Why do bad things happen to good people?

[ivebeenshown]

We have, in faith, the assurance that through repentance God will remit the eternal suffering we may deserve, but no assurance that he will remit for us any smaller degree of suffering. If we understand that mortal sin deserves eternal suffering to a higher degree of any experience in our natural lives, we might also see that any sin, even venial, might deserve any smaller degree of suffering imaginable throughout our natural lives – even including cancer or other woes.

Then what of those such as Jesus and Mary who deserved no suffering as they lacked both original and personal sin, or what did an infant do to deserve suffering at the hands of another person? Is it just that God would allow one to experience suffering that they did not personally deserve?

 

[Julia_Mae]

I know that this subject in this forum hasn’t been touched for a while. Anyways, I’m trying to help a friend out. She has another friend, whom I’ve never met, who has a tumor. It might be pretty serious, as in life threatening. They are both Catholic, but I’m at a lost for words as what to say to explain why her friend might die before she is married and has children. My friend is having a hard time understanding how someone can be taken well before they’ve lived a full life.

We aren’t here to live full lives. We’re here to get to Heaven. If God calls her friend at a young age, and it’s pretty early in this process to be buying the “worst-case” scenario, she’s going to be skipping all the pain of this world and living a MUCH fuller life in the next. The friend’s job is to be a positive and supportive person to be counted on and not let her own issues get in the way of that.

 

[stevekehl]

Simple - there universe operates according to free processes - sometimes these processes cause suffering.

Then there are the actions of free agents (like people) which can also cause suffering.

God doesn’t give you cancer, or make you born with disabilities etc.

I would disagree with you. To say that God doesn’t have authority over disease, disability, natural disaster, car accidents, etc… is to deny God’s sovereignty over this world.
Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.
If God is so intimately involved in the operation of the world that He even decrees when sparrows die, why should we believe He is not involved in every other operation on Earth.
Psalms 135:6 Whatsoever the Lord pleased he hath done, in heaven, in earth, in the sea, and in all the deeps. 7 He bringeth up clouds from the end of the earth: he hath made lightnings for the rain. He bringeth forth winds out of his stores:
Numbers 16:31 And immediately as he (Moses) had made an end of speaking, the earth broke asunder under their feet: 32 And opening her mouth, devoured them with their tents and all their substance. 33 And they went down alive into hell, the ground closing upon them, and they perished from among the people.
Mark 4:39 And rising up, he rebuked the wind, and said to the sea: Peace, be still. And the wind ceased: and there was made a great calm. 40 And he said to them: Why are you fearful? have you not faith yet? 41 And they feared exceedingly: and they said one to another: Who is this that both wind and sea obey him?
God controls the weather, the seas, and the winds. Nature is under God’s control.
Then there is the accounts of Job, Jonah, the flood, dividing the Red Sea. Not to mention Jesus healing the sick and crippled. God is not sitting back letting things happen. If this is the case, why pray?
The answer to why do bad things happen to good people is that they don’t. Only God is good, if I may quote Jesus again. Bad things happen to teach us lessons. People die young - don’t put off your decision for God because tomorrow is not guaranteed. A person loses their job or home - don’t put your faith in things of this world, they are undependable (I speak from experience). People fail us, let us down, betray us - rely on the unchanging God, whose standards never change.We suffer so we can demonstrate God’s faithfulness during trial and to comfort who face similar trials. Finally, anything learned in this world is learned through struggle and trial, whether we labor to earn money, labor to gain education, labor at a sport, labor at raising children, labor to keep the house clean (that’s me ), or labor to grow in faith.

 

[tonyrey]

I would disagree with you. To say that God doesn’t have authority over disease, disability, natural disaster, car accidents, etc… is to deny God’s sovereignty over this world.
Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.
If God is so intimately involved in the operation of the world that He even decrees when sparrows die, why should we believe He is not involved in every other operation on Earth.
Psalms 135:6 Whatsoever the Lord pleased he hath done, in heaven, in earth, in the sea, and in all the deeps. 7 He bringeth up clouds from the end of the earth: he hath made lightnings for the rain. He bringeth forth winds out of his stores:
Numbers 16:31 And immediately as he (Moses) had made an end of speaking, the earth broke asunder under their feet: 32 And opening her mouth, devoured them with their tents and all their substance. 33 And they went down alive into hell, the ground closing upon them, and they perished from among the people.
Mark 4:39 And rising up, he rebuked the wind, and said to the sea: Peace, be still. And the wind ceased: and there was made a great calm. 40 And he said to them: Why are you fearful? have you not faith yet? 41 And they feared exceedingly: and they said one to another: Who is this that both wind and sea obey him?
God controls the weather, the seas, and the winds. Nature is under God’s control.
Then there is the accounts of Job, Jonah, the flood, dividing the Red Sea. Not to mention Jesus healing the sick and crippled. God is not sitting back letting things happen. If this is the case, why pray?
The answer to why do bad things happen to good people is that they don’t. Only God is good, if I may quote Jesus again. Bad things happen to teach us lessons. People die young - don’t put off your decision for God because tomorrow is not guaranteed. A person loses their job or home - don’t put your faith in things of this world, they are undependable (I speak from experience). People fail us, let us down, betray us - rely on the unchanging God, whose standards never change.We suffer so we can demonstrate God’s faithfulness during trial and to comfort who face similar trials. Finally, anything learned in this world is learned through struggle and trial, whether we labor to earn money, labor to gain education, labor at a sport, labor at raising children, labor to keep the house clean (that’s me ), or labor to grow in faith.

Not all suffering serves a useful purpose because most events are the result of natural causes and human decisions rather than divine fiats.

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

Not all suffering serves a useful purpose because most events are the result of natural causes and human decisions rather than divine fiats.

I couldn’t disagree more. Isn’t God in charge of “natural causes”?

Here’s what the saints said about suffering: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=542373

Peace,
John Marie Philomena

 

[tonyrey]

Not all suffering serves a useful purpose because most events are the result of natural causes and human decisions rather than divine fiats.

I’m not sure what you mean by “in charge of”. Does it mean God directly wills every single event - like an earthquake which maims and kills thousands of people?

 

[fisherman_carl]

They say “life is not fair”, but if so, where does God fit into that picture? What are your thoughts? Keep in mind, I’m not an Atheist.

God bless :byzsoc:

David

life is difficult. Sure. Life is unfair. While it may seem that way sometimes it is not. Because, from God’s perspective which is eternal he sees our past, present and future and knows the outcome. He wants to give us eternal life. Whatever suffering he allows us to experience in this life is for our good.

Take Job for instance. God allowed Satan to test Job, not because Job was such a big sinner, but because he wanted to purify Job and make him holy. Job knew about God but after meeting Him, Job knew God personally. Job learned that God is in charge and he is not.

In Rev 12 it says that God disciplines those he loves so that they may share in His holiness. Because without holiness no one will see the Lord.

Peter Kreeft was asked one time If God is all knowing then he knows what we need, and if God is all powerful he can give us what we need, and if God is all good then he will give us what we need. So then why is there suffering. To which Peter Kreeft responded, God does give us what we need. We need suffering.

Some suffering we bring upon ourselves by the way we life our lives. For instance, if a chain smoker for 35 years gets lung cancer is that a big surprise?

No one is perfectly good as Job found out. Job had to learn some humility, despite that he had been a righteous man.

This world is a big saint making machine.

 

[marthagreys]

Throughout the BIble, many bad things happened to people just because they were good. In the old Testament, Job’s suffering was because he was good, as was Jesus’ suffering on the cross. And think of Paul and Silas in jail - because of the good they were doing. Jesus, too, was criticized for doing good on the Sabbath. We live in a real world where bad things happen - sometimes for reasons beyond our understanding. Hebrews 11 talks about many people in the Scriptures who had faith and were rewarded for that faith. But at the end of that chapter, a few people are listed who didn’t get that reward here on earth “because God saw something better for them.” I firmly believe that anything Satan intends for bad, God can use for something good - if we let Him.

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

I’m not sure what you mean by “in charge of”. Does it mean God directly wills every single event - like an earthquake which maims and kills thousands of people?

God formed the world and how it works - so yes He knew about earthquakes and the devastation they would cause. He knows every hair on your head. He knows everything that has happened and will happen.

I’ve come to believe - everything I have comes from God. All the money I’ve earned - was really given to me. My talents, my job, my wife, my children were all gifts. And anyone of them can be taken away at any instant. So I must give thanks to God, because these things are not really mine. My children don’t belong to me - they are loaned to me for a finite period. My job could disappear. My home could be destroyed. Everything I have comes from God and therefore belongs to God. The money I have accumulated belongs to Him. I have to be a good steward of this money - to use it for good works, to provide for my family, to provide for my children’s education, to provide for my old age, to provide for the poor and needy. Sorry for wandering a little off topic.

When I have sufferings - I give thanks for those too. Sure, I ask God to take them away, but His will be done not mine. I accept them and offer them up for my family and the poor souls in purgatory.

St Raymond:

May you never be numbered among those whose house is peaceful, quiet and free from care; those on who the Lord’s chastisement does not descend; those who live out their days in prosperity, and in the twinkling of an eye will go down to hell.

Peace,
John Marie Philomena

 

[Bill_7154]

They say “life is not fair”, but if so, where does God fit into that picture? What are your thoughts? Keep in mind, I’m not an Atheist.

God bless :byzsoc:

David

This is just my perspective from my personal life.

My earliest memories were of my drunken grandmother pulling me around by the hair at the age of 2 yrs old yelling at me. I grew up with her as my primary caretaker. She was a ‘jeckle and hyde’ drunk, changing moods on a dime, with no seeming rhime or reason to the changes from being sweet to being mean and evil. She physically, emotionally, mentally, and verbally abused me. My dad emotionally abused, verbally abused, and emotionally neglected me. My mom emotionally abused and neglected me, sexually abused me, verbally abused me, and engaged me in ‘emotional incest’ as I got older.

Surprise, surprise…I grew up very messed up. I was a basket case. I got help and whle not ‘all better’ I’m not a wild man out of control risking my life every other night going on drunken binges waking up in towns not knowing how I got there or where I was.

The way I make sense of it is that the experiences I endured, and the learning I sought out as an adult to understand my family and myself…provided me with a unique skillset where I am able to help very distrubed individuals and recognized for my talent in this area (while my co-workers and supervisors (except one) do not know of my history.

So the way I make sense of it is that I endured those terrible times so that I may help others who have endured or are enduring unspeakable abuse and neglect. I am able to establish trusting relationships with very distrubed individuals and help them improve their lot in life.

Do I wish I grew up in a normal home without abuse and was able to get a higher paying job and provide for my family better and not have PTSD and Depression that interfere with my basic and simple day to day functioning in life on a not irregular basis? Heck yes! But that is the way I make sense of, and understand why the things that happened to me happened to me.

That said, I would wish it on no one.

God Bless,
Bill

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

The question is, why do we expect the world (even nature!) to be friends with us, to help us, to be nice to us, when we are at an enmity with the world?

[BIBLEDRB]James 4:4[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Bill_7154]

+JMJ+

The question is, why do we expect the world (even nature!) to be friends with us, to help us, to be nice to us, when we are at an enmity with the world?

[BIBLEDRB]James 4:4[/BIBLEDRB]

I don’t understand. How would that apply to my post ( end of page 2) where I was severely abused and neglected as a child (and I’m not whining about it in that post, I actually described how I vew what happened to me as a way to give me insight and the ability to help others who have terrible trauma’s happen to them.

But when I read your post it sort of feels cold considering that how could I possibly be an enemy of the world when I was 2 years old?

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

I don’t understand. How would that apply to my post ( end of page 2) where I was severely abused and neglected as a child (and I’m not whining about it in that post, I actually described how I vew what happened to me as a way to give me insight and the ability to help others who have terrible trauma’s happen to them.

But when I read your post it sort of feels cold considering that how could I possibly be an enemy of the world when I was 2 years old?

The world is the enemy of the Lord and His people because He lets the world (led by Satan) do as it pleases, and yet He shows through His Providence that this rebellion of the world is for naught.

[BIBLEDRB]John 16:33[/BIBLEDRB]

The world, led by Satan, hates us. And yet we, through Christ, are stronger than this rebellion of the world.

[BIBLEDRB]Romans 8:35-39[/BIBLEDRB]

In the RSV, Romans 8:37 reads: “In all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.” Love triumphs over all.

But are we to hate this world? Yes and no. It must be both, because if not, then we cannot save it. As G.K. Chesterton said:

Let us suppose we are confronted with a desperate thing – say Pimlico [NOTE: Pimlico is the center of horse racing and betting of London. In Chesterton’s time it also was one of the centers of crime, and was one of the dirtier parts of the city]. If we think what is really best for Pimlico we shall find the thread of thought leads to the throne or the mystic and the arbitrary. It is not enough for a man to disapprove of Pimlico: in that case he will merely cut his throat or move to Chelsea. Nor, certainly, is it enough for a man to approve of Pimlico: for then it will remain Pimlico, which would be awful. The only way out of it seems to be for somebody to love Pimlico: to love it with a transcendental tie and without any earthly reason. If there arose a man who loved Pimlico, then Pimlico would rise into ivory towers and golden pinnacles; Pimlico would attire herself as a woman does when she is loved. For decoration is not given to hide horrible things: but to decorate things already adorable. A mother does not give her child a blue bow because he is so ugly without it. A lover does not give a girl a necklace to hide her neck. If men loved Pimlico as mothers love children, arbitrarily, because it is theirs, Pimlico in a year or two might be fairer than Florence. Some readers will say that this is a mere fantasy. I answer that this is the actual history of mankind. This, as a fact, is how cities did grow great. Go back to the darkest roots of civilization and you will find them knotted round some sacred stone or encircling some sacred well. People first paid honour to a spot and afterwards gained glory for it. Men did not love Rome because she was great. She was great because they had loved her.

And that what must be our attitude towards the world. We must love the world as it was originally intended by the Lord:

[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 1:31[/BIBLEDRB]

and hate as it has come to be under Satan’s rule. Do you remember what was said in John 3:16?

[BIBLEDRB]John 3:16[/BIBLEDRB]

Under Jesus’ banner, we must fight against the world, for we fight for it.

 

[stevekehl]

This is just my perspective from my personal life.

My earliest memories were of my drunken grandmother pulling me around by the hair at the age of 2 yrs old yelling at me. I grew up with her as my primary caretaker. She was a ‘jeckle and hyde’ drunk, changing moods on a dime, with no seeming rhime or reason to the changes from being sweet to being mean and evil. She physically, emotionally, mentally, and verbally abused me. My dad emotionally abused, verbally abused, and emotionally neglected me. My mom emotionally abused and neglected me, sexually abused me, verbally abused me, and engaged me in ‘emotional incest’ as I got older.

Surprise, surprise…I grew up very messed up. I was a basket case. I got help and whle not ‘all better’ I’m not a wild man out of control risking my life every other night going on drunken binges waking up in towns not knowing how I got there or where I was.

The way I make sense of it is that the experiences I endured, and the learning I sought out as an adult to understand my family and myself…provided me with a unique skillset where I am able to help very distrubed individuals and recognized for my talent in this area (while my co-workers and supervisors (except one) do not know of my history.

So the way I make sense of it is that I endured those terrible times so that I may help others who have endured or are enduring unspeakable abuse and neglect. I am able to establish trusting relationships with very distrubed individuals and help them improve their lot in life.

Do I wish I grew up in a normal home without abuse and was able to get a higher paying job and provide for my family better and not have PTSD and Depression that interfere with my basic and simple day to day functioning in life on a not irregular basis? Heck yes! But that is the way I make sense of, and understand why the things that happened to me happened to me.

That said, I would wish it on no one.

God Bless,
Bill

Bill, that is a great testimony and God bless you and your work. I’ve worked with juvenile felons for 16 years and heard a lot of histories like yours, most, were less terrible than yours, but some worse. It is hard to get those kids to trust anyone,let alone someone like me, two good parents, four kids, nice house, grew up in church. Evil is the price we pay for free will, but you have shown how God can use evil for good. Thanks for sharing.
God Bless again,
Steve