Why do Biblical interpretations by CC take so long?

[guanophore]

I did not receive the NT from the CC but from the early true Christian church.

Yes. The early truch Christian Church is Catholic, just as it is today. Did you not know?

It is good we have the same NT because now you cannot say the NT is erroneous and so give you the license to formulate your own doctrines in contradiction to the NT.

No such claim would be necessary. Since the entire NT was formed by Catholics, for Catholics, about Catholics, nothing in it has ever, or will ever, contradict the Catholic Teaching.

Your statement seems to indicate that you believe there is some desire to formulate doctrines in contradiction. Why do you think that?

Now, you would have to explain your doctrines based on the teachings of the Bible that you claim to be authoritative and anyone who has been called by God would easily know whether the CC teaches the truth or not.

Sorry, but this is not the case. But you did not answer my question. How did you get so hostile to the Catholic church?

From Wikipedia:

Although I consider Wikipedia a questionable source (it can be edited by anyone) I have no arguement with this.

It appears that the books that finally were canonized are those that enjoyed a special status and were utilized both frequently and universally by the church.

I guess you don’t realize they were all Catholic?

 

[Hans_Peter]

The CC did not give the world the Bible. The Bible, as we all know, comprises the OT and NT. The OT [w/out the Apocrypha] was canonized long before the CC came into being. It was canonized at the time of Ezra, the prophet.

Mailman, if the OT canon was established in the time of Ezra, why would the NT writers make such extensive use of the Deuterocanon that (at least mostly) came later? Here is a shortish list (I have seen much longer) of NT references to the Deuterocanon.

In the Gospels:
ScriptureCatholic.com:

Matt. 2:16 - Herod’s decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wis. 11:7 - slaying the holy innocents.

Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus’ statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.

Matt… 7:12 - Jesus’ golden rule “do unto others” is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.

Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus’ statement “you will know them by their fruits” follows Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.

Matt. 9:36 - the people were “like sheep without a shepherd” is same as Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.

Matt. 11:25 - Jesus’ description “Lord of heaven and earth” is the same as Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.

Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus’ reference to the “power of death” and “gates of Hades” references Wisdom 16:13.

Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.

Matt. 24:15 - the “desolating sacrilege” Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.

Matt. 24:16 - let those “flee to the mountains” is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.

Matt. 27:43 - if He is God’s Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18.

Mark 4:5,16-17 - Jesus’ description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.

Mark 9:48 - description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.

Luke 1:42 - Elizabeth’s declaration of Mary’s blessedness above all women follows Uzziah’s declaration in Judith 13:18.

Luke 1:52 - Mary’s magnificat addressing the mighty falling from their thrones and replaced by lowly follows Sirach 10:14.

Luke 2:29 - Simeon’s declaration that he is ready to die after seeing the Child Jesus follows Tobit 11:9.

Luke 13:29 - the Lord’s description of men coming from east and west to rejoice in God follows Baruch 4:37.

Luke 21:24 - Jesus’ usage of “fall by the edge of the sword” follows Sirach 28:18.

Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10 - Luke’s description of the two men in dazzling apparel reminds us of 2 Macc. 3:26.

John 1:3 - all things were made through Him, the Word, follows Wisdom 9:1.

John 3:13 - who has ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven references Baruch 3:29.

John 4:48; Acts 5:12; 15:12; 2 Cor. 12:12 - Jesus’, Luke’s and Paul’s usage of “signs and wonders” follows Wisdom 8:8.

John 5:18 - Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows Wisdom 2:16.

John 6:35-59 - Jesus’ Eucharistic discourse is foreshadowed in Sirach 24:21.

John 10:22 - the identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from 1 Macc. 4:59.

John 10:36 – Jesus accepts the inspiration of Maccabees as He analogizes the Hanukkah consecration to His own consecration to the Father in 1 Macc. 4:36.

John 15:6 - branches that don’t bear fruit and are cut down follows Wis. 4:5 where branches are broken off.

Sorry, this short list is too long to post together.

 

[Hans_Peter]

In the rest of the NT:
ScriptureCatholic.com:

Acts 1:15 - Luke’s reference to the 120 may be a reference to 1 Macc. 3:55 - leaders of tens / restoration of the twelve.

Acts 10:34; Rom. 2:11; Gal. 2:6 - Peter’s and Paul’s statement that God shows no partiality references Sirach 35:12.

Acts 17:29 - description of false gods as like gold and silver made by men follows Wisdom 13:10.

Rom 1:18-25 - Paul’s teaching on the knowledge of the Creator and the ignorance and sin of idolatry follows Wis. 13:1-10.

Rom. 1:20 - specifically, God’s existence being evident in nature follows Wis. 13:1.

Rom. 1:23 - the sin of worshipping mortal man, birds, animals and reptiles follows Wis. 11:15; 12:24-27; 13:10; 14:8.

Rom. 1:24-27 - this idolatry results in all kinds of sexual perversion which follows Wis. 14:12,24-27.

Rom. 4:17 - Abraham is a father of many nations follows Sirach 44:19.

Rom. 5:12 - description of death and sin entering into the world is similar to Wisdom 2:24.

Rom. 9:21 - usage of the potter and the clay, making two kinds of vessels follows Wisdom 15:7.

1 Cor. 2:16 - Paul’s question, “who has known the mind of the Lord?” references Wisdom 9:13.

1 Cor. 6:12-13; 10:23-26 - warning that, while all things are good, beware of gluttony, follows Sirach 36:18 and 37:28-30.

1 Cor. 8:5-6 - Paul acknowledging many “gods” but one Lord follows Wis. 13:3.

1 Cor. 10:1 - Paul’s description of our fathers being under the cloud passing through the sea refers to Wisdom 19:7.

1 Cor. 10:20 - what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God refers to Baruch 4:7.

1 Cor. 15:29 - if no expectation of resurrection, it would be foolish to be baptized on their behalf follows 2 Macc. 12:43-45.

Eph. 1:17 - Paul’s prayer for a “spirit of wisdom” follows the prayer for the spirit of wisdom in Wisdom 7:7.

Eph. 6:14 - Paul describing the breastplate of righteousness is the same as Wis. 5:18. See also Isaiah 59:17 and 1 Thess. 5:8.

Eph. 6:13-17 - in fact, the whole discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield follows Wis. 5:17-20.

1 Tim. 6:15 - Paul’s description of God as Sovereign and King of kings is from 2 Macc. 12:15; 13:4.

2 Tim. 4:8 - Paul’s description of a crown of righteousness is similar to Wisdom 5:16.

Heb. 4:12 - Paul’s description of God’s word as a sword is similar to Wisdom 18:15.

Heb. 11:5 - Enoch being taken up is also referenced in Wis 4:10 and Sir 44:16. See also 2 Kings 2:1-13 & Sir 48:9 regarding Elijah.

Heb 11:35 - Paul teaches about the martyrdom of the mother and her sons described in 2 Macc. 7:1-42.

Heb. 12:12 - the description “drooping hands” and “weak knees” comes from Sirach 25:23.

James 1:19 - let every man be quick to hear and slow to respond follows Sirach 5:11.

James 2:23 - it was reckoned to him as righteousness follows 1 Macc. 2:52 - it was reckoned to him as righteousness.

James 3:13 - James’ instruction to perform works in meekness follows Sirach 3:17.

James 5:3 - describing silver which rusts and laying up treasure follows Sirach 29:10-11.

James 5:6 - condemning and killing the “righteous man” follows Wisdom 2:10-20.

1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter teaches about testing faith by purgatorial fire as described in Wisdom 3:5-6 and Sirach 2:5.

1 Peter 1:17 - God judging each one according to his deeds refers to Sirach 16:12 - God judges man according to his deeds.

2 Peter 2:7 - God’s rescue of a righteous man (Lot) is also described in Wisdom 10:6.

Rev. 1:4 – the seven spirits who are before his throne is taken from Tobit 12:15 – Raphael is one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints before the Holy One.

Rev. 1:18; Matt. 16:18 - power of life over death and gates of Hades follows Wis. 16:13.

Rev. 2:12 - reference to the two-edged sword is similar to the description of God’s Word in Wisdom 18:16.

Rev. 5:7 - God is described as seated on His throne, and this is the same description used in Sirach 1:8.

Rev. 8:3-4 - prayers of the saints presented to God by the hand of an angel follows Tobit 12:12,15.

Rev. 8:7 - raining of hail and fire to the earth follows Wisdom 16:22 and Sirach 39:29.

Rev. 9:3 - raining of locusts on the earth follows Wisdom 16:9.

Rev. 11:19 - the vision of the ark of the covenant (Mary) in a cloud of glory was prophesied in 2 Macc. 2:7.

Rev. 17:14 - description of God as King of kings follows 2 Macc. 13:4.

Rev. 19:1 - the cry “Hallelujah” at the coming of the new Jerusalem follows Tobit 13:18.

Rev. 19:11 - the description of the Lord on a white horse in the heavens follows 2 Macc. 3:25; 11:8.

Rev. 19:16 - description of our Lord as King of kings is taken from 2 Macc. 13:4.

Rev. 21:19 - the description of the new Jerusalem with precious stones is prophesied in Tobit 13:17.

 

[RobbyS]

Interpretation of scriptural verses and books takes a long time because biblical books are not mere ordinary literary pieces. These books have historical significance and embody not only theological truths, but also philosophical as well. The interpretation of scriptures involves philological, archeological and all scientific tools used in order to give accuracy. In effect, interpretation is growing everyday as new discoveries are known on archeological sites, historical incidence, and like which have major bearing on scriptural and theological interpretation.

Say for example, the doctrine of original sin which was taught by Augustine, and which was based on the creation story and the fall of adam and eve. philological and historical studies found out that the creation story is not historical, but rather a story taken from the babylonian epic or myth which was adopted and transformed by the Israelites during their babylonian exile in order to preserve their faith. Now, if a dogma is based merely on the scripture without further historical and scientific discoveries and exploration of biblical truths, then substantive questions on the veracity of faith will be difficult to address. Thus, it is better that biblical text should be made an open for studies and interpretation in order to give room to better and accurate studies and interpretation.

May be more accurate to say, about the Creation stories, that
they demythologize the Babylonian stories, and tell them in an altogether novel way, for the God of the Jews is altogether different from the Babylonian gods, as is His relationship with men.

 

[RobbyS]

In the rest of the NT:

Thanks for the list.

 

[Hans_Peter]

It’s a good list, Robby, though I’ve seen longer, and even better documented such lists, but this one (short as it is) took two posts to fit it all. Then there are the translations in the original Greek (mostly) in the NT that (as I understand it) come from the Septuagint and not from other contemporary translations.

Of course, the answer to the original question is (as others have said) fairly simple:

The Church, having given us the complete Bible (contrary to Mailman’s surely-heartfelt but ahistorical assertions), understands that most passages of the Bible can have multiple applications, and that within and from those multiple applications we are free to choose, so long as those choices don’t contradict, as long as we stand firm with, the [T]raditions handed on to us by word or in writing that the Church (to be clear, that’s the “CC” for some of you) has held to since the beginning. (Or try here, if you prefer.)

 

[muskieman]

Don’t put words into my mouth. I never said the CC was guided by the Holy Spirit to compile the Bible. I did not even say that the CC compiled the Bible. The CC compiled the wrong writings to make up their Bible. Remember, the CC’s Bible include the Apocryphal writings? The CC was the only VISIBLE church [visible to the general public] that canonized the NT.
Do you mean to tell me that the church guided by the Holy Spirit has no understanding of the Scriptures? Give me a break!

Given that the founder of the CC was Jesus and the founder of your church was ? I like our chances that the Holy Spirit inspired the CC bible. Yours…not to sure!

 

[Hans_Peter]

Two more examples of the canonicity of the Deuterocanonical books:

In his ‘Open Line - Wednesday’ program from yesterday (November 12, so it’s still available online to listen to or download), Fr. Mitch Pacwa, SJ mentioned two significant NT citations of the Deuterocanon.

Jesus cited the Deuterocanon:

In Luke 12, Jesus tells the parable of the rich man who says to himself, “Now as for you, you have so many good things stored up for many years, rest, eat, drink, be merry!” That is an echo of the rich man in Sirach 11 who says to himself, “I have found rest, now I will feast on my possessions.]” In both cases, the text says that they will die and leave their possessions to others.

The leaders of the Jews repeated texts from the Deuterocanon at Jesus’ crucifiction:

At the crucifixion as described in Matthew 27 (vel sim.) the passersby, chief priests, scribes, and elders mock Jesus, and the words they use are predicted in Wisdom 2. (Which is cited above.)

Both Sirach and Wisdom were removed from the Bible by Martin Luther and from the 1627 edition of the KJV.

 

[Crumpy]

Why does it take so long for the Magesterium of CC to give interpretations of Biblical verses. As I understand it there are only a handful of verses that are officially interpreted. If this rate of say 5vs/2000yrs stays the same, the NT (with ~8000 verses) might be fully interpreted by ~AD 3.2 million Not that I’m impatient or anything but can’t the Holy Spirit speed things up?

Haven’t read all the posts, but hang on a bit, ok?

The Church has been around for 2000 years, and one of the things it does is look at all the previous interpretations over time. We wouldn’t want them to fundamentally change, would we?

The CC or any Christian group would be busy for a long time writing and revising a complete interpretation of scripture, and nobody has finished such a thing to my knowledge.

The meaning of scripture is sometimes hidden to us, like the date of the end of the world. And, it’s very mystery is what draws us into the Bible, not for speculation, but to draw us closer to God.

On any major essential issue, the Catechism of the Catholic Church offers a lot of help. But, it is not a commentary per se.