Why do catholics believe in purgatory?

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MichaelHowling said:
I think:

It’s coming face to face with the love of your life and soul. ALL truth, all good…and it peers right through you and you are aware of your weaknesses, your faults, your failings in this gaze between you and God…and the realization of how much he provided for you, loved you, and what hopes he had in you. I think purgatory is the first (the first in an eternity of them…which is why I bet we NEVER sin after death because we don’t want to at that point)…purgatory is the first moment of realization of all of this!

And it’s going to be painful and purifying…But a joyful moment in that pain and purifying moment.
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That makes sence. We basically leave behind everything human about us, all of the desires and temptations so that all is left is our soul.
 
Be careful.

We don’t become less human…we become: more human.

In that our desires and such aren’t done away with or destroyed…they are fully redeemed. Everything including our desires will be ordered rightly (like they were from the beginning)…by that encounter with pure love and truth.
 
Cak7711 said:
Purgatory is actually starting to make sence to me now. For lack of a better term, it is like taking a shower before going into heaven. It isn’t a place but a concept were your soul is purified from all sin and the desire to sin so you can stand before God. Someone tell me if I am close.
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I picture it in a similar way. A cleansing and purifying flame that burns through our souls and clears out every imperfection. A flame of Love and Promise and Hope. As if the gold in us is being purified of the ore, as every imperfection is made perfect. And being made perfect then by God’s Love, glorified, we can then enter into the full glory of God. 👍
 
Cak7711 said:
Thanks for the versus, they helped a lot. I think you answered my question, thanks.
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We are all invited to the Father’s banquet, which is being held in His house. His son has unlocked the gates, but we still need to get there by ourselves, by cooperating with God’s grace. No sin is alllowed in God’s house, yet we all die with some level of sin on our souls. Some imperfect repentance; some debt owed to the Body of Christ, against Whom we have sinned. Even if we are forgiven, we have still done damage. We must make amends for that damage, as that damage is the stain on our souls - the mud that clings to our spirits at death. Purgatory is God’s mud room, where we are cleaned up before we may enter the house and sit at the Master’s table.

Jesus spoke of it in a parable:

Matthew 5:25-26
Knox Bible (KNOX)
25 If any man has a claim against thee, come to terms there and then, while thou art walking in the road with him; or else it may be that the claimant will hand thee over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and so thou wilt be cast into prison. 26 Believe me, thou shalt not be set at liberty until thou hast paid the last farthing.

Luke 12:58-59
Knox Bible (KNOX)
58 If one has a claim against thee, and thou art going with him to the magistrate, then do thy utmost, while thou art still on the road, to be quit of his claim; or it may be he will drag thee into the presence of the judge, and the judge will hand thee over to his officer, and the officer will cast thee into prison. 59 Be sure of this, thou wilt find no discharge from it until thou hast paid the last farthing.

The parable refers to men having a claim against us. What if God has a claim against us? Remember that it is His Holy Spirit that convicts us of sin.

Paul also wrote of it:

I Corinthians 3:11-15
Knox Bible (KNOX)
11 The foundation which has been laid is the only one which anybody can lay; I mean Jesus Christ. 12 But on this foundation different men will build in gold, silver, precious stones, wood, grass, or straw, 13 and each man’s workmanship will be plainly seen. It is the day of the Lord that will disclose it, since that day is to reveal itself in fire, and fire will test the quality of each man’s workmanship. 14 He will receive a reward, if the building he has added on stands firm; 15 if it is burnt up, he will be the loser; and yet he himself will be saved, though only as men are saved by passing through fire.[a]

Footnotes:

I Corinthians 3:15 vv. 10-15: In its immediate reference, this passage seems to imply that we cannot decide yet how much good the influence of any Christian teacher (e.g. Apollo) has done; it is only at the last day that such things will be made known to us. (Cf. 4.5 below.) But it has always been understood as having a wider application; each one of us is building upon the foundation of Christian faith which has been laid in him, and the merits or demerits of his building will be made known only at his judgement. At the same time, we are to recognize that many whose actions in this world have had little value, will themselves escape condemnation, though only by passing through the fires of Purgatory.
 
john78 said:
I am Catholic an I do not get it either, just seems like another hoop to jump through because we can never be good enough, which is true, yet some how we are deemed worthy to receive Christ in the Eucharist if we are at first in communion with the Church through the sacrament of Reconciliation, yet even though Christ died for our sins an for us on the Cross thus bridging the gap and destroying death an sin, ( though I cant seem to figure out if it was just sin in general that was destroyed or original sin or perhaps neither ) still not enough , so thus we have Reconciliation, which I am not knocking it is a needed sacrament.

BUT, seems there is always a " but " in Catholicism even with what Christ has done for our salvation and even though we have the sacrament of reconciliation, and even though some how we are worthy enough in human form to receive Christ in the Eucharist, we get, woops hold on a second, now you get to go to purgatory.

so evidently it seems for those who some how manage perfection here on earth get to automatically go to heaven once they die, but for the rest of us we have purgatory.

so it isn’t as I was taught growing up, be a faithful catholic, be everything you can be that is good for God, repent an accept Christ, and you will go to heaven, nope now there is the hurdle of purgatory.

I for one do not believe in purgatory taking a few snippets out of scripture to thus spin it into a concept for another step to take before heaven seems a bit odd, especially considering Christ never said , repent , believe in me an ye shall go to purgatory.
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One of the fundamental Catholic beliefs is that Christ teaches us through His Church. He and His Church are in union, so the Catholic Church is infallible when teaching on faith and morals. So yes Christ does reveal to us, without any doubt whatsoever, that Purgatory is real.

Since God is infinitely smarter than we are, we are called to believe what He teaches us, through His Church. It is good to ask questions, but not to be sarcastic about Catholic teaching or to rely on our own limited powers of reasoning to try to overthrow what God has revealed. That would be a grave sin. Rather, we are called to study, ask questions, and humbly submit our intellect to God’s truth, even if we don’t really understand all the “whys”. If we study with an open mind, we do eventually understand. I encourage Catholics to read the Cathechism and other good Catholic sources, on this or any Catholic teaching that they have difficulty with.

Purgatory exists: we know because God revealed it to us. Catholics are required to believe this teaching.
 
Cak7711 said:
Purgatory is actually starting to make sence to me now. For lack of a better term, it is like taking a shower before going into heaven. It isn’t a place but a concept were your soul is purified from all sin and the desire to sin so you can stand before God. Someone tell me if I am close.
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That’s about right. I’ve also heard it described as the room where the Bride gets ready before the marriage. Because of the way it is described in Corinthians, as fire burning away impurities, alot of theologians have thought of it as a pretty miserable place. The way I see it is, if you are there you already know you are saved, so it can’t be that bad!
 
john78 said:
some how we are worthy enough in human form to receive Christ in the Eucharist, we get, woops hold on a second, now you get to go to purgatory.

so evidently it seems for those who some how manage perfection here on earth get to automatically go to heaven once they die, but for the rest of us we have purgatory.

.
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It seems to me that everytime we recieve the Eucharist we say, “Lord I am NOT worthy to recieve you, but only say the word and my soul shall be HEALED.” I think the healing takes place in purgatory.

As far as I know, the only person we know who got to go directly to heaven without purgatory is Our Blessed Mother who never sinned.
 
I don’t think anyone has yet mentioned the reference to Purgatory in 1 Peter:

[1 Peter]
{3:18} For Christ also died once for our sins, the Just One on behalf of the unjust, so that he might offer us to God, having died, certainly, in the flesh, but having been enlivened by the Spirit.
{3:19} And in the Spirit, he preached to those who were in prison, going to those souls
{3:20} who had been unbelieving in past times, while they waited for the patience of God, as in the days of Noah, when the ark was being built. In that ark, a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.

Pope John Paul II, speaking about Psalm 23 (24), interprets this passage as referring to Purgatory, and specifically to the limbo (fringe) of Purgatory called the limbo of the Fathers. For Purgatory is analogous to a prison.

“The triumphal scene, described by the Psalm in the third poetic picture, has been applied by the Christian liturgy of the East and of the West to the victorious Descent of Christ to the Limbo of the fathers, spoken of in the First Letter of Peter (cf. 1 Peter 3:19)…” [General Audience of 20 June 2001]

Jesus visited Purgatory between His death and His Resurrection.
 
Cak7711 said:
I get purgatory as in the Old Testament, but I don’t quite understand how it applies to Christians today. It seems to me that the New Testament would void purgatory through the new covenant. In the old testiment being saved was very complex. You had to do many things like making certain sacrifices to be forgive. So I can understand where purgatory would come into play. But know that we have Christ being saved is very simple. Believe in Christ, get baptized, and repent of your sins and you will be saved. If you don’t you go to hell. So I just don’t see where purgatory comes into play, or what use we would have of it today since we have Christ. I’m considering converting to Catholicism so any information you could provide to help me understand this doctrine would be much apresiated.
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Both the Old and New Testaments speak of
Purgatory very clearly, as this link will show:
scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html
 
Ron_Conte said:
I don’t think anyone has yet mentioned the reference to Purgatory in 1 Peter:

[1 Peter]
{3:18} For Christ also died once for our sins, the Just One on behalf of the unjust, so that he might offer us to God, having died, certainly, in the flesh, but having been enlivened by the Spirit.
{3:19} And in the Spirit, he preached to those who were in prison, going to those souls
{3:20} who had been unbelieving in past times, while they waited for the patience of God, as in the days of Noah, when the ark was being built. In that ark, a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.

Pope John Paul II, speaking about Psalm 23 (24), interprets this passage as referring to Purgatory, and specifically to the limbo (fringe) of Purgatory called the limbo of the Fathers. For Purgatory is analogous to a prison.

“The triumphal scene, described by the Psalm in the third poetic picture, has been applied by the Christian liturgy of the East and of the West to the victorious Descent of Christ to the Limbo of the fathers, spoken of in the First Letter of Peter (cf. 1 Peter 3:19)…” [General Audience of 20 June 2001]

Jesus visited Purgatory between His death and His Resurrection.
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The parable of Lazarus and the rich man, with Lazarus being comforted at the bosom of Abraham indicates the state after death of those who died before our Lord ascended. They were imprisoned there until Jesus descended to them and preached the Gospel to them. Yet, this was while the gates of heaven were yet closed. So the state of purgatory may indeed be different in some aspect from this spirit prison.

A reference for those reading this thread, the following is from the catechism:

III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY

1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608
1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611

606 Cf. Council of Florence (1439): DS 1304; Council of Trent (1563): DS 1820; (1547):1580; see also Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336): DS 1000.
607 Cf. 1 Cor 3:15; 1 Pet 1:7.
608 St. Gregory the Great, Dial. 4,39:PL 77,396; cf. Mt 12:31.
609 2 Macc 12:46.
610 Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 856.
611 St. John Chrysostom, Hom. in 1 Cor. 41,5:PG 61,361; cf. Job 1:5.
 
Another way of looking at purgatory is that it begins with our early life. It is a purgation of all that is not pleasing to God. If we have not purged ourselves of all that we cling to in this life that is not God, then we must do it in a place called purgatory.
If we look at the philosophical side we see that God is all good in a nature that we cannot understand. He is total goodness so much that nothing which is not good cannot be around Him. It is the beatific vision of Him that goodness allows us to see.
It is a cleansing but much more. It is to give up all that does not allow us to be in union with God and to cast off the things that we desire more than God. That is our purgatory.
 
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