and Isaac. God let the lamb lay in the first born’s place and be offered. Thus the Jews carried the custom of offering animals to God to show their trust and devotion like father Abraham.

I think God’s temporary appeasement was in the sacrifice made in offering Him what was otherwise a valued commodity with joy. Also, as above, it eccos the actions of Abraham.
Click to expand...
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4537307#post4537307?rd=
 
That_one_guy said:
A prayer for your cat.
from this link

franciscanfriarstor.com/stfrancis/s

THE BLESSING OF EACH PET (INDIVIDUALLY)955 After the prayer of blessing, as circumstances suggest,the minister may sprinkle those present and the animals with holy water."N.(name of animal, i.e. “Smokey”, not cat/dog) may you be blessed in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. May you and N. (the name of the “owner”) enjoy life together and find joy with the God who created you."alternate form - useful for those of other faith traditions “N., may you be blessed in the Name of God who created you, and may you and N. (the owner) enjoy life together with our God.” tf_blessingofanimals.htm
THE BLESSING OF EACH PET (INDIVIDUALLY)

955 After the prayer of blessing, as circumstances suggest,
the minister may sprinkle those present and the animals with holy water.

“N.(name of animal, i.e. “Smokey”, not cat/dog) may you be blessed in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. May you and N. (the name of the “owner”) enjoy life together and find joy with the God who created you.”

alternate form - useful for those of other faith traditions “N., may you be blessed in the Name of God who created you, and may you and N. (the owner) enjoy life together with our God.”

THE BLESSING OF EACH PET (INDIVIDUALLY)

955 After the prayer of blessing, as circumstances suggest,
the minister may sprinkle those present and the animals with holy water.

“N.(name of animal, i.e. “Smokey”, not cat/dog) may you be blessed in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. May you and N. (the name of the “owner”) enjoy life together and find joy with the God who created you.”

alternate form - useful for those of other faith traditions “N., may you be blessed in the Name of God who created you, and may you and N. (the owner) enjoy life together with our God.”
:signofcross:
Click to expand...
Thank you so very much.
 
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