Why do Catholics believe Mary is a "virgin"?

[GTNJNightingale]

The primary question that was debated in the thread was Mary’s perpetual virginity. Protestants with limited contact to Catholicism, such as myself, wanted to better understand the argument for this. A number of people kindly replied giving me and others answers such as information on the oral history of the Catholic church. I don’t think that there were any doubts regarding Mary’s virginity at the conception and birth of Jesus.

my point is why is it so important about her having relations with her husband or not…after the birth of Jesus/// why does it really matter . it isnt central to Jesus it is something tthat is not Crutial to anything…??? why does it really matter?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

my point is why is it so important about her having relations with her husband or not…after the birth of Jesus/// why does it really matter . it isnt central to Jesus it is something tthat is not Crutial to anything…??? why does it really matter?

Actually, it is central. It is an authentic Christian teaching (and was so taught to the entire Christian world for 1600 years before some MEN changed the teaching).

ALL ‘points’ about Mary relate to Jesus. Every single one. So if there is a teaching about Mary in Christianity, it is ‘there’ because it relates to Jesus.

So casting doubts and aspersions on “Marian” teachings are actually casting aspersions and doubts on “JESUS” teachings.

In essence, it comes down to truth and falsehood. If something is truth, then it MATTERS no matter how ‘little’ it seems. In fact, the teachings on Mary since they are central to who JESUS is are not ‘little’. But even if they were ‘little’, if they are true, then they are as important as any other truth.

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

HELLO IT IS SCRIPTURE THAT MARY IS A VIRGIN…YOU DONT NEED TO BE EXTERAMLY FAMILIAR WITH SCRIPTURE TO KNOW THAT …IF YOU CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT … if you have ever heard the story of Jesus and his birth and his conception you should know that it is IN FACT SCRIPTURE THAT MARY WAS A VIRGIN!!! HERE ARE SOME trusty lil scripture verses for you

Mary’s virginity before the birth of Jesus is well attested to in Sacred Scripture. The prophecy of Isaiah 7:14 states: “Behold a virgin shall conceive…a Son.” Likewise in the Gospel of St. Luke, the Angel Gabriel was sent by God “to a virgin…and the virgin’s name was Mary” (Lk 1:27). In the dialogue between the Angel Gabriel and Mary we have a further confirmation of Mary’s virginity before the birth of Jesus. Gabriel announces: “You will conceive in your womb and bear a Son” (Lk 1:31). Mary responds: “How will this be since I know not man?” (Lk 1:34). To “know” in this scriptural context is a reference to sexual intercourse. The Angel Gabriel responds: “The Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you” (Lk 1:35).

“Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son.”

[SIGN][/SIGif thats [SIGN]not enough !!! then i sugest you N]get familliar with the bible

[/SIGN]

Are you speaking to me

 

[rinnie]

my point is why is it so important about her having relations with her husband or not…after the birth of Jesus/// why does it really matter . it isnt central to Jesus it is something tthat is not Crutial to anything…??? why does it really matter?

Well if I may, I believe it matters alot. Simply because we use Mary as the perfect example of being faithful to God. Body and Soul.

Since Mary was a child she spend hours in prayer Mary promised herself to God and was send from God to do his work.

Why it matters to me is because she honored her God and obyed him and did not have a relationship with a man and kept herself pure for God body and soul and that should be treated with great respect.

How can we sit back and let people slander the name of the Mother of God. No I will not sit back and let others do this.

Just like people are starting now to slander God himself, and say he was really married etc. Garbage like these lies belong in one place. In the trash. It is so sad how people get great Joy our of slandering of others. But when it is said about God the Almighty and the Queen of Heaven and Earth that makes me worse then sad it makes me angry.

May God have mercy on all of their souls, and forgive them for the horrible things they say.

 

[vsedriver]

my point is why is it so important about her having relations with her husband or not…after the birth of Jesus/// why does it really matter . it isnt central to Jesus it is something tthat is not Crutial to anything…??? why does it really matter?

it is essential to understanding who Jesus is.

If Mary, at any time, had relations with Joseph it casts doubt on who the father of Jesus really is.

 

[GaryTaylor]

God sends an angel to you, and you in turn bear God though the Word of God becoming flesh.

Where does having sex with your husband who also received a Vision from God about the situation of Christ born fresh play into this? .

And then they watch it unfold in real time just as Gods messanger foretold. And they are covered by Gods hand the entire time in protecting Jesus. Flight to Egypt. Herod, etc.

Where does having sex come into this except in someones deranged mind?

You simply have to explain this because it certainly isn’t Biblical, and being this is the Holy Family we are talking about, and consecrated Souls to Jesus Christ are not a mystery today or in history I see it as very normal and logical.

How do you conclude the Saints, Priest, Sisters manage this, but Joesph and Mary fail? Its not even Christian never mind non Biblical.

I’ve seen souls here on earth today who lived sexually immoral lives, changed their life in Church, claim to have a vision or touched by the Holy Spirit, and then live in chasity for years. This just isn’t uncommon in Gods spiritual realm. Never mind speaking about the Holy Family. The Blessed Virgin Mother your talking about here. Full of Grace, who found Favor with the Lord. You know anyone like that?

God Bless, Gary

 

[JonNC]

Honestly, I don’t get what’s some people dislike or find hard to accept concerning this doctrine from a Christian perspective. I remember that I was absolutely shocked when I actually first heard anyone speak against it when I was around twelve or thirteen. I had never really thought of it even being a question that she was perpetually virginal until that time because I had never heard anyone question it. I mean, she’s the VIRGIN Mary! I just couldn’t understand how a “Christian” could question her purity. It made no sense to me then and it still makes no sense to me now…

May I suggest, to answer your question, that some don’t see it from a Christian perspective, by that I mean they do not see it as Christocentric. They don’t see her remaining a virgin after christ’s birth as necessary in terms of the message of Christ.
In other words, if one views sempre virgo as honoring and centered on Christ, not honoring or centered on the Blessed Virgin, then one gains a new perspective on the teaching.

This is why it is odd to me personally that more Lutherans don’t accept the teaching, as the Lutheran Confessions mention the belief under the section - “The Person of Christ”.
Sempre virgo is a Christ-centered teaching.

Jon

 

[jmcrae]

WHAT IN THE HECK does it matter if mary was a virgin her “WHOLE” life any way we dont call her the virgin mary based on wether or weather not she remained a virgin her whole life.

Actually, yes we do - if she had not been a virgin at the time of her death, she would not have received the title of Virgin. There were many Holy Virgins in the Early Church, and Mary was pre-eminent among them, but not the only one. She was called the Queen of the Virgins because the Virgins looked to her for their example and role model.

But nobody was called a Holy Virgin who was not actually a virgin at the time of their death.

 

[chuckfrmvalyfrg]

GTNJNightengale,
Please refer to my post #367. As a consecrated virgin in the Temple , Mary was pledged to a life of perpetual virginity . Of course Mary married Joseph . At the age of 12-13 it was usual and customary for these consecrated virgins to be married to an honorable , upright older man ( frequently widowers ) , who would respect his wife’s vow of perpetual virginity . These consecrated virgins were expected to be perpetual virgins and be married and serve in the Temple . This custom seems strange to modern sensibilities , but that’s not the point . So when you say that Mary had sex with Joseph , you are saying she broke her vow to God . Is that what you want to say ?
Put another way , if Mary had never been the mother of God and married Joseph , she still would have been expected to keep ,her vow of perpetual virginity and so would Joseph . This is how Jews cared for their Temple consecrated virgins . I hope this helps .

 

[chuckfrmvalyfrg]

ClamDigger,
Thanks for your reply to my post #367 . My question is , is the James of the Protoevagelium whose identity I inquired about the James known as " James the Lesser " ? I ask because I thought they weren’t the same person . Can anyone help ? Thanks .

 

[jmcrae]

ClamDigger,
Thanks for your reply to my post #367 . My question is , is the James of the Protoevagelium whose identity I inquired about the James known as " James the Lesser " ? I ask because I thought they weren’t the same person . Can anyone help ? Thanks .

James the Less would have had to be at least 98 years old in 120 AD, and that’s if he was a a 12 year old in 33 AD - which I consider extremely unlikely. Tradition tells us that John was the youngest, and we know that he died of extreme old age in 95 AD.

So, the James who wrote the Protoevangelium has to be someone else - a second generation Christian, and probably a follower of John.

 

[chuckfrmvalyfrg]

jmcrae,
Thanks for your response . That’s why I asked the question . I new John was the youngest Apostle and I didn’t think James the Less was an Apostle , but rather one of Christ’s first generation disciples . I too thought that the James of the Protoevangelium was a disciple of John the Apostle ( who took care of Mary ) and could have reasonably came by knowledge of Mary from his association with John . Any other help ?

 

[jmcrae]

jmcrae,
Thanks for your response . That’s why I asked the question . I new John was the youngest Apostle and I didn’t think James the Less was an Apostle , but rather one of Christ’s first generation disciples.

No, James the Less is the brother of Thaddeus (aka Jude); these were the Alphaeus brothers. They are listed as Apostles in Matthew’s Gospel.

I too thought that the James of the Protoevangelium was a disciple of John the Apostle ( who took care of Mary ) and could have reasonably came by knowledge of Mary from his association with John . Any other help?

Not from me; that’s all I’ve got.

 

[DElias]

my point is why is it so important about her having relations with her husband or not…after the birth of Jesus/// why does it really matter . it isnt central to Jesus it is something tthat is not Crutial to anything…??? why does it really matter?

I, like many others who were not raised Catholic, only wonder about perpetual virginity as Mary was married. Our confusion comes with the consummation of marriage which is mentioned both in the Old and New Testaments. It is different than most Protestant teachings and yet very central to Catholic doctrine. The question arose to attain clarity on the issue to which, as I had mentioned before, many Catholics were kind enough to help by contributing answers on the subject.

 

[ClamDigger]

WHAT IN THE HECK does it matter if mary was a virgin her “WHOLE” life any way we dont call her the virgin mary based on wether or weather not she remained a virgin her whole life. we call her the virgin mary because she BORE A SON…our lord for that matter in HER VIRGINITY!!! Meaning she was a virgin when our lord was concieved in her womb.!!! THATS WHAT THE title or name VIRGIN MARY refers to! Weather she was a virgin after that or not really doesnt even matter. She still conieved a son out of her virgininty!!!
Okay… well, I was a virgin before I had sex. I guess it’s okay to call me a virgin now.
Also, WHAT IN THE HECK does it matter if (uncapitalized) jesus was a virgin his “WHOLE” life any way?
I love how the same Christians who accuse us of “contemplating Mary’s sex life too much” are the same ones who freak out over The DaVinci Code and the like. Apparently, Mary’s “sex life” is off limits, but Jesus’ isn’t. What a joke.
GTNJNightingale;7815079:

Lets not forget she was married to joseph blessed by god !!! If she wanted to have relations with that man she could do so and not be commiting a sin!!! Why does everyone care so much about the fact of did she have sex after or did she not have sex after…blah blah blah. It really isnt that important and thats why the bible doesnt make it real clear!!! It is none of our buisness if she had sex with her husband or not!!! What is important is that she was free from sin , had not known a man …(been a virgin) and carried our lord in her womb… That is what is important…hence the virgin mary!!! Can any of you do that! No i dont think so…TO FIDDLE OVER THESE LITTLE THING ARE SO PETTY AND FRANKLY DISRESPECTFULL! YOU DONT GO AROUND ASKING EVERYONE…DO YOU HAVE SEX WITH YOUR HUSBAND!!! BECAUSE IT ISNT OUR BUISNESS!!!

Why would a woman who is about to be married in a few months question how she would conceive a child? That makes no sense. Any woman who intended to have sexual relations at any point in her life would never ask a messenger, who told her that she will bear a son, how that son would be conceived. Mary always intended to remain a virgin. Period.
Also, just a side note, why are you typing in all caps and not capitalizing the names of God and Mary? Do you not know the rules of capitalization?

 

[rev_kevin]

I have heard all the arguments for and against Mary being a virgin all her life and for the love of me I don’t see where she remained a virgin.

Yes she was a virgin when she concieved Jesus but to say she remained a virgin after that is very doubtful. There is no Scriptural evidence that she remained a virgin.

The question was asked "Why would a woman who is about to be married in a few months question how she would conceive a child? That makes no sense. Any woman who intended to have sexual relations at any point in her life would never ask a messenger, who told her that she will bear a son, how that son would be conceived. Mary always intended to remain a virgin. Period. "

In Luke 1:34 Mary said to the angel “How can this be, when I have no husband?”
In some translations it says “How can I have a baby? I am a virgin.” or “How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?”
Here Mary is saying, “I have not had sex yet so there is no way I can have a baby until I have a husband.” And besides we don’t know that that were her exact words.

In Matthew 1:25 it says Joseph “knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son;” or “she remained a virgin until her son was born.” or “He did not live with her as a husband until she had had a son.”
This verse strongly suggests that they had sexual relations after Jesus was born.

 

[ClamDigger]

my point is why is it so important about her having relations with her husband or not…after the birth of Jesus/// why does it really matter . it isnt central to Jesus it is something tthat is not Crutial to anything…??? why does it really matter?

It’s important because it’s the truth and some religions actually care about preserving the truth rather than just ignoring it because some people don’t like it. Sorry that we don’t pick and choose what to believe.

 

[ClamDigger]

May I suggest, to answer your question, that some don’t see it from a Christian perspective, by that I mean they do not see it as Christocentric. They don’t see her remaining a virgin after christ’s birth as necessary in terms of the message of Christ.
In other words, if one views sempre virgo as honoring and centered on Christ, not honoring or centered on the Blessed Virgin, then one gains a new perspective on the teaching.

This is why it is odd to me personally that more Lutherans don’t accept the teaching, as the Lutheran Confessions mention the belief under the section - “The Person of Christ”.
Sempre virgo is a Christ-centered teaching.

Jon

Exactly. It is a Christ-centered teaching because Mary is a Christ-centered (really, the person most central to Christ’s life other than Christ himself!) person.

 

[ClamDigger]

ClamDigger,
Thanks for your reply to my post #367 . My question is , is the James of the Protoevagelium whose identity I inquired about the James known as " James the Lesser " ? I ask because I thought they weren’t the same person . Can anyone help ? Thanks .

I think it’s actually James the Greater? Like the “Santiago de Compostela” James?

 

[ClamDigger]

I, like many others who were not raised Catholic, only wonder about perpetual virginity as Mary was married. Our confusion comes with the consummation of marriage which is mentioned both in the Old and New Testaments. It is different than most Protestant teachings and yet very central to Catholic doctrine. The question arose to attain clarity on the issue to which, as I had mentioned before, many Catholics were kind enough to help by contributing answers on the subject.

Mary was one of the people who made herself a celibate for the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 19.12) because she knew that her virginity gave glory to God and her sole purpose in life was to magnify the Lord (Luke 1.46).