Why do Anti catholics think Mary had other sons?

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***Please stay on topic, which is “Why do Anti Catholics think Mary had other sons?”.

If you wish to discuss/debate other Marian beliefs & teachings, or other Catholic or anything else, start a new thread on them.***
 
The Bible verses are problematic aren’t they -Paul refers to James , “the Lord’s Brother”

we just really will not know

if you accept the Church’s teaching that is it -not all are anti Catholic who believe this

the Church’s teaching was enunciated in the thread-the Orthodox actually have a slight different take on this:rolleyes:
 
Anti Catholics think Mary had other sons because they are “unlearned”, having rejected the authoritative teaching of the Church. Thus they “wrest scripture” in this, as in countless other matters, “to their own destruction” (2 Pet 3:16).

That Mary was ever virgin is completely Biblical, and is crystal clear right from the beginning of the New Testament to the very end of Jesus’ life - clear, that is, to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

At the Annunciation, Mary asks Gabriel how she will bear a son (“How can this be?”), given that she “knows not man”. Note that she asks this question BEFORE Gabriel announces that her Son will be born of the Holy Spirit. The exact sequence of the conversation is most important, because it unmistakably points to Mary’s vow of perpetual virginity. The question she asks of Gabriel makes no sense WHATSOEVER if Mary was indeed planning to consummate her forthcoming marriage to Joseph - in that case, the ONLY logical and natural conclusion she (or anyone else in her place) would have drawn from Gabriel’s words was that he was speaking about a child which she would bear (“You will bear a son…”) from a conjugal relationship with Joseph.

Then, at the end of His life, from the Cross, Jesus gives His Blessed Mother to St John - who takes her into his home. Now in Judaism, great respect was given, concern was shown, and indeed provision made in the Law (Torah), for widows. (We have to assume Mary was by the time of Jesus’ death a widow - or she’d have simply gone home to her husband Joseph after Jesus’ crucifixion). But no, she goes to live with St John. In Judaism it would be a publicly scandalous disgrace if a son or daughter refused to take in a widowed mother to live with him/her. If Jesus had, as is alleged, brothers (plural!) and sisters (plural!) why didn’t Mary go to live with even a single one of them? Did they all refuse to take her in? Had Mary and Joseph raised such disgraceful children, who were either totally ignorant or uncaring about their Jewish traditions? Did Jesus come from a family of bad stock? Did Jesus’ holiness and His teachings have no effect on His own siblings? Puh-leeze! So many of these “non Catholic Christian” doctrines/beliefs seem designed to ultimately belittle/diminish the respectability, holiness, power or glory of Christ! I’m not kidding - I could list scores of them and point out what the diabolic/blasphemous suggestions/conclusions underlying each of those doctrines are… but that would be off topic here.

Of Mary’s sinlessness, St Augustine wrote: “Every personal sin must be excluded from the Blessed Virgin Mary for the sake of the honor of God.”

In the same vein, one must conclude that for the sake of the uniqueness and dignity of Mary’s womb - which was the truest, holiest tabernacle there ever was - all other content or fruit (other than the incarnate Son of God) must be excluded from it. Indeed, from Old Testament times Ezekiel prophesies Mary’s perpetual virginity when he says: *And the Lord said to me, “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it, for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it. Therefore it shall remain shut. * There is no other gate that Jesus (the “Lord, the God of Israel”) entered the world through but the womb of Mary - and it was “shut” thereafter, exactly as prophesied. Mary remained a virgin before, during and after the birth of Jesus.

Mary is the prototype of the Church. She was ever immaculate (sinless), otherwise the Church could not be the spotless Bride of Christ. Mary was also ever-virgin, otherwise the Church would be enjoined also to another besides Christ. (And outside of Christ, there is only one other - one who is forever attempting to dispute and distort the glorious Truth which Christ has revealed to His one true Church).
 
Anti Catholics think Mary had other sons because they are “unlearned”, having rejected the authoritative teaching of the Church. Thus they “wrest scripture” in this, as in countless other matters, “to their own destruction” (2 Pet 3:16).

That Mary was ever virgin is completely Biblical, and is crystal clear right from the beginning of the New Testament to the very end of Jesus’ life - clear, that is, to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

At the Annunciation, Mary asks Gabriel how she will bear a son (“How can this be?”), given that she “knows not man”. Note that she asks this question BEFORE Gabriel announces that her Son will be born of the Holy Spirit. The exact sequence of the conversation is most important, because it unmistakably points to Mary’s vow of perpetual virginity. The question she asks of Gabriel makes no sense WHATSOEVER if Mary was indeed planning to consummate her forthcoming marriage to Joseph - in that case, the ONLY logical and natural conclusion she (or anyone else in her place) would have drawn from Gabriel’s words was that he was speaking about a child which she would bear (“You will bear a son…”) from a conjugal relationship with Joseph.

Then, at the end of His life, from the Cross, Jesus gives His Blessed Mother to St John - who takes her into his home. Now in Judaism, great respect was given, concern was shown, and indeed provision made in the Law (Torah), for widows. (We have to assume Mary was by the time of Jesus’ death a widow - or she’d have simply gone home to her husband Joseph after Jesus’ crucifixion). But no, she goes to live with St John. In Judaism it would be a publicly scandalous disgrace if a son or daughter refused to take in a widowed mother to live with him/her. If Jesus had, as is alleged, brothers (plural!) and sisters (plural!) why didn’t Mary go to live with even a single one of them? Did they all refuse to take her in? Had Mary and Joseph raised such disgraceful children, who were either totally ignorant or uncaring about their Jewish traditions? Did Jesus come from a family of bad stock? Did Jesus’ holiness and His teachings have no effect on His own siblings? Puh-leeze! So many of these “non Catholic Christian” doctrines/beliefs seem designed to ultimately belittle/diminish the respectability, holiness, power or glory of Christ! I’m not kidding - I could list scores of them and point out what the diabolic/blasphemous suggestions/conclusions underlying each of those doctrines are… but that would be off topic here.

Of Mary’s sinlessness, St Augustine wrote: “Every personal sin must be excluded from the Blessed Virgin Mary for the sake of the honor of God.”

In the same vein, one must conclude that for the sake of the uniqueness and dignity of Mary’s womb - which was the truest, holiest tabernacle there ever was - all other content or fruit (other than the incarnate Son of God) must be excluded from it. Indeed, from Old Testament times Ezekiel prophesies Mary’s perpetual virginity when he says: *And the Lord said to me, “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it, for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it. Therefore it shall remain shut. * There is no other gate that Jesus (the “Lord, the God of Israel”) entered the world through but the womb of Mary - and it was “shut” thereafter, exactly as prophesied. Mary remained a virgin before, during and after the birth of Jesus.

Mary is the prototype of the Church. She was ever immaculate (sinless), otherwise the Church could not be the spotless Bride of Christ. Mary was also ever-virgin, otherwise the Church would be enjoined also to another besides Christ. (And outside of Christ, there is only one other - one who is forever attempting to dispute and distort the glorious Truth which Christ has revealed to His one true Church).
👍 :extrahappy:
 
Anti Catholics will grasp anything to make a Catholic doubt.

But, on the whole, I am not worried by that if Mary had other sons or not in that we as christian, Anglican, Catholic and others focus on Jesus. For many, Mary is as important as Jesus but Jesus is Son of God. Her other sons, if she had any, don’t have that claim. As Christians, we focus on Jesus Christ-Son of God, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Yeh there will always be those who want to refute any claim going. Let them do so because that is their hobby as such but simply stand your ground. You don’t have to be forceful in your argument that they are wrong. Don’t approach the argument from that aspect. But gently just state your case and if they do not want to listen, they wont no matter what you say. But be gentle and quiet with what you believe and let the doubters, doubt etc. If she has other sons, well the Bible writers as such didn’t really focus on them because the Bible is about Jesus Christ not other sons she may have had or adopted or otherwise. There are many mysteries that we learn to accept that we are never going to have a concrete answer on. For us, it is about faith… and our faith accepts Jesus Christ as Mary’s son… We are all children of God but in many centuries to come, people reading about how we view children of God may wonder where all the adults were in our time because of understanding about that word. It could be that sons was just used loosely, or simply when Matthew was writing and as we all know not every word translates well into English so sons was put there because ‘Matthew’ had used a word that didn’t translate and sons was the nearest.
 
Say 9 Hail Mary’s for 9 days.
Make 3 wishes - 1 Business and 2 Impossible
Publish this on the 9th day and even if you do not believe your wishes will be granted - BCC
 
I am Catholic and studied Theology in College, but to say that anti Catholics who do not believe in the perpetual virginity are unlearned is demeaning someone’s intelligence: Also the statement lacks intelligence.
 
I am Catholic and studied Theology in College, but to say that anti Catholics who do not believe in the perpetual virginity are unlearned is demeaning someone’s intelligence: Also the statement lacks intelligence.
In that case, St Peter was a mighty demeaning man who lacked intelligence, when he spoke of those who refused to hear the Church.
 
I am Catholic and studied Theology in College, but to say that anti Catholics who do not believe in the perpetual virginity are unlearned is demeaning someone’s intelligence: Also the statement lacks intelligence.
Being unlearned/ignorant is not demeaning to intelligence. Intelligent people can be uneducated in many areas. But you are right, it may be from other causes besides that they are poorly catechized. Most “Bible Christians” have little or no understanding of the origin of their bibles, much less the faith of the Church that canonized it. They will accept the collection of books they use as authorative, but reject the qualities of the Magesterium that created it. This is ignorance.

However, there are some anti-catholics who are educated/catechized in these matters, and have read what the Fathers have written about the Blessed Mother, yet still reject it, so you are right, it does not necessarily stem from being unlearned.
 
Anti Catholics think Mary had other sons because they are “unlearned”, having rejected the authoritative teaching of the Church. Thus they “wrest scripture” in this, as in countless other matters, “to their own destruction” (2 Pet 3:16).

That Mary was ever virgin is completely Biblical, and is crystal clear right from the beginning of the New Testament to the very end of Jesus’ life - clear, that is, to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

At the Annunciation, Mary asks Gabriel how she will bear a son (“How can this be?”), given that she “knows not man”. Note that she asks this question BEFORE Gabriel announces that her Son will be born of the Holy Spirit. The exact sequence of the conversation is most important, because it unmistakably points to Mary’s vow of perpetual virginity. The question she asks of Gabriel makes no sense WHATSOEVER if Mary was indeed planning to consummate her forthcoming marriage to Joseph - in that case, the ONLY logical and natural conclusion she (or anyone else in her place) would have drawn from Gabriel’s words was that he was speaking about a child which she would bear (“You will bear a son…”) from a conjugal relationship with Joseph.

Then, at the end of His life, from the Cross, Jesus gives His Blessed Mother to St John - who takes her into his home. Now in Judaism, great respect was given, concern was shown, and indeed provision made in the Law (Torah), for widows. (We have to assume Mary was by the time of Jesus’ death a widow - or she’d have simply gone home to her husband Joseph after Jesus’ crucifixion). But no, she goes to live with St John. In Judaism it would be a publicly scandalous disgrace if a son or daughter refused to take in a widowed mother to live with him/her. If Jesus had, as is alleged, brothers (plural!) and sisters (plural!) why didn’t Mary go to live with even a single one of them? Did they all refuse to take her in? Had Mary and Joseph raised such disgraceful children, who were either totally ignorant or uncaring about their Jewish traditions? Did Jesus come from a family of bad stock? Did Jesus’ holiness and His teachings have no effect on His own siblings? Puh-leeze! So many of these “non Catholic Christian” doctrines/beliefs seem designed to ultimately belittle/diminish the respectability, holiness, power or glory of Christ! I’m not kidding - I could list scores of them and point out what the diabolic/blasphemous suggestions/conclusions underlying each of those doctrines are… but that would be off topic here.

Of Mary’s sinlessness, St Augustine wrote: “Every personal sin must be excluded from the Blessed Virgin Mary for the sake of the honor of God.”

In the same vein, one must conclude that for the sake of the uniqueness and dignity of Mary’s womb - which was the truest, holiest tabernacle there ever was - all other content or fruit (other than the incarnate Son of God) must be excluded from it. Indeed, from Old Testament times Ezekiel prophesies Mary’s perpetual virginity when he says: *And the Lord said to me, “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it, for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it. Therefore it shall remain shut. * There is no other gate that Jesus (the “Lord, the God of Israel”) entered the world through but the womb of Mary - and it was “shut” thereafter, exactly as prophesied. Mary remained a virgin before, during and after the birth of Jesus.

Mary is the prototype of the Church. She was ever immaculate (sinless), otherwise the Church could not be the spotless Bride of Christ. Mary was also ever-virgin, otherwise the Church would be enjoined also to another besides Christ. (And outside of Christ, there is only one other - one who is forever attempting to dispute and distort the glorious Truth which Christ has revealed to His one true Church).
Very well stated post! It’s also just as frustrating to me when Catholics refuse to accept the Four Marian Dogmas! :sad_yes:
 
Stupid is, as stupid does!

Even the Islamic have a reverance towards Mary, because she was an amazing women…
Which puts in perspective to anti catholic showing a lack of Chivalry towards women.

Some people have great respect towards women, but then their are the losers/failures who dont, consider the sources and write it off as classless people that dont appreciate women.

People are confused by the subject, because in some societies and religions women are to be held to great esteme and respect.

It warrents recognition in some civilizations the women are to rear the children, and to not have to work outside the home, they are to take care of the children as Mary did. the Men wouldnt think of sending the women off to war or to toil to provide an existence to sustain the family, they honor the women, that forgotten chivalry of men to honor women…
and to that, we have to remember that women at time where the first teachers of their children, and Mary would have been a key in teaching her son to do Gods will, not mans. The perfect human was Jesus, for he was the perfect sacrific to open that all men “might” attain Gods salvation…
When you cant hold chlvalry to that, your mere ignorant to whats important in life, and to appreciate women…

Catholics are to be of a nature that hold a great respect and chivalry towards women, to honor them with up most respect, to not is failure, and Mary was the prime example of such we look to to follow, the example. more than a Saint, the Mother of the infalable Church many deny as easy as they deny to all women.

Mary didnt deny God, nor should we. The perfect example for all Mothers and Women to follow.
Where is the love to win your brother to the truth. I really want to join someone with your expression of love???
 
Catholics are to be of a nature that hold a great respect and chivalry towards women, to honor them with up most respect, to not is failure, and Mary was the prime example of such we look to to follow, the example. more than a Saint, the Mother of the infalable Church many deny as easy as they deny to all women.

Mary didnt deny God, nor should we. The perfect example for all Mothers and Women to follow.
Where is the love to win your brother to the truth. I really want to join someone with your expression of love???
Sure! Why not?
 
When Peter said you refuse to hear the Church is nio the same as saying " you are unlearned".
 
When Peter said you refuse to hear the Church is nio the same as saying " you are unlearned".
For some reason you don’t like me &/or my comments on this forum/topic too much, do you, Mr Gart? You actually jumped in on the conversation the first time only to have a pointless shot at me - a fellow Catholic. Incidentally, if you must comment, please try to compose your words more carefully - check your grammar and spelling. Or ask someone.

For your information, St Peter didn’t actually say anything to or about anyone refusing to hear the Church (at least, as far as I’m aware). But Jesus did. He said those who will not hear His Church (His one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church, the only one He ever founded, and continues to build) effectively despise Him and despise the Father Who sent Him…

When any Christian (for whatever reason) rejects the teachings of the Catholic Church, or worse, subscribes to, or comes up with, counter-theories (heresies actually) based on his/her/someone else’s fallible personal understanding of scripture (as all our separated brethren do, to varying degrees) he/she is most definitely “unlearned”.

Jesus commissioned His Church to go and teach “all nations”. Take especial notice of the word “teach”. Jesus *didn’t *command any disciple of His to figure out truth for himself/herself - as Protestants do - by reading or researching Scripture. Thus, anyone who will not hear the Church (the one true Church) is *most definitely *“unlearned”, unschooled, ignorant of some or many of the vital truth(s) of God. This is exactly why St Peter said what he did about people wresting the scriptures (in preference to hearing the Church) “unto their own destruction”. And that is exactly what I originally wrote.
 
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