Why do Catholics believe that all non-Catholics hold the same beliefs?

[SpiritMeadow]

The distinction is that there is one set of universal doctrines and dogmas that Catholics are called to hold as part of their faith. To the extent an individual Catholic is not in union on these beliefs, he or she is not in union with the Church. I think the distinction being made is that “practicing” Catholics are in union with Church doctrine, while “practicing” Baptists, Methodists, CoC, Presbyterians, Lutherans, etc., etc. are not in union on these same doctrines, or even with regard to which doctrines should be on the list of “fundamental” teaching. Hope this helps.

Peace,
-Robert

You’re not remotely correct in my estimation. I am very liberal, and thus in touch through blogging with a rather large number of liberal Catholics. I can assure you they are “practicing” and in some cases, go to Mass daily. Please site your basis for concluding that practicing Baptists Methodists, etc, are not in union? I seem to find myself in pretty good union with most of the people in my parish, at least those I’ve had occassion to discuss theology and biblical studies with. While we have our differences no doubt on the largest scale, so do you.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Their “practice” would be in vain. The sacraments aren’t magic rituals that substitute for faith. In order for them to be efficacious, the Catholic faith is essential.

Uh so that would mean that Roman Catholics sit in the pew with other Roman catholics, and they don’t agree on doctrine…??? I thought he just said…

 

[rinnie]

Actually I never felt that way. But I will say that I never have heard of a protestant that said the Rosary. Now that is wonderful. I love to hear things like that. Would you mind if I asked what Protestant Church does recite the Rosary. Again that is wonderful to hear!

 

[Eternaly_Secure]

It takes me back that many Catholics post questions here in assumption that if you are not Catholic, then you must believe in a consistent non-compliant way against the Catholic church. Are you really that ignorant of those with faiths other than yours? Do you really believe that anyone who isn’t Catholic must believe that anyone who has passed is dead in the ground and cannot be in Heaven? Do you really believe that if one is not Catholic, then they cannot possibly recite the Rosary? Do you reall believe that being Protestant automatically makes one disrespectful to Mary?

We desperately need for those who lump all Protestants into the same pot to reconsider their thoughts. Some of us Protestants are as despised by other Protestants as you Catholics are. This seems to be an ongoing disconnect here and it urgently needs to be corrected before further meaningful conversation can take place.

I hate this whole catholic protestant thing, so much!
There are two types of people on this earth and they are:

1. Those who have had their sins forgiven and are on their way to be with Christ for all eternity.
2. Those who are still in ther sins and if they dont wake up soon will end up in HELL and then THE LAKE OF FIRE for all eternity.

What is the use in all the arguing between catholics and so called protestants, it’ll all end in tears, and the loss of souls.
The devil is very busy deceiving people into debates and arguments over religion, he is keeping people busy, so they have no time to think about their souls.

The Lord Jesus Christ wants to save you, dont reject him.

‘‘Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and Thou Shalt Be Saved’’

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Actually I never felt that way. But I will say that I never have heard of a protestant that said the Rosary. Now that is wonderful. I love to hear things like that. Would you mind if I asked what Protestant Church does recite the Rosary. Again that is wonderful to hear!

The Episcopal Church has some who pray the rosary, though some do not consider themselves Protestant as you well know. Anglo Catholic would be more correct for some no doubt. I say it occassionally but I do not care for the decades in the glorious which refer to Mary’s assumption and coronation, which I believe are but logical deductions and not based on scripture. While some deductions can be correct, they need not be, and I don’t hold to either doctrine myself. I prefer the Divine Mercy myself.

 

[rinnie]

The Episcopal Church has some who pray the rosary, though some do not consider themselves Protestant as you well know. Anglo Catholic would be more correct for some no doubt. I say it occassionally but I do not care for the decades in the glorious which refer to Mary’s assumption and coronation, which I believe are but logical deductions and not based on scripture. While some deductions can be correct, they need not be, and I don’t hold to either doctrine myself. I prefer the Divine Mercy myself.

I also love the Divine Mercy!

 

[ICA04]

As a former Protestant (Baptist) who explored many Protestant religions before converting to Catholicism last year, I for one as well as a large number of people in my parish, including the Vicar General, do not agree with any of the “beliefs” that you pose *all *Catholics to hold.

So if you don’t want Protestants to be lumped into the same pot, why do you make untrue statements of Catholics? This is how Truth becomes veiled.

I agree that there is a great disconnect. What I find interesting is that people research subjects from their point of view. If you are Catholic you research Protestantism by reading Catholic authors, If you are Protestant you research Catholicism by Protestant authors. This is how misunderstanding occurs. The amazing part is that to understand Catholicism all you have to do is pull out your Bible and get a copy of the Catechism. These are your main sources. For a comprehensive look into our beliefs you can easily go to www.vatican.va and have a very comprehensive look into the Catholic world.

To study Protestantism this is much harder. You basically have to study the rubrics of each individual pastor, this I know I have attended routinely 10+ Baptist churches, about 5 Methodist churches, and several non-denoms. None of them believed the same thing. So you can’t lump all Protestants into the same pot, there’s just no way.

You seem to be ignorant of what you claim you are not as well. How do you study Protestantism? What are the main beliefs in Protestantism? It almost constitutes an oxymoron. As a Baptist, did you believe in the Real Presence, the Communion of Saints and crossing yourself? We believing in all those in my church and both Baptists and us are considered Protestants. Are we all just Protestants then? Hardly.

 

[ICA04]

I find that answer disingenuous. There are threads here that ASSUME that all Non RC are sola scriptura believers, and sole interpreters. We are asked if we have ever heard of Thomas a Kempis and the rosary. Someone recently asked if we knew what Lent was. What do protestants think of the Trinity? All this assumes that all Protestants are the same, and of course it negates plenty of faith traditions that consider themselves not Protestant at all, but catholic in the sense of being apostolic.

Your attempt to be smug by stating that there are so many “can’t expect to know them all” doesn’t excuse the lack of some basis familiarity with the major denominations some here so wildly accuse of all wrong doing and thinking.

Excellent response and thanks for it. These questions that you mentioned are precisely what I was referring to when stating that it seems as if all of us Protestants here are being lumped together by Catholics who assume that we have absolutely nothing in common with them and that we all believe the same way. I am already very tired and frustrated over being asked if I have ever heard of Lent and other plainly ignorant and borderline stupid statements like this. If they don’t honestly know the answers to some of these ridiculous questions then I think that they should make some kind of an attempt at becoming educated about others outside the walls of the RCC.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

It takes me back that many Catholics post questions here in assumption that if you are not Catholic, then you must believe in a consistent non-compliant way against the Catholic church. Are you really that ignorant of those with faiths other than yours? Do you really believe that anyone who isn’t Catholic must believe that anyone who has passed is dead in the ground and cannot be in Heaven? Do you really believe that if one is not Catholic, then they cannot possibly recite the Rosary? Do you reall believe that being Protestant automatically makes one disrespectful to Mary?

We desperately need for those who lump all Protestants into the same pot to reconsider their thoughts. Some of us Protestants are as despised by other Protestants as you Catholics are. This seems to be an ongoing disconnect here and it urgently needs to be corrected before further meaningful conversation can take place.

Gabriel of 12;

You pose an interesting post here; I believe your being unreasonable; for the fact on this forum, it makes difficult to deciphere at times who a Catholic is addressing. Let it be known that true there is a divide between Protestants and non- catholics. But many of the non catholics associate themselves with Protestants, meaning those opposed to the Apostolic Catholic church. Maybe what you seek is definition of the terms “Protestant” when being used in these forums.

True there are Protestants that are very close to the Catholic Church, when holding to the Sacraments, Mary, Saints, The Credo etc. be it known that most non catholics are not aware of these similarities, yet they subscribe to “protestantism” (one who protests the Catholic church).

What makes this interesting is that although you might hold to the teachings of the Apostolic Catholic church, many other non catholics who hold or support “protestantism” do not. In fact, upon reading your post probably the only thing that divides your Protestant belief’s and Catholic is “Authority” and Valid Sacraments? The only two Protestant denominations that come close outside of Catholicism is Lutherans and Anglicans from of old.

I have to say although you do raise an interesting post for; not only Catholics but protestants and non catholics in general who succumb to these generalizations because they all do have one thing in common; “Protest the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church”.

Peace be with you

 

[Patrick_Cox]

It takes me back that many Catholics post questions here in assumption that if you are not Catholic, then you must believe in a consistent non-compliant way against the Catholic church. Are you really that ignorant of those with faiths other than yours? Do you really believe that anyone who isn’t Catholic must believe that anyone who has passed is dead in the ground and cannot be in Heaven? Do you really believe that if one is not Catholic, then they cannot possibly recite the Rosary? Do you reall believe that being Protestant automatically makes one disrespectful to Mary?

We desperately need for those who lump all Protestants into the same pot to reconsider their thoughts. Some of us Protestants are as despised by other Protestants as you Catholics are. This seems to be an ongoing disconnect here and it urgently needs to be corrected before further meaningful conversation can take place.

ICA04 - Having posted several times on these forums recently, I am surprised by your post here. One of the primary difficulties Catholics have with Protestant religions is the very opposite of what you say here, and that is that there are so many different versions of Christianity and so many different faiths - we certainly don’t lump them all together in the same pot! It would be fantastic if the whole of Christianity could be lumped in the same pot with the same faiths and same beliefs, but we know that this is sadly not the case! There are numerous divisions.This is why there are threads in these forums about Islam, about Mormons, about Baptists etc. They all merit their own discussions.

We don’t believe any of the things you mention above. So for example, take the issue of Mary. Catholics themselves are often criticised for supposedly “praying to Mary” (not true - see discussion in other threads). This does not translate to Catholics thinking that other faiths are necessarily disrespectful of Mary. We are simply justifying why she is regarded by Catholics as an extremely important person and example of faith - I think it is fair to say that we do regard her more prominently than most (but perhaps not all) other religions.

Furthermore, anyone at all can end up in heaven - be they Jew, Protestant, Muslim, Atheist or Catholic. Every individual will be judged by how they lived their life in full. No single religion has sole rights to claim heaven for themselves. God is merciful and just to ALL his children.

Now if only we could all be lumped together in one big, happy, unified pot! Nothing would make God happier!

 

[rinnie]

ICA04 - Having posted several times on these forums recently, I am surprised by your post here. One of the primary difficulties Catholics have with Protestant religions is the very opposite of what you say here, and that is that there are so many different versions of Christianity and so many different faiths - we certainly don’t lump them all together in the same pot! It would be fantastic if the whole of Christianity could be lumped in the same pot with the same faiths and same beliefs, but we know that this is sadly not the case! There are numerous divisions.This is why there are threads in these forums about Islam, about Mormons, about Baptists etc. They all merit their own discussions.

We don’t believe any of the things you mention above. So for example, take the issue of Mary. Catholics themselves are often criticised for supposedly “praying to Mary” (not true - see discussion in other threads). This does not translate to Catholics thinking that other faiths are necessarily disrespectful of Mary. We are simply justifying why she is regarded by Catholics as an extremely important person and example of faith - I think it is fair to say that we do regard her more prominently than most (but perhaps not all) other religions.

Furthermore, anyone at all can end up in heaven - be they Jew, Protestant, Muslim, Atheist or Catholic. Every individual will be judged by how they lived their life in full. No single religion has sole rights to claim heaven for themselves. God is merciful and just to ALL his children.

Now if only we could all be lumped together in one big, happy, unified pot! Nothing would make God happier!

Good post but I do have a question, while I agree it is all up to God in the end who gets in and who doesn’t, Does not the Catholic Church have the right to claim to have the fullness of the truth. Now here is the thing, and I could be wrong, but what I understand if the Catholic Church is revealed to you, you must obey and accept its teachings. So what I am saying is if I am a RC and know quite well the teachings of the Church and turn away from them,. and lets say go to a protestant Church did I not put my soul in grave danger?

 

[Patrick_Cox]

Good post but I do have a question, while I agree it is all up to God in the end who gets in and who doesn’t, Does not the Catholic Church have the right to claim to have the fullness of the truth. Now here is the thing, and I could be wrong, but what I understand if the Catholic Church is revealed to you, you must obey and accept its teachings. So what I am saying is if I am a RC and know quite well the teachings of the Church and turn away from them,. and lets say go to a protestant Church did I not put my soul in grave danger?

Hi Rinnie

Yes - the Catholic Church does have the right to claim the fullness of truth (a statement which will no doubt irk many non-Catholics - and we won’t go into the details of why the Catholic Church can claim this in this thread - it has been discussed in many other threads). And yes, as a Catholic we must accept and obey ALL of its teachings - so we can not pick and choose those teachings which suit us and ignore those that don’t - this is part of accepting the FULLNESS of truth you mention.

If you turn away from the Catholic Church’s teachings, you certainly do place your soul in grave danger - but by no means can one say that you will necessarily end up in the fires of hell for all eternity when you die. God is both a God of justice as well as a God of mercy, and dearly wants each and every soul to end up with Him in heaven. Rejecting the fullness of truth (ie the Catholic Church) will certainly jeopardise this link to heaven, but God will look at the sincerity of the individual and assess what is within each person’s heart. So if a person rejects the Catholic faith and with all sincerity believes they have moved to a closer fullness of truth with God somewhere else, God will judge this person differently to someone who perhaps rejects God more directly and turns away from God more fully. We are ALL God’s children - Catholic and non-Catholic alike.

When it comes to God’s final judgment though, God will look into each person’s heart and ascertain the nature of that person’s rejection of the fullness of truth, and it may be that certain souls will require a longer and deeper process of purification in purgatory in order that their souls are perfect when they enter the kingdom of heaven. (And as we know, the concept of purgatory is another one that some of our non-Catholic friends grapple with as this concept has not been taught in their faith).
And it may be that some souls who reject God and the Catholic Church more fully do indeed sadly end up in the fires of hell.

Finally, God places a higher degree of responsibility and expectation on those who have come to understand Him and know Him, than he will on those who have never had the chance to get to know the fullness of truth.

Hope this addresses your question in some way…?

Patrick

 

[Snerticus]

Originally Posted by SpiritMeadow

I’ll make you a deal, I’ll try and gather all the Catholics together to learn more about Protestant beliefs if you gather all the Protestants together and learn more about Catholic beliefs. That way, neither side will have to be exposed to really ridiculous questions that we can’t believe the other is actually asking. Believe me Catholics are exposed to equally stupid questions posed by Protestants. We put up with some doozies too. Jack Chick has given many a Protestant “food for thought”, as in why we worship the egyptian sun god, etc… If that’s not ridiculous, I don’t know what is.

But let me ask you this, if there were over 40,000 different sects of Catholics with different beliefs, would you try to study them all? Even if you only chose a fraction of a percentage, where exactly would you start? And why exactly, are there so many denominations in the first place?

Finally, in answer to your question in the title of this thread, I’ll ask you another:

Why do non-Catholics lump all Catholics together by implying that all Catholics think non-Catholics hold the same belief?

---

This whole post was not meant to be a “smart aleck remark”. It was, however, meant to get you thinking that your views and questions might just be mirrored by the other side… basically that although you do make a valid point in certain circumstances, consider that Catholics have a similar “bone to pick”.

 

[Snerticus]

And here is a wonderful example of just how some Protestants feel and make known some ridiculous things about Catholics:

I have started this thread to hopefully show the catholics on this forum that the church they love so much, is an apostate whore and in the hope that they will repent.
God loves you so much and he is calling you, please dont reject him.
Please read this link and take the advice given on the page that I’ve linked you to and if you still trust your ‘church’ after taking that advice, then so be it. There are plenty of articles on this site for you to read, but even taking the advice given on the first page, if you open yourself up to God’s leading should be enough.
I love you all and I hope you will all be saved.
sounddoctrine.com/sola.htm

Now, although many (hopefully most) protestants don’t believe this, this person certainly doesn’t make the case for you who are trying your best to stop Catholics from questioning protestant beliefs, does it?

 

[Schluns]

You seem to be ignorant of what you claim you are not as well. How do you study Protestantism? What are the main beliefs in Protestantism? It almost constitutes an oxymoron. As a Baptist, did you believe in the Real Presence, the Communion of Saints and crossing yourself? We believing in all those in my church and both Baptists and us are considered Protestants. Are we all just Protestants then? Hardly.

You make no sense to me.

Protestant \Prot"es*tant, a. [Cf. F. protestant.]

1. Making a protest; protesting.
2. Of or pertaining to the faith and practice of those Christians who reject the authority of the Roman Catholic Church; as, Protestant writers.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Good post but I do have a question, while I agree it is all up to God in the end who gets in and who doesn’t, Does not the Catholic Church have the right to claim to have the fullness of the truth. Now here is the thing, and I could be wrong, but what I understand if the Catholic Church is revealed to you, you must obey and accept its teachings. So what I am saying is if I am a RC and know quite well the teachings of the Church and turn away from them,. and lets say go to a protestant Church did I not put my soul in grave danger?

If I may interject. What you are in truth saying is that the Roman Catholic church DOES in fact claim to have teh fullness of truth, and you agree with it’s reasoning. The point is, other Christian churches may wish to make the same claim, and if their followers so believe, then they have as strong a claim as any Roman Catholic does. Remember, the claim that Jesus designated ONE Church and that church is the RCC, is an INTERPRETATION, one made by your denomination. Other faith denominiations have different interpretations of the same text.

I’m not sure what you mean by the RCC being “revealed to you.” Some people are raised in a particular faith tradition and some in adulthood question that and find a tradition that more clearly agrees with their vision of God. I think you are suggesting that ONLY the RCC can “reveal” and then since you accept the teaching of your church that is has the RIGHT to claim fullness of truth, then to leave it would place one in some grave sin. You’re building assumption upon assumption, none of which can logically be proven.

I appeciate your beliefs, and certainly honor them, but you must understand that millions of others look at the entire thing quite differently.

I appreciate your very thoughtful comments.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I’ll make you a deal, I’ll try and gather all the Catholics together to learn more about Protestant beliefs if you gather all the Protestants together and learn more about Catholic beliefs. That way, neither side will have to be exposed to really ridiculous questions that we can’t believe the other is actually asking. Believe me Catholics are exposed to equally stupid questions posed by Protestants. We put up with some doozies too. Jack Chick has given many a Protestant “food for thought”, as in why we worship the egyptian sun god, etc… If that’s not ridiculous, I don’t know what is.

But let me ask you this, if there were over 40,000 different sects of Catholics with different beliefs, would you try to study them all? Even if you only chose a fraction of a percentage, where exactly would you start? And why exactly, are there so many denominations in the first place?

Finally, in answer to your question in the title of this thread, I’ll ask you another:

Why do non-Catholics lump all Catholics together by implying that all Catholics think non-Catholics hold the same belief?

---

This whole post was not meant to be a “smart aleck remark”. It was, however, meant to get you thinking that your views and questions might just be mirrored by the other side… basically that although you do make a valid point in certain circumstances, consider that Catholics have a similar “bone to pick”.

1, I agree with you that there are agregious threads started against RC’s that never seem to end, mostly about mary and worship etc. I would never claim that this is a one sided problem.

1. There are at least a half dozen Catholic sects as you call them, and certainly something near to 40,000 other Christian denominations. By no means do even Non RC folks understand the machinations of most of them. But I would think one ought to be reasonably familiar with the major ones at least, Anglican/Episcopal, Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran, Baptist etc. At least enough to know that they can vary quite radically in belief. At least I would suggest to know which are fundamentalist in nature andwhich are not. But I don’t claim to know a lot about the differences between EO and RCC and the various versions of Catholicism practiced in this country not aligned to Rome, I just know they ascribe to some different beliefs. I guess asking would be better than lumping everyone together and assuming.
2. I would not be a person who would ever assume all RC think alike. Having been RC for a number of years, coming here was a serious shock to my system. I had never met RC’s like those here in my life. I know a lot of liberal Catholics and a rather large number of religious. They are anything but what one finds here as the norm. There is a definite fundamentalist tinge to a lot of the arguments here. But I would agree it is most incorrect to assume all RC are alike. They are not, by a long shot.

 

[ICA04]

I’ll make you a deal, I’ll try and gather all the Catholics together to learn more about Protestant beliefs if you gather all the Protestants together and learn more about Catholic beliefs. That way, neither side will have to be exposed to really ridiculous questions that we can’t believe the other is actually asking. Believe me Catholics are exposed to equally stupid questions posed by Protestants. We put up with some doozies too. Jack Chick has given many a Protestant “food for thought”, as in why we worship the egyptian sun god, etc… If that’s not ridiculous, I don’t know what is.

But let me ask you this, if there were over 40,000 different sects of Catholics with different beliefs, would you try to study them all? Even if you only chose a fraction of a percentage, where exactly would you start? And why exactly, are there so many denominations in the first place?

Finally, in answer to your question in the title of this thread, I’ll ask you another:

Why do non-Catholics lump all Catholics together by implying that all Catholics think non-Catholics hold the same belief?

---

This whole post was not meant to be a “smart aleck remark”. It was, however, meant to get you thinking that your views and questions might just be mirrored by the other side… basically that although you do make a valid point in certain circumstances, consider that Catholics have a similar “bone to pick”.

Which Protestants are you talking about? Jack Chick would call my church a cult, so your analogy there doesn’t help.

 

[pismopal]

The Catholic Church is a beautiful tapestry of Christianity that Catholics would do well to concentrate on. I see no useful purpose in trying to untangle and learn the faith articles, whatever they might be, of non Catholic denoms…just my opinion.

 

[ICA04]

The Catholic Church is a beautiful tapestry of Christianity that Catholics would do well to concentrate on. I see no useful purpose in trying to untangle and learn the faith articles, whatever they might be, of non Catholic denoms…just my opinion.

And this is precisely the reason why dialogue between Catholics and others will probably never go anywhere…