Why do Byzantines put the Eucharistic bread in the wine?

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Does anyone have any information on the dogma of the Orthodox and/or Eastern Catholic Eucharist pertaining to the mixing of the Body and Blood? I want to know why they put the bread in the wine. Thanks.
 
mikeeh said:
Does anyone have any information on the dogma of the Orthodox and/or Eastern Catholic Eucharist pertaining to the mixing of the Body and Blood? I want to know why they put the bread in the wine. Thanks.
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Interesting question! At the celebration of the Eucharist a bit of the Body is also added to the Blood. I wonder if the reason is the same?
 
mikeeh said:
Does anyone have any information on the dogma of the Orthodox and/or Eastern Catholic Eucharist pertaining to the mixing of the Body and Blood? I want to know why they put the bread in the wine. Thanks.
Click to expand...
This is not always done in all eastern liturgies, for example, for some, in the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts no wine is added and only the one species is reserved from Sunday.
 
Celtic_Maiden said:
I think that its called Communion by tincture.
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I can’t speak for the OP, but I was not referring to tincture. During the consecration, the priest drops a fraction of the large host he has blessed into the chalice.
Commingling
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(Priest) May the mingling of the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, bring eternal life
to us who receive it.
(Priest drops a particle of the Host in the Chalice)
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When the fraction is completed, the celebrant breaks off a small fragment of the Host with his right hand and reverently places it in the chalice, saying quietly, “May this mingling . . .”, while his left hand rests on the corporal. This fragment is taken from the lower part of the left portion of a conventional Host. If a pall is used, it is removed for the commingling and then replaced on the chalice (by the deacon).
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Vico said:
This is not always done in all eastern liturgies, for example, for some, in the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts no wine is added and only the one species is reserved from Sunday.
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Actually, from orthodoxwiki.org/Liturgy_of_the_Presanctified_Gifts :

“The communion bread has already been consecrated and intincted with the precious Blood and reserved at the previous Sunday’s Divine Liturgy. Unconsecrated wine is placed in the chalice. Local practice also varies as to whether or not this wine must be thought of as the Blood of Christ. The only practical effect of this variety is that the celebrant who must consume all the undistributed communion at the end of the service might or might not partake of the chalice when he communes himself.”

And from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Liturgy_of_the_Presanctified_Gifts :

"Those portions of the reserved Lamb which will be used to give communion to the faithful are placed in unconsecrated wine in the chalice. "

In other words, they do add wine, and some even see it as the Blood of Christ. I’d think that’s because it has been mixed with the Body of Christ (and Blood, since the Body was intincted during the Divine Liturgy), but that’s just a guess.
 
chefmomster2 said:
I can’t speak for the OP, but I was not referring to tincture. During the consecration, the priest drops a fraction of the large host he has blessed into the chalice.
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That is called the fraction rite. All Apostolic liturgies have a fraction rite (the Syriac fraction is the most complex). But to understand why there’s the commingling of the body and blood one must remember it is not just Eucharistic “bread” but body and blood. Body and blood do not exist separately but together so it only makes sense to combine them (I assume the Roman Rite use to intinct prior to the removal of lay reception of the chalice which led to the divorce of the species and the idea that its “sufficient” to receive them separately).

Now, in addition to being logical, there are certain theological values ascribed to commingling. John of Dara actually wrote an excellent liturgical commentary in which he mentions the Syriac fraction (specifically, since he himself was Syriac) in great detail. First the sanctuary veil closes because God placed a veil in from of the eyes of angels because they wouldn’t be able to bear seeing their Lord fractured on the Cross. Then he goes into detail of the actual treatment of the host - I don’t remember it in detail since it’s a very intricate description but, for instance, John remarks how [for example] placing the fractioned piece into the chalice is Christ’s descent into Sheol.
 
If the OP is referring to the bit of the body being mixed with the blood and not to the Orthodox method of giving communion to the faithful, then such a mixture occurs in the Latin Rite as well.
 
Actually, this is allowed in the Roman Rite. And talked about a little bit in Chapter 4 of the GIRM

GIRM 245 says the below:
  1. The Blood of the Lord may be consumed either by drinking from the chalice directly, or by intinction, or by means of a tube or a spoon.
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However, we typically receive them separately.

GIRM 249 says:
  1. If the concelebrants’ Communion is by intinction, the principal cele-brant partakes of the Body and Blood of the Lord in the usual way, but making sure that enough of the precious Blood remains in the chalice for the Communion of the concelebrants. Then the Deacon, or one of the concelebrants, arranges the chalice together with the paten containing particles of the host, if appropriate, either in the center of the altar or at the side on another corporal.
    The concelebrants approach the altar one by one, genuflect, and take a particle, intinct it partly into the chalice, and, holding a purificator under their mouth, consume the intincted particle. They then return to their places as at the beginning of Mass.
    The Deacon also receives Communion by intinction and to the concelebrant’s words, Corpus et Sanguis Christi (The Body and Blood of Christ) replies, Amen. Moreover, the Deacon consumes at the altar all that remains of the Precious Blood, assisted, if the case requires, by some of the concele-brants. He carries the chalice to the credence table and there he or a duly instituted acolyte purifies it, wipes it, and arranges it as usual.
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GIRM 287 says
  1. If Communion from the chalice is carried out by intinction, each communicant, holding a Communion-plate under the mouth, approaches the Priest who holds a vessel with the sacred particles, with a minister standing at his side and holding the chalice. The Priest takes a host, intincts it partly in the chalice and, showing it, says, The Body and Blood of Christ. The communicant replies, Amen, receives the Sacrament in the mouth from the Priest, and then withdraws.
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Link to Chapter 4 of the GIRM used in the US is: usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/general-instruction-of-the-roman-missal/girm-chapter-4.cfm

Hope this helps and God Bless
 
Thank you to whoever changed my title. I wasn’t sure how to word it all. I’ve gone to a Byzantine Rite Mass and I was sure a few other rites and Orthodox Churches do the same thing.
PietroPaolo said:
To avoid CITH 😉
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What’s CITH?
Vico said:
This is not always done in all eastern liturgies, for example, for some, in the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts no wine is added and only the one species is reserved from Sunday.
Click to expand...
I knew some administrated the Eucharist in that manner, but I wasn’t sure if all did.

Thank you for all who replied. Interesting stuff. But does anyone know why it’s done it that manner. I was reading Luke and I started to wonder if it had anything to do with Judas. Judas was the one who had the bread dipped in the wine. So I thought maybe it’s meant to symbolize how we betray Jesus when we sin, but like Judas who returned the silver, we too seek to repent.
 
Vico said:
This is not always done in all eastern liturgies, for example, for some, in the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts no wine is added and only the one species is reserved from Sunday.
Click to expand...
Actually, unconsecrated wine is added to the reserved Precious Body before communing the faithful at presanctified. At least, every time I’ve received at presanctified, that’s how it’s been done.

Further, in many jurisdictions, the Lamb to be reserved for the presanctified is intincted with the precious blood just before the people’s communion at the liturgy where it was consecrated.

Why Intinction? It symbolically completes the union of Body and Blood that exists on a spiritual level in either species. The Eucharist is the source and summit of our lives, but it also serves as a symbol. It is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord made manifest, and the symbolic union of Body and Blood is a reminder of what we receive.
 
Aramis said:
Actually, unconsecrated wine is added to the reserved Precious Body before communing the faithful at presanctified. At least, every time I’ve received at presanctified, that’s how it’s been done.

Further, in many jurisdictions, the Lamb to be reserved for the presanctified is intincted with the precious blood just before the people’s communion at the liturgy where it was consecrated.

Why Intinction? It symbolically completes the union of Body and Blood that exists on a spiritual level in either species. The Eucharist is the source and summit of our lives, but it also serves as a symbol. It is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord made manifest, and the symbolic union of Body and Blood is a reminder of what we receive.
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The practices do seem to vary by Byzantine parish. Our priest has not been touching the Body with the Blood before it is reserved, and he does not reserve the Blood. Since there is no reserved Blood a few of our faithful, would be communicants who are gluten sensitive cannot receive at the Presanctified. The rubrics for the Presanctified say: “He then drops the portion stamped, “IC” into the chalice, saying nothing, for the wine is not consecrated.” The instructions for reserving the Lambs that have been consecrated for use at the Presanctified have no mention of intincting with the Precious Blood, so it not the norm in the Passaic 1998 edition.
 
As FYI - Father received the Body and Blood via intinction for himself today.
 
mikeeh said:
Does anyone have any information on the dogma of the Orthodox and/or Eastern Catholic Eucharist pertaining to the mixing of the Body and Blood? I want to know why they put the bread in the wine. Thanks.
Click to expand...
I’m not someone who likes to get caught up in word fighting but you might want to rephrase this question and not use the words bread and wine but instead say Body and Blood 😉
 
mikeeh said:
Thank you to whoever changed my title. I wasn’t sure how to word it all. I’ve gone to a Byzantine Rite Mass and I was sure a few other rites and Orthodox Churches do the same thing.

What’s CITH?

I knew some administrated the Eucharist in that manner, but I wasn’t sure if all did.

Thank you for all who replied. Interesting stuff. But does anyone know why it’s done it that manner. I was reading Luke and I started to wonder if it had anything to do with Judas. Judas was the one who had the bread dipped in the wine. So I thought maybe it’s meant to symbolize how we betray Jesus when we sin, but like Judas who returned the silver, we too seek to repent.
Click to expand...
The Scriptures do not say Judas dipped his bread in wine. They say that he dipped it in the same dish or bowl as Jesus. The wine was in the cups. The bread may have been dipped in olive oil or some other food prepared for the Passover.
 
mikeeh said:
Does anyone have any information on the dogma of the Orthodox and/or Eastern Catholic Eucharist pertaining to the mixing of the Body and Blood? I want to know why they put the bread in the wine. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Probably it is a very practical solution in administering both the Body and Blood of our Common Lord. In any Divine Liturgy there is the same amount of wine used. Since the bread and wine are consecrated separately therefore it is the discretion of the priest to put whatever consecrated bread into the chalice that has the consecrated wine. This ability of the Eastern Orthodox when celebrating their Holy Communion makes it very easy to use the same amount of wine in every Liturgy. For instance in the Catholic Church can you imagine what would happen if the Catholic Church decided to give out the consecrated wine as well. You would have to consecrate with a lot more chalices. In one Church which had celebrated Midnight Mass the priest needed 5 chalices to administer to those who had come to the Christmas Mass. Any Catholic parish that had over 1000 people would have too many chalices to try to administer to the faithful. That other parish that needed 5 chalices were for only 300 communicants. I believe the Holy Spirit just guided the Orthodox Church to a more practical solution in administering Holy Communion with both species.
 
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