Why do Catholics distrust Muslims?

[jakasaki]

I should also add that the Quran also contains ideas and facts which Muhammad (peace be upon him) could nt simply have made up or read about somewhere else. For one thing, some of these ideas were not even discovered (such as the relationship between salt and freshwater sources) until much later. There is also the formation of the embryo, various biological theories and others which are mentioned in the Quran but were not discovered or proven until some time after the revelation of the Quran.

Here is some information for you to study up regarding the so called “embryology miracle” from the koran.

I believe it’s in the British museum, but not sure.

There are 7 ancient tablets of the Enuma Elish and the 6th tablet has on the creation of man being created by “blood clot”

Google Enuma Elish tablets and read the English translations.

These tablets go back hundreds and hundreds of years before mohamad & islam.

Also look up a Greek doctor named Galen, who lived of 150 AD.

In 1983 Basim Musallam, Director of the Centre of Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Cambridge concluded, "The stages of development which the Qur’an and Hadith established for believers agreed perfectly with Galen’s scientific account…

There is no doubt that medieval thought appreciated this agreement between the Qur’an and Galen, for Arabic science employed the same Qur’anic terms to describe the Galenic stages"

Reference: (B. Musallam (Cambridge, 1983) Sex and Society in Islam. p. 54)

**Hippocrates who lived around 370BC as well as Aristotle who also lived around 330BC.

They already had the knowledge for how embryos were created and formed.**

 

[megazh0pa]

I take what I see as a reasonable and completely non-contradictory approach. Based on the evidence as I see it, I am confident that my doubts about the Bible and the Church are correct and that my decision to leave is correct.

However, if evidence would be presented to me which changed my mind then as I say, I would change my mind. But given the strength of my doubts, this evidence would have to be extraordinary, if not completely impossible to produce.

It’s the same approach Richard Dawkins takes in relation to Creationism, and it is completely rational.

But you found truth and honesty in, Islam? Now you are just lying to yourself. The poor tax in Islam… I have been to Dubai… I have been just on the outskirts of the richest city in the world… Where the poorest people live… Make your pilgrimige… And then be honest with your self.

 

[GraceDK]

I take what I see as a reasonable and completely non-contradictory approach. Based on the evidence as I see it, I am confident that my doubts about the Bible and the Church are correct and that my decision to leave is correct.

However, if evidence would be presented to me which changed my mind then as I say, I would change my mind. But given the strength of my doubts, this evidence would have to be extraordinary, if not completely impossible to produce.

It’s the same approach Richard Dawkins takes in relation to Creationism, and it is completely rational.

Since you do not live under Sharia, you can freely get yourself a New Testament plus a autobiography about the prophet Muhammad.
Sit down, compare the two persons. Ask yourself who is credible.
I have read extensively in the Quran and Hadith, and I have made my choice too.

No Church can change your mind. Neither can any of us. You can only go into silent reflection and study the two persons, Jesus (in New Testament) and Muhammad, and choose which one spoke the truth. Be honest with yourself.
You don’t have to share your conclusion with any of us here.

Follow the Truth as you find it, but if your conscience speaks, listen to it. If someone tells you eg. that having no mercy is okay, do listen to your conscience, and if someone tells you that ablusions and ritual bowings can wipe your sins away, test that voice most thoroughly, and if someone tells you Jesus did not die on the cross and he didn’t atone for sins then at least let that person admit that the story is absurd about Judas hanging there in his stead… if someone tells you that women and men are unequal, that having many wives is moral believe in your female heart that you are called to a greater dignity than that. if someone says to you, the Christians believe in 3 Gods and that Mary is part of the Trinity then admonish them and tell them that the one who wrote those words was ill informed, for the Christians never held this belief. If someone tells you that God created people to populate hell… use the knowlege you have, even if remote now, of your Father in Heaven who wants everyone to be saved.

Islam is exactly what Muhammad said and did.
Christianity is exactly what Jesus said and did.

 

[SwizzleStick]

I am very late to see this thread, but the title caught my eye, “Why do Catholics distrust Muslims.” Why are Catholics singled out? Don’t many people distrust Islam because…well there are a lot of reasons, not least of which is extreme violent behavior by its adherents?

I apologize if this has already been discussed.

 

[SwizzleStick]

I am very late to see this thread, but the title caught my eye, “Why do Catholics distrust Muslims.” Why are Catholics singled out? Don’t many people distrust Islam because…well there are a lot of reasons, not least of which is extreme violent behavior by its adherents?

I apologize if this has already been discussed.

Sorry, all. I should have read before reacting to the title. I see now that my thought was shared and immediately addressed.

 

[Bev17243]

Since you do not live under Sharia, you can freely get yourself a New Testament plus a autobiography about the prophet Muhammad.
Sit down, compare the two persons. Ask yourself who is credible.
I have read extensively in the Quran and Hadith, and I have made my choice too.

No Church can change your mind. Neither can any of us. You can only go into silent reflection and study the two persons, Jesus (in New Testament) and Muhammad, and choose which one spoke the truth. Be honest with yourself.
You don’t have to share your conclusion with any of us here.

Follow the Truth as you find it, but if your conscience speaks, listen to it. If someone tells you eg. that having no mercy is okay, do listen to your conscience, and if someone tells you that ablusions and ritual bowings can wipe your sins away, test that voice most thoroughly, and if someone tells you Jesus did not die on the cross and he didn’t atone for sins then at least let that person admit that the story is absurd about Judas hanging there in his stead… if someone tells you that women and men are unequal, that having many wives is moral believe in your female heart that you are called to a greater dignity than that. if someone says to you, the Christians believe in 3 Gods and that Mary is part of the Trinity then admonish them and tell them that the one who wrote those words was ill informed, for the Christians never held this belief. If someone tells you that God created people to populate hell… use the knowlege you have, even if remote now, of your Father in Heaven who wants everyone to be saved.

Islam is exactly what Muhammad said and did.
Christianity is exactly what Jesus said and did.

****

 

[Kouyate42]

But you found truth and honesty in, Islam? Now you are just lying to yourself. The poor tax in Islam… I have been to Dubai… I have been just on the outskirts of the richest city in the world… Where the poorest people live… Make your pilgrimige… And then be honest with your self.

I’ve been to many a Muslim country and the amount of charity money spent on the poor and on other social projects was quite massive.

And insha’Allah I will go on Hajj one day. There you will find poor, rich, young and old, male and female, of all different nationalities and languages, all together as EQUALS.

Here is some information for you to study up regarding the so called “embryology miracle” from the koran.

I believe it’s in the British museum, but not sure.

There are 7 ancient tablets of the Enuma Elish and the 6th tablet has on the creation of man being created by “blood clot”

Google Enuma Elish tablets and read the English translations.

You forget one thing: I’m an ancient history major. I’ve read most of these texts.

These tablets go back hundreds and hundreds of years before mohamad & islam.

Also look up a Greek doctor named Galen, who lived of 150 AD.

I’ve also studied historical medicine. Seriously, how many texts of Galen/Aristotle/Herophilos/Hippocrates/Erastratus do you think were in 7th century Arabia? Most people at the time couldn’t read their own language, never mind Greek.

Reference: (B. Musallam (Cambridge, 1983) Sex and Society in Islam. p. 54)

**Hippocrates who lived around 370BC as well as Aristotle who also lived around 330BC.

They already had the knowledge for how embryos were created and formed.**

Read above. Also, much of what is found in Aristotle’s works, and Galen’s medical texts, and indeed in many ancient texts is blatantly wrong.

And I’d ask this: you say works on embryology already existed before Qur’an, and indeed a correct theory of embryology had been written about. Now, in the ancient world, there were many ‘wrong’ theories of scientific ideas, such as the idea that all substances were made from forms of water, or the idea that the sperm was the entirety of the material which made an embryo. How was a man such as Muhammad (saw) able to detect correct ideas in a sea of falsehood based on his purely human knowledge?

The simple answer is that without Allah’s guidance, he could not have done this;.

 

[Bev17243]

I’ve been to many a Muslim country and the amount of charity money spent on the poor and on other social projects was quite massive.

And insha’Allah I will go on Hajj one day. There you will find poor, rich, young and old, male and female, of all different nationalities and languages, all together as EQUALS.

You forget one thing: I’m an ancient history major. I’ve read most of these texts.

I’ve also studied historical medicine. Seriously, how many texts of Galen/Aristotle/Herophilos/Hippocrates/Erastratus do you think were in 7th century Arabia? Most people at the time couldn’t read their own language, never mind Greek.

Read above. Also, much of what is found in Aristotle’s works, and Galen’s medical texts, and indeed in many ancient texts is blatantly wrong.

And I’d ask this: you say works on embryology already existed before Qur’an, and indeed a correct theory of embryology had been written about. Now, in the ancient world, there were many ‘wrong’ theories of scientific ideas, such as the idea that all substances were made from forms of water, or the idea that the sperm was the entirety of the material which made an embryo. How was a man such as Muhammad (saw) able to detect correct ideas in a sea of falsehood based on his purely human knowledge?

The simple answer is that without Allah’s guidance, he could not have done this;.

as my Jewish friend would say “oy-vey”:ehh: I think it would be appropriate to say that trying to put forth any logical arguments is futile:banghead:

 

[Kouyate42]

as my Jewish friend would say “oy-vey”:ehh: I think it would be appropriate to say that trying to put forth any logical arguments is futile:banghead:

Around here, that is correct.

 

[Armyvet007]

Kou-

You first based the Quran being divine on it containing information concerning the development of embryos that did not exist at that time. It did [Galen, which the Quran mirrors rather too closely], it had existed for several hundred years.

Then put forth that Muhammad couldn’t have known about that knowledge. Its rather reasonable that he, or someone close to him did (like Ibn-Kalada [a learned medical doctor] or his cousin al-Nasar [another medical doctor]. Mecca served as a trade hub and a pagan religous hub; Muhammad’s tribe had a heavy interest in trade; major intellectual centers where either close [geographically speaking] or connected to Mecca through trade, and Greek and Latin works were already being translated into the various langauges of the region. Top this off with several hundred years for said information to spread [especially in a region so tied to trade] and it is very reasonable to conclude that Muhammad had easy access to the information.

And now it is how could he have selected the right theory. Well selecting the right theory is the basis for the divine, then shouldn’t Galen [whose works have been noted to be very similar to the Quran, starting with Ibn-Kalada] be considered divinely inspired as well; especially since he put forth his theory prior to Muhammad?

As for your dismisal of the much older texts “You forget one thing: I’m an ancient history major. I’ve read most of these texts.”]-
a) You being a history major doesn’t matter. I have a BA in history and a MA in political science; that doesn’t make me an expert [let alone a valid authority] on early Church history or early Church politics.
b) You telling us you have read them does not refute them or actually invalidate the argument put forth.

Additionally, if Muhammad was given medical knowledge by God, why did Muhammad send people to others for medical treatment. And then all the stuff I asked in my last post addressed to you.

 

[Aaronmc90]

The issue at hand isn’t that muhammed got it right, and we are looking for how he could have gotten it right

The issue at hand is, the statements in the quran and hadith concerning embryonic science (And all other science, for that matter) are dead wrong and don’t even come close to mirroring reality, they do however, parrot the WRONG theories of persons like Galen, who’s works where very influential in that time and area, muhammed got it wrong, and in a multicultural hellenized middle east of that period, he had access to what Galen taught, and simply repeated his errors

The quran never mentions the egg
The quran says bones come before flesh, they occur at the same time, and if anything bones come later since they don’t fully calcify until after a period of birth (ancient Egyptians used to wrap towels around the head of an infant to give it a “Cone” look as the bones where calcifying)

And many others, there are many sites dealing with exposing the false assumption of quranic accuracy

The quran contains apocraphyl gnostic texts ( Infancy gospel, jesus with the clay birds) jewish folklore ( Abraham and the idols) bad science (Stars made to shoot down djinns although they have nothing in common with shooting stars which are totally different) local legends (Djinns, alexander the great etc) and last but not least time conflation (Mixing up different people and events from Biblical narratives and placing them in the same era, another major source of embarrassment for muslim believers)

All in all, the quran is EXACTLY what one would expect coming from someone from that time and geographical area, muhammed was very much a man of his time and the quran shows the superstitions, folklores and mistakes one would expect of an ignorant person or group of people

 

[Bev17243]

The issue at hand isn’t that muhammed got it right, and we are looking for how he could have gotten it right

The issue at hand is, the statements in the quran and hadith concerning embryonic science (And all other science, for that matter) are dead wrong and don’t even come close to mirroring reality, they do however, parrot the WRONG theories of persons like Galen, who’s works where very influential in that time and area, muhammed got it wrong, and in a multicultural hellenized middle east of that period, he had access to what Galen taught, and simply repeated his errors

The quran never mentions the egg
The quran says bones come before flesh, they occur at the same time, and if anything bones come later since they don’t fully calcify until after a period of birth (ancient Egyptians used to wrap towels around the head of an infant to give it a “Cone” look as the bones where calcifying)

And many others, there are many sites dealing with exposing the false assumption of quranic accuracy

**The quran contains apocraphyl gnostic texts ( Infancy gospel, jesus with the clay birds) jewish folklore ( Abraham and the idols) bad science (Stars made to shoot down djinns although they have nothing in common with shooting stars which are totally different) local legends (Djinns, alexander the great etc) and last but not least time conflation (Mixing up different people and events from Biblical narratives and placing them in the same era, another major source of embarrassment for muslim believers)

All in all, the quran is EXACTLY what one would expect coming from someone from that time and geographical area, muhammed was very much a man of his time and the quran shows the superstitions, folklores and mistakes one would expect of an ignorant person or group of people**]
well said, thank you:thumbsup:

 

[yellowbird]

It’s not the Catholic part of me that distrusts Muslims… it’s the American part and that’s because terrorists are usually Muslim. When I fly, it’s not like I worry that a Presbyterian is going to take over the aircraft and fly it into a building… or wonder if a Buddist is plotting to poison our water supply - or a Jew is planning to bomb the subway system. Nope - it’s the Muslims, almost every single time.

I stood at Ground Zero after 9/11. I will never forget.

 

[Aaronmc90]

It’s important to take a stand against the beliefs of islam, knowing that if someone dies a believing muslim, they will go to hell, forever…

In the end, muslims are the greatest victims of the ignorance and arrogance of they’re prophet, and it’s eternal ramifications

 

[Kouyate42]

It’s not the Catholic part of me that distrusts Muslims… it’s the American part and that’s because terrorists are usually Muslim. When I fly, it’s not like I worry that a Presbyterian is going to take over the aircraft and fly it into a building… or wonder if a Buddist is plotting to poison our water supply - or a Jew is planning to bomb the subway system. Nope - it’s the Muslims, almost every single time.

I stood at Ground Zero after 9/11. I will never forget.

Slightly faulty logic here. Some Muslims were the victim of 9/11, and many of these were US citizens. These were converts and born Muslims, young and old, from cleaners to top office workers. Many of them had never shown one bit of hate for the US or support for terrorist activities. They were, to put some emphasis to this, completely innocent victims, regardless of religion.

I could also cite many acts of terrorism which aren’t anything to do with Islam: the Omagh bombings and other attacks in Ireland, the Madrid bombings, the Tokyo gas attacks and even the historical Gunpowder Plot was nothing to do with Islam. The IRA, ETA, the Real IRA and others are not Muslim.

Do not dare to tar every single Muslim with the same brush.

 

[yellowbird]

Slightly faulty logic here. Some Muslims were the victim of 9/11, and many of these were US citizens. These were converts and born Muslims, young and old, from cleaners to top office workers. Many of them had never shown one bit of hate for the US or support for terrorist activities. They were, to put some emphasis to this, completely innocent victims, regardless of religion.

I could also cite many acts of terrorism which aren’t anything to do with Islam: the Omagh bombings and other attacks in Ireland, the Madrid bombings, the Tokyo gas attacks and even the historical Gunpowder Plot was nothing to do with Islam. The IRA, ETA, the Real IRA and others are not Muslim.

Do not dare to tar every single Muslim with the same brush.

Most Muslims are not terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslim. Don’t blame me that so many who follow your faith are bent on destroying America and killing as many people as possible in the process. That doesn’t make for a very “trusting” relationship.

The Gunpowder Plot? From the 1600’s?? Are you kidding me? That’s the example you use to show that Muslims aren’t the only terrorists? Do a google seach of Islamic terrorists in this centrury alone and the list is so very long… so many innocent people dead.

You are correct, there are other terrorist organizations… but I don’t go to bed at night worried that the IRA wants my children dead and will dance in the streets if their sick plots are successful.

Can’t say the same for Islamic terrorists. Your own dead Muslim victims of 9/11 are a sad testimony to that, aren’t they?

 

[Kouyate42]

Most Muslims are not terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslim. Don’t blame me that so many who follow your faith are bent on destroying America and killing as many people as possible in the process. That doesn’t make for a very “trusting” relationship.

You forget something. My own country was subject to its own terrorist attacks on 7/7 and yes the terrorists were Muslim but it is also important to realize they were also British. Yet when it was reported in the news that it was down to ISlam and all mention of their nationality was completely erased. What should have shocked peope was not that the terroists were Muslims but the fact they had turned on their own countrys citizens. Yet people didnt want to know that and so a convenient hyped up religious label was attached to the whole thing despite Islam abhorring terrrorism.

It is more than possible to be Muslim and to be American or British or indeed any nationality you choose. You might want to rremember that.

The Gunpowder Plot? From the 1600’s?? Are you kidding me? That’s the example you use to show that Muslims aren’t the only terrorists? Do a google seach of Islamic terrorists in this centrury alone and the list is so very long… so many innocent people dead.

Way to ignore my point. I would also argue that much of the Islamic terrorism is done for political reasonings. It can be all too easy to formulate some huge political agenflda and then add to it some sense of plausibility by adding to it a God label as though you are on some divine mission.

You are correct, there are other terrorist organizations… but I don’t go to bed at night worried that the IRA wants my children dead and will dance in the streets if their sick plots are successful.

Can’t say the same for Islamic terrorists. Your own dead Muslim victims of 9/11 are a sad testimony to that, aren’t they?

You still ignore my point. The IRA bombings and attacks killed people indiscriminitely including both Catholics and Protestants. Similarly ETA did much the same. Ditto Al Qaida and their terrorist activities which have killed innocent Muslims all around the world without a thought.

 

[SwizzleStick]

… Way to ignore my point. …

… You still ignore my point…

Oh, the irony.

Sorry, but you do seem to be in deep, deep denial.

 

[Kouyate42]

Oh, the irony.

Sorry, but you do seem to be in deep, deep denial.

I am not in denial about anything.

 

[Armyvet007]

Way to ignore my point.

Would someone mind quoting my posts that are directed toward Kouyate. I can only assume she has not bothered to respond to them because she can not see them, not because she is ignoring them. Thank you.

edit-

Please quote Aaron’s as well. Apparently she is also unable to see his posts. Thank you.