Why do bad christians exist?

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(I could be wrong, but given some recent “events” I am fearful of breaking the “rules” here… it is my understanding that “atheism” is not allowed to be discussed in any forums. For compliance, I wish for all to know that I am neither petitioning for a life in such a ban, or asking when such a ban will be lifted, or anything that could be potentially construed to mean that.) For reference, it says this, “For the foreseeable future, there shall be no discussion in the Philosophy Forum of evolution or atheism. Anyone who starts such a thread or revives an old thread on those topics will be banned. This ban is planned to be temporary, but there are to be no public or private petitions that the ban be lifted. It will be lifted only when the mod (yours truly) discerns that the atmosphere in this forum has sufficiently cooled.” 👍

All the Best,

JN
 
Atheistic_man said:
We all know that some persons call themselves christians. But we also know the history of christianity. We know how many persons were killed like witches or because they put a cross on themselve with two fingers (Old Believers vs Nikonians).

We all have heard about sex scandals in catholic church. Maybe you have heard about habits in orthodox church.

**.So I want to ask: Why we need the christianity if it doesent make people better? **

You can say, of course, are all atheists ideal? Is there only good people among teachers, doctors, police officers? I answer: No. But there is small (but important) difference between atheists and theists, between non-religious organisations and churches: There is no Immortal, All-knowing, Powerful Supernatural Being over atheists (over policemen, doctors and so on). But you, theists, say that it is, but you totally ignoring that being. You are ignoring your “holy book” named bible, you are ignoring 10 rules your god gave to u. I can understand ordinary believers (for them believing is only hobby), but I cant understand why professional believers (priests) give the finger to their main Boss, ignoring him.
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  1. It does make people better. Not all people all the time, but most of the world is a better place because of Christianity.
  2. It doesn’t matter how much better people become because we will never be good enough. Christ came to save us, not make us better. News flash - every single one of us are sinners. Some of us are depraved, violent, corrupt - yet all of us can be saved.
  3. Measuring Christianity by how good Christians are is missing the point entirely: That’s like measuring how fast a motorbike goes by listening to how loud its exhaust is (and yes I’m talking to you Harley riders :p).
 
From the Sayings of the Desert Fathers:

The brethren came to the Abba Anthony and said to him, ‘Speak a word; how are we to be saved?’ The old man said to them, ‘You have heard the Scriptures. That should teach you how.’ But they said, ‘We want to hear from you too, Father.’ Then the old man said to them, ‘The Gospel says, "if anyone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other one also.’ (Matt. 5:39) They said ‘We cannot do that.’ The old man said, ‘If you cannot offer the cheek, at least allow one cheek to be struck.’ ‘We cannot do that either’, they said. So he said, ‘If you are not able to do that, do not return evil for evil.’ They said, ‘We cannot do that either.’ Then the old man said to his disciple, ‘Prepare a little brew of corn for these invalids. If you cannot do this, or that, what can I do for you? What you need is prayers.’

Abba Anthony was born circa 251 AD. For a long people have not wanted to do the things they should do to be good Christians, or good people in general. I agree with Sarah X. This isn’t a ‘believer’ vs. ‘atheist’ problem – it’s a human problem, and the idea that one group’s failings are worse than the other because they have different baselines of comparison is not very reasonable. A person who has failed to live up to his own moral code is just as much a failure in that respect if he is an atheist as he is if he is a Christian. Unless of course your point is that Christians, by virtue of submitting to a higher authority, ought to be practicing as well a higher morality commensurate with its supposed source, while atheists (by virtue of not believing in any deity) don’t have to, so they’re not as bad in their failures, no matter what those failures are…but that would be an oddly God-fearing point for an “Atheistic man” such as yourself to be making, so I’ll assume you didn’t actually mean your OP that way. 😉
 
ProdglArchitect said:
To the OP, even the other atheists here are calling your argument flawed (in essence, if not directly). I would also ask you your purpose in coming, because frankly, you seem more like a troll than someone seeking knowledge.
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I can’t help but get the feeling the original question was presented as it was to be provoking. I’ve not gotten as far as evaluating whether or not it’s flawed. At the moment I’m pessimistic about it’s present wording will allow for a productive discussion.
 
Atheistic_man said:
Theory of relativity doesen’t have a deal with moral, but christians try to teach how the othere people must live.

.

All things u have to believe in are written in your book bible.

Tongue moving is not the same as bag moving. You can say and propagade all you want. But you, christians dont do things you propagade.
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The best and most important statement in the thread…

Jesus told His Apostles this:
John 13:34-35 “34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

The further away a person moves from this command…the more true will be the accusation made in the above quoted post.

Atheist_Man…it is true - we have had many bad people who have called themselves Christian. We have also had many good people who have called themselves Christian.
you mentioned in your opening posts about how many people have been killed (witches etc). I ask - how many lives have been saved by Mother Teresa of Calcutta an her missionaries of Charity?
You ask about the sex scandals…I ask you to note how many people will be walking in Washington this month in protest against abortion.

With these two small examples I ask you to step back and to take a look at the larger picture. Yes - there are bad things that happen…But there are not bad things that are taught.
We - especially in the Catholic Church - set a high goal - a goal set my our Lord and King. The goal is no less than perfection itself (Mt 5:48)…
Yes we will struggle - and yes there will be many failures - some of which you point out…
I only ask that you look at the successes as well and measure them in balance.

I have not read through all of the replies…perhaps some of these successes have already been mentioned…If not - I’m sure they will be…

Peace
James
 
Atheistic_man said:
We all know that some persons call themselves christians. But we also know the history of christianity. We know how many persons were killed like witches or because they put a cross on themselve with two fingers (Old Believers vs Nikonians).

We all have heard about sex scandals in catholic church. Maybe you have heard about habits in orthodox church.

**.So I want to ask: Why we need the christianity if it doesent make people better? **

You can say, of course, are all atheists ideal? Is there only good people among teachers, doctors, police officers? I answer: No. But there is small (but important) difference between atheists and theists, between non-religious organisations and churches: There is no Immortal, All-knowing, Powerful Supernatural Being over atheists (over policemen, doctors and so on). But you, theists, say that it is, but you totally ignoring that being. You are ignoring your “holy book” named bible, you are ignoring 10 rules your god gave to u. I can understand ordinary believers (for them believing is only hobby), but I cant understand why professional believers (priests) give the finger to their main Boss, ignoring him.
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We may be able to help you, but how did you became an atheist? How did your thinking grew into atheism?
 
Atheistic_man said:
You christians have 10 rules. God wrote them by his own hand (second edition). You have some rules your church gives to you (visit missa every Sunday and so on). As i understand that rules are created for only one thing: make some positive changes in person

But as wrote some people in this topic: christians are weak, not ideal and so on. So there is no difference between believers and non-believers. So why we need christianity? If there is no difference, why we should pay more?
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You could say the same thing about laws. If laws are supposed to make people behave and people don’t follow the law, does this mean we abolish the law?

Take cops as an additional example. Cops are supposed to behave ethically but some don’t. Do we abolish abolish the ethical rules that govern cops?

Okay so if we don’t need Christianity since it doesn’t seem to do a good job of Christians in line, what do you think should replace it?

It Christianity really the problem or is it the people who don’t adhere to its principles? By the way, no amount of principles or laws (Christian or otherwise) can make someone behave.
 
Atheistic_man said:
We all know that some persons call themselves christians. But we also know the history of christianity. We know how many persons were killed like witches or because they put a cross on themselve with two fingers (Old Believers vs Nikonians).

We all have heard about sex scandals in catholic church. Maybe you have heard about habits in orthodox church.

**.So I want to ask: Why we need the christianity if it doesent make people better? **

You can say, of course, are all atheists ideal? Is there only good people among teachers, doctors, police officers? I answer: No. But there is small (but important) difference between atheists and theists, between non-religious organisations and churches: There is no Immortal, All-knowing, Powerful Supernatural Being over atheists (over policemen, doctors and so on). But you, theists, say that it is, but you totally ignoring that being. You are ignoring your “holy book” named bible, you are ignoring 10 rules your god gave to u. I can understand ordinary believers (for them believing is only hobby), but I cant understand why professional believers (priests) give the finger to their main Boss, ignoring him.
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You could also ask

“Why do fat dieters exist?”

Truth is we fall short many times, like not going to the gym when we’re supposed to go, eating that extra helping of donuts even if the doctor says it’s a no-no.

Yet I don’t see people saying that we should abandon a healthy lifestyle because some people have trouble living up to the ideals of a healthy lifestyle.
 
Why is it that the most evil tyrants of the twentieth century (Hitler, Stalin, Mao) hated religion? :confused:
 
God’s ways are often incomprehensible to us. God is never coercive. So people may call themselves Christian and yet act terribly.

Here is a parable Jesus spoke about this very situation:

He proposed another parable to them. “The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field. While everyone was asleep his enemy came and sowed weeds all through the wheat, and then went off. When the crop grew and bore fruit, the weeds appeared as well. The slaves of the householder came to him and said, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?’ He answered, ‘An enemy has done this.’ His slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ He replied, ‘No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them. Let them grow together until harvest; then at harvest time I will say to the harvesters, “First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles for burning; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
  • Mt 13:24-30
Jesus foretold that this would happen and that his Father willed that it be so.
 
I just hate it when the pious skunks start talking about throwing people out of the Church because of their conduct, attire, or beliefs/dissent. We are ALL sinners. Why should we ever try to bar people from the source of all mercy? There but for the grace of God, go we.
 
Atheistic_man said:
We all know that some persons call themselves christians. But we also know the history of christianity. We know how many persons were killed like witches or because they put a cross on themselve with two fingers (Old Believers vs Nikonians).

We all have heard about sex scandals in catholic church. Maybe you have heard about habits in orthodox church.

**.So I want to ask: Why we need the christianity if it doesent make people better? **

You can say, of course, are all atheists ideal? Is there only good people among teachers, doctors, police officers? I answer: No. But there is small (but important) difference between atheists and theists, between non-religious organisations and churches: There is no Immortal, All-knowing, Powerful Supernatural Being over atheists (over policemen, doctors and so on). But you, theists, say that it is, but you totally ignoring that being. You are ignoring your “holy book” named bible, you are ignoring 10 rules your god gave to u. I can understand ordinary believers (for them believing is only hobby), but I cant understand why professional believers (priests) give the finger to their main Boss, ignoring him.
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ejp123:
Christianity does not perfect people, it encourages us to strive for it, but we know we will never reach it. and God knows this too, Why would he have sent his son? This is precisely why Jesus came for us and died on the the cross, which was to justify us, wash us clean from our sins. Believers and non believers are sinners and aways will be. and this is one way validating Jesus as truth.
 
georget said:
Why do bad atheists exist?🤷
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Because they have no moral center at all. Nothing to keep them accountable, a matter of convenience only criticizing their opponents, never trying to see where they come from/ perspective.
 
Atheistic_man said:
Atheism brought freedom. It said " You are not a slave, a sheep. You are free"
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Free will atheism, do you care to explain?

What philosophy logically shows how one group of people (Theist) are not free, while another group (Atheist) are free?
 
The Marquis de Sade said atheism us free to be as evil as we like without worrying about eternal consequences.

Of course, the good Marquis was not free for long as he had to be locked up in an insane asylum.

There is nothing in Christianity that suggests any such freedom, nor any such madness. 😉
 
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