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karebear92
Guest
From the thread? Go up to thread tools and the third one down should say “unsubscribe.”
- Status
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jesuspsr
Guest
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Marybeloved
Guest
Anyone who denies what is in Islam’s own books about Mohammed is just lying to themselves. Why tell us to read church history? We know they’ve been bad/confused Christians from the Popes to the laymen. Are you asking us to compare followers of Christianity to the founder of Islam? Seriously?
And no one is saying that Mohammed did nothing good. He must have! For him to have any credibility or standing among his followers, their must have been a lot of good about him. Unfortunately though, for someone who founds a new religion and claims that it supersedes and replaces all others before him for all time, the standard is a lot higher than “he did some good”. This is made worse by the Quran’s pointing to Mohammed as THE perfect man or the example for all humanity!- And Mohammed unfortunately is painted by Islamic texts themselves as a person who did and caused a lot of evil along with the good.
-Planning ugly assassinations of a 120 year old man, a woman with five children having her breastfeeding baby torn from her breast so that the woman can be murdered for complaining about the murder of the old man, and a Jewish man being called out in the night under pretext of his friends needing help only to be brutally murdered- All because they voiced criticism of him and denounced his prophet-hood publicly!- these represent some of the lowest and most petty of his actions. No violence or antagonism from them, just criticism and he could not tolerate it! Is there any prophet who was not criticized/jeered? How many sent their followers at night to kill their critics? Jesus was called the Devil! And you get upset that people know and point out this evil?
This is the example Muslims look up to as human perfection! No wonder Muslims are so incapable of tolerating any criticism of their Prophet or religion! Would we, if Jesus had reacted to his detractors the way Mohammed did? You really think that doesn’t make a difference?
Peace!
P
Peace_of_cake
Guest
youtube.com/watch?v=j2wHvCXYhx4
I just want people to read a little more broadly. Don’t take my word for it, you’ll see this whole situation is fanned by some. Anyway, as a good-bye please see link if you’re interested.
PS: Sorry Edwin, sounds like you were interesting to talk to, but I just don’t have the time.
Peace
I just want people to read a little more broadly. Don’t take my word for it, you’ll see this whole situation is fanned by some. Anyway, as a good-bye please see link if you’re interested.
PS: Sorry Edwin, sounds like you were interesting to talk to, but I just don’t have the time.
Peace
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scipio337
Guest
Meh. You follow up a double standard with a continuing double standard. Congrats.
Avoiding the elephant in the living room regarding modern Islamic nations’ treatment towards non Muslims duly noted.
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partypilot1
Guest
It’s been my experience here in TN that some of my protestant friends have been swayed toward hate and anger against Muslims. All people of faith must stand fast against trickery used by the evil one to bring hate into their heart. There is no place in heaven for people with hate in their heart.
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pismopal
Guest
Righteous anger and awareness are not hate. Hate is usually counter productive and I have not detected this emotion among my friends and co-religionists. Hate is a word commonly used by people in politics to mean someone with whom they disagree.
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partypilot1
Guest
haha… righteous anger? Are you righteous like the Pharisees and Sadducees? Do you justify your anger often? I suspect if you attach words like righteous to it, then it’s okay.Righteous anger and awareness are not hate. Hate is usually counter productive and I have not detected this emotion among my friends and co-religionists. Hate is a word commonly used by people in politics to mean someone with whom they disagree.
Quoting from wikipedia
“Anger is an emotion related to one’s psychological interpretation of having been offended, wronged or denied and a tendency to undo that by retaliation.”
Anger is a natural human response which must be overcome to allow healing to begin. Do you want healing? Do you believe there will be people in heaven who haven’t been healed? If so, be angry, shake your fist at every person to fill the void in your heart where God once was.
Awareness? Did you check to see if the tree bears fruit or even try to cultivate the land? Well then, what awareness did you provide to others besides picking up the fork and joining a group of misinformed people.
I am Catholic, I love all Gods people. I wear the armor of Faith and carry the shield of good will
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pismopal
Guest
I don’t quite understand what I am accused of or I might try to defend myself:shrug:
Since Christ was righteously angry in the temple I hope you don’t get on His case too.
The rest of your post is not understandable by me except that you seem to be a little self-righteous and…actually a little angry yourself…Have a very nice day!
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partypilot1
Guest
1-accused of? I’m only responding to your statement.I don’t quite understand what I am accused of or I might try to defend myself:shrug:
Since Christ was righteously angry in the temple I hope you don’t get on His case too.
The rest of your post is not understandable by me except that you seem to be a little self-righteous and…actually a little angry yourself…Have a very nice day!
2-Comparing your “righteous anger” to Jesus in the temple. Really?
3-I was citing bible passages which ‘could’ be used regarding awareness
4-My “little self-righteous” is actually a quote from St. Thomas Aquinas (I do enjoy inside jokes)
5-I’m not angry toward you but I will strive in all ways to transmit peace, even if that means straightening out the lines of communication.
I
InSearchofGrace
Guest
There is good reason to distrust Muslims, the violent minority, anyway, with the non-violent majority playing a passive role in the perpetuation of the problem of Islamic violence.
I have always held the view that Muslims (the people) will be unable to free themselves from the yoke of Islam (their religion) that teaches violence on people of other faiths unless reform is instituted from within; that is, Muslims solving a big Muslim problem that affects all others in the world. A good Muslim is one who heeds the teachings of their holy book, including the violent Medinan verses of the Quran which abrogated the peaceful Meccan verses. A good person who is a Muslim is one who ignores the Medinan verses and heeds only the peaceful teachings. If that is not a schizophrenic religious and moral code to live by, I don’t know what is.
It was therefore refreshing to come across a recent article by writer Tawfik Hamid, an Islamic thinker and reformer, and one-time-extremist from Egypt. It outlines the reasons for the justified distrust of Muslims and why there is no consensus on how Muslims are viewed. Importantly, Mr. Hamid proposes what approaches Muslims can utilize as a people towards a solution of the problem.
How to Deal with Radical Islam
Those who deny the existence of any violent teachings in mainstream Islam must face the unavoidable reality that violent teachings do exist, and are still unchallenged in the mainstream Islamic books. This group needs to provide at least one single mainstream-approved Islam book that negates and theologically refutes the violent Sharia concepts.
As long as this approved book does not exist, the problem will remain. Claiming that “Islam is peaceful” without changing the violent teachings is merely unrealistic lip service that aims at deceiving others.
The Bashers need to continue exposing the violent teachings and practices in Islam because exposing such texts and practices is vital to initiate a true reformation within the religion. However, the bashers can also play a role by declaring that they have no problem of peaceful coexistence with a new Islamic teaching which would refute the violent edicts of Sharia and emphasize the peaceful aspects of the religion. This will put more responsibility on the shoulders of the Islamic scholars to change the interpretations of the violent texts if they are truly willing to stop Islamophobia.
The Apologists need to stop the self-flagellation that ignores the ideological component of the problem, as ignoring the role of the ideology impedes efforts for reforming Islam. Muslims will not feel the need to reform if others are telling them that the problem is all about US foreign policy and that it has nothing to do with religious ideology.
Those who use the Idealistic approach can also contribute to solving the problem by stating that tolerance must only be given to peaceful teachings that do not harm other human beings and cannot be applied to the religious teachings that discriminate against or threaten the lives of other human beings. Failure to make this distinction can be fatal.
Followers of the un-objective dishonest approach must adopt an honest and scientific approach that addresses the facts without trying to distort or hide them to serve certain agendas. This group can convey a better message by acknowledging the existence of the violent interpretations and stating that that we need to foster the peaceful interpretations so that they dominate the Islamic jargon and teachings.
Solving the problem of radical Islam will require us to cooperate with one another rather than fight against each other. The responsibility for solving this problem is a joint responsibility that needs the cooperation of different groups not just the actions of a single group.
I have always held the view that Muslims (the people) will be unable to free themselves from the yoke of Islam (their religion) that teaches violence on people of other faiths unless reform is instituted from within; that is, Muslims solving a big Muslim problem that affects all others in the world. A good Muslim is one who heeds the teachings of their holy book, including the violent Medinan verses of the Quran which abrogated the peaceful Meccan verses. A good person who is a Muslim is one who ignores the Medinan verses and heeds only the peaceful teachings. If that is not a schizophrenic religious and moral code to live by, I don’t know what is.
It was therefore refreshing to come across a recent article by writer Tawfik Hamid, an Islamic thinker and reformer, and one-time-extremist from Egypt. It outlines the reasons for the justified distrust of Muslims and why there is no consensus on how Muslims are viewed. Importantly, Mr. Hamid proposes what approaches Muslims can utilize as a people towards a solution of the problem.
How to Deal with Radical Islam
Those who deny the existence of any violent teachings in mainstream Islam must face the unavoidable reality that violent teachings do exist, and are still unchallenged in the mainstream Islamic books. This group needs to provide at least one single mainstream-approved Islam book that negates and theologically refutes the violent Sharia concepts.
As long as this approved book does not exist, the problem will remain. Claiming that “Islam is peaceful” without changing the violent teachings is merely unrealistic lip service that aims at deceiving others.
The Bashers need to continue exposing the violent teachings and practices in Islam because exposing such texts and practices is vital to initiate a true reformation within the religion. However, the bashers can also play a role by declaring that they have no problem of peaceful coexistence with a new Islamic teaching which would refute the violent edicts of Sharia and emphasize the peaceful aspects of the religion. This will put more responsibility on the shoulders of the Islamic scholars to change the interpretations of the violent texts if they are truly willing to stop Islamophobia.
The Apologists need to stop the self-flagellation that ignores the ideological component of the problem, as ignoring the role of the ideology impedes efforts for reforming Islam. Muslims will not feel the need to reform if others are telling them that the problem is all about US foreign policy and that it has nothing to do with religious ideology.
Those who use the Idealistic approach can also contribute to solving the problem by stating that tolerance must only be given to peaceful teachings that do not harm other human beings and cannot be applied to the religious teachings that discriminate against or threaten the lives of other human beings. Failure to make this distinction can be fatal.
Followers of the un-objective dishonest approach must adopt an honest and scientific approach that addresses the facts without trying to distort or hide them to serve certain agendas. This group can convey a better message by acknowledging the existence of the violent interpretations and stating that that we need to foster the peaceful interpretations so that they dominate the Islamic jargon and teachings.
Solving the problem of radical Islam will require us to cooperate with one another rather than fight against each other. The responsibility for solving this problem is a joint responsibility that needs the cooperation of different groups not just the actions of a single group.
I
InSearchofGrace
Guest
Another Article: Searching for a Peaceful Islam
Interview of Tawfik Hamid on Islamic violence and Sharia Law
,
Interview of Tawfik Hamid on Islamic violence and Sharia Law
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schaick
Guest
There should be no hate against Muslims!! Hate Islam.
Muslims have been duped by a self proclaimed prophet. Many can not read the Quran either illiterate or have been told only the Arabic is the true Quran. Many don’t realize the Quran is filled with hate speech and violence.
Once Muslims understand the evils of Islam many leave it. Maybe not outwardly because of the death for apostasy clause but in their hearts.
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pismopal
Guest
I did not accuse “peace of cake” of being a muslim because I hate muslims. I made the accusation after reading ALL…everyone of his posts on this blog. He neglected to list his religious affiliation on his profile and was asked by a moderator to declare one just for purposes of clarity. His response in writting was terse but unambiguous…“Catholic”. His defense of islam and Muhammad could be mistaken for a person bending over backwards to be “fair”…to a point. But this stuff went on and on and was very remindful of discussions I have had with other muslims on another blog. The fact that he was trying to bluff other posters into believing that he is highly educated and that they should do a lot of reading before disagreeing with him was annoying but not the last straw. I am guessing that he is a Brit of Pakistani descent but whatever he is…I don’t buy that he is a Catholic…no way, no how.
I am sometimes blunt…because of my background but I don’t mean to be impolite or sound pushy or un Christian. I do have a hard time with people who have a license to lie and mislead issued by the founder of the most aggressive “faith” ever to visit the planet.
peace and vigilance
I am sometimes blunt…because of my background but I don’t mean to be impolite or sound pushy or un Christian. I do have a hard time with people who have a license to lie and mislead issued by the founder of the most aggressive “faith” ever to visit the planet.
peace and vigilance
M
Marybeloved
Guest
I do understand exactly what you mean, my friend. I have also confronted Peace of Cake before (by the way I believe she’s female, not a ‘he’) on another thread about the way she comes off like a Muslim posing as a Catholic. She assured me that she’s Catholic and I got the impression that she was in some inter-religious study/ecumenical effort, as she knew somethings about Catholicism.I did not accuse “peace of cake” of being a muslim because I hate muslims. I made the accusation after reading ALL…everyone of his posts on this blog. He neglected to list his religious affiliation on his profile and was asked by a moderator to declare one just for purposes of clarity. His response in writting was terse but unambiguous…“Catholic”. His defense of islam and Muhammad could be mistaken for a person bending over backwards to be “fair”…to a point. But this stuff went on and on and was very remindful of discussions I have had with other muslims on another blog. The fact that he was trying to bluff other posters into believing that he is highly educated and that they should do a lot of reading before disagreeing with him was annoying but not the last straw. I am guessing that he is a Brit of Pakistani descent but whatever he is…I don’t buy that he is a Catholic…no way, no how.
I am sometimes blunt…because of my background but I don’t mean to be impolite or sound pushy or un Christian. I do have a hard time with people who have a license to lie and mislead issued by the founder of the most aggressive “faith” ever to visit the planet.
peace and vigilance
I don’t know if Peace of Cake is a Muslim, she could just be a very progressive Christian/Catholic who’s involved with ecumenism with Muslims .
What gives me a 
is that she appears offended by “attacks” (just simple direct criticisms) on Mohammed, both places I’ve encountered her. Not just that she’s upset by attacks on Muslims, as you’d expect from a progressive (and good Catholics). This also makes me suspicious, like you, that she has a personal investment in him, which would mean that she’s a Muslim, at least in belief. :shrug:If she is, it makes sense that she would get upset- I would if someone said something I considered nasty about Our Lord or even Our Lady (For us, though -thank God- they are absolutely flawless b any standard and any accusations of ‘nasty’ on their part clearly traces to nothing more than prejudice). But if she’s Catholic as she says…then this behavior really is very curious.Peace!
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pismopal
Guest
Marybeloved
Thanks for the information. She will no doubt re-appear…maybe under another moniker…but the grammar and thoughts are quite distinctive.
Thanks for the information. She will no doubt re-appear…maybe under another moniker…but the grammar and thoughts are quite distinctive.
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karebear92
Guest
Hello, I just have a quick question: when you say that you distrust Muslims, are you speaking on a large scale, such as countries? Or are you speaking on an isolated one, such as you don’t trust the average American Muslim walking down the street? If the former, we were arguing about very, very different things, and I would like to apologize for misinterpreting your stance.
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PbloPicasso
Guest
Catholics don’t trust themselves. Why would they trust anyone else?As title suggests… Discuss
On a more honest note, not that I like to be rude. I was raised to be polite. However, if I am to be truthful about my thoughts and feelings I have to say, I don’t trust Muslims either after studying their rise to power over the past 22 years. All I find is violence. Mohamed in my opinion, had too much time on his hands and I suspect he was seriously delusional, some sort of self-made-prophet… oh, that’s right, he was. The problem I have is that his writings portray a peaceful teaching in areas of the Koran, but in others’ he’s pretty hostile towards “infidels” and wants them dead. This is the result of being allowed to express he thoughts among his followers. Initically Islam was passed more peacefully, but over time they waged war to convert or die. This is not new information. We see the same thing happening now in the middle east. Do you judge the beliefs of Russians based on the way they treat us here in the U.S. or whereever? I think not. They tend to act more polite, just as many of us do outside of our jurisdiction. Bring someone home and they’ll see a completely different side you you.
Let’s put it this way. I trust Muslims as much as I trust Communists or corporate attorneys. History reveals the truth.
C
Contarini
Guest
I don’t care about you being blunt. I care that you have engaged in malicious speculation and that your reasons are patently flimsy.I did not accuse “peace of cake” of being a muslim because I hate muslims. I made the accusation after reading ALL…everyone of his posts on this blog. He neglected to list his religious affiliation on his profile and was asked by a moderator to declare one just for purposes of clarity. His response in writting was terse but unambiguous…“Catholic”. His defense of islam and Muhammad could be mistaken for a person bending over backwards to be “fair”…to a point. But this stuff went on and on and was very remindful of discussions I have had with other muslims on another blog. The fact that he was trying to bluff other posters into believing that he is highly educated and that they should do a lot of reading before disagreeing with him was annoying but not the last straw. I am guessing that he is a Brit of Pakistani descent but whatever he is…I don’t buy that he is a Catholic…no way, no how.
I am sometimes blunt…because of my background but I don’t mean to be impolite or sound pushy or un Christian. I do have a hard time with people who have a license to lie and mislead issued by the founder of the most aggressive “faith” ever to visit the planet.
peace and vigilance
C
Contarini
Guest
How?
I’m not “avoiding” anything. I’m not disputing that Muslims often continue to behave in a persecutory way that has generally been abandoned by Christians. Nothing about my argument is affected by this in any way.
I repeat: when Christians hold that the Church only recently began to be the true Church, your chronological segregation will make sense. Until then it doesn’t. Of course the fact that Christians have improved in this regard is a good thing, and the fact that Muslims haven’t improved so much (and perhaps in some areas have actually gotten worse) is very disturbing. And this may indeed say something about the two religions as a whole. But any comparison must include the entire history of both religions.
Edwin
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