Why do Catholics Have a Persecution Complex?

[Carlus_Magnus]

The minute non-catholic acquaintances find out I’m Catholic the jibes about Mary, saints, justification etc etc start. No amount of apologetics usually works they still go away with little or no respect for Catholics or the Church. Our Mary statue was desecrated at our church and various other vandalism throughout the years. I see the prejudice plenty, and we do have a right and an obligation to defend our faith.

Yep, they desecrated a statue of our Lord a few months back at my Church.

 

[theAuthor]

Yes, Carlus, I have been to a Latin Mass. It was nice, with the incense. The only reason I knew what was going on was because I’d heard it in English before.

cpayne, why do you think faculty members despise Catholics rather than lumping Catholics with other Christians? I find that interesting, because when I’ve debated atheists, they’ve been more the other way around. The intelligensia cafe set I thought had more of a problem with the extreme right wing, Bush and fundamentalist protestantism.

Semper Fi, that is a horrible story.

 

[GuanYuWarGod]

The first time I heard the word “Persecution Complex” was a few months back. I was in Yahoo and this Dutch atheist (Again, I have NOTHING against atheists or atheism and the Dutch ) asked the public if homosexuality was a sin. I replied that it wasn’t a sin in itself but if used for immoral means, it becomes a sin. (My answer was obviously much more descriptive and longer than that.) I also mentioned that the Catholic Church recommends celibacy for homosexuals. At this point, he (obviously) discovered I was a Catholic. He then decided to have a one-on-one with me. I also discovered that he seemed to think that once a homosexual becomes a homosexual, that homosexual is homosexual until he dies. I reasoned that that idea was very untrue since any person can change preferences. Upon knowing that I disagreed with his viewpoint, he immediately accussed me of having a “persecution complex” and mentioned as well that he’d want to “research more on why Christians have a persecution complex”. Obviously, I felt very disgusted with his remark since I, in all honesty, had not meant any harm to him since it was a mere discussion. Pretty sad some people in this world.

God Bless,

 

[Ani_Ibi]

davidarlette:

1. Would Karl Keating agree? I don’t care (shock horror ). I worship neither Karl Keating, nor Scott Hahn. I’m a bigger fan of Fulton Sheen and St.Augustine.

Relevance? Do you worship Fulton Sheen and St.Augustine, for instance? Why would you have to worship Karl Keating to respond coherently to what he writes about the persecution of the Church?

What does Karl Keating say? What I am getting at is how can you reasonably claim that you don’t care if you are not willing to set forth what KK says and comment directly to what KK says.

Why have you not responded to any of the examples of persecution I have given you: losing jobs, banning ‘all’ religious symbols except those which are not Catholic, bellowing lies in public about the Church, running up the aisles of the Cathedral in the middle of the Mass and screaming abuse against the Church?

Here is a link to CCRL and to the Catholic League. Are you suggesting that none of that coverage is about the persecution of Catholics?
davidarlette:

Not discounting the personal experiences of the people who have shared here

Actually you are discounting those experiences.
davidarlette:

It seems to be part of Catholic psyche whether real (as in the posters here), or imagined.

I don’t understand this statement. Would you clarify please? What relevance does being part of our psyche have to whether or not these examples of persecution actually happen? Either persecution is real or it is not real. Would you not agree with that assessment?

Persecution is not part of my psyche. We can only respond to what we experience; what we observe. We cannot spindoctor what we experience or observe just to fit a tidy idea that Catholics are not persecuted in a secular humanist society.

What I suggest might be happening here is that some folks have not experienced persecution firsthand or been aware of the persecution happening around them to other Catholics. So they conclude that persecution is not happening at all to anyone. Even in the face of all the examples offered thusfar on this thread.

And that is blaming the victim!

Sure anti-Catholicism is at the very least embarrassing and more frequently just plain ugly. Does that mean we should sweep it under the rug and pretend that it is not happening? If so, then perhaps someone should let the CCRL and the League know so that they can fire their employees and shut down their organizations because why are they operating if their is no persecution of the Church?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

cpayne:

After all, all “right-thinking” people are anti-Catholic, in their worldview, and regularly sneer at Catholicism whenever the topic comes up. It’s just common practice.

Yes most of this aC hate propaganda is at the level of ‘a nod’s as good as a wink.’ Not only are aC attacks accepted in society, they are expected. And the looks of self-righteous astonishment when you ask anyone to prove their point of view or if you bring to bear a refutation!

cpayne:

My students who are Christians, on the other hand, do not despise Catholics. They just tend to think of Catholics as evangelization opportunities for the REAL Christians.

Have they encountered the concept of ‘what’s good for the goose is good for the gander’ yet?

cpayne:

But I love them all.

I love my students too. That’s why I boundary the discussions. I have removed students from my classes who attacked other students. The victims of those attacks now know that I am watching their backs.

 

[JoeyWarren]

You really need to see other places on the net, which is ardently antiCatholic with extreme prejudice and will treat you like you are a criminal if they think you are Catholic.

I have experienced that first hand. Some forums will not even let you join if you state up front, you are Catholic, doesn’t sound very Christian to me, hence my signature.

Come to the South my friend, these Protestants down here are as friendly as a pack of wolves to anything that even looks Catholic

TELL IT LIKE IT IS BROTHER. Australia must be nice place to live. no anti-catholicism there according to David.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Originally Posted by davidarlette
Not discounting the personal experiences of the people who have shared here

Discount this one: My entire family on my father’s side believe me, my wife, and my children are all going to hell because we belong to the Catholic Church.

 

[cpayne]

cpayne, why do you think faculty members despise Catholics rather than lumping Catholics with other Christians? I find that interesting, because when I’ve debated atheists, they’ve been more the other way around. The intelligensia cafe set I thought had more of a problem with the extreme right wing, Bush and fundamentalist protestantism.

They do have the issues you describe with fundamentalism and Pentecostalism. In my experience, the intelligentsia despises these people because they think they’re stupid and dangerous and socially “beyond the pale”; on the other hand, they despise Catholics because they think most Catholics are also stupid and dangerous, but Catholicism also has its strong intellectual component which is smart and dangerous. Catholics are anti-female, anti-science, anti-progress, anti-tolerance, and so on: these are not just attitudes, but actual accusations I have heard. (From friends!) As a fundamentalist Pentecostal turning Catholic but with some academic credentials, I think I’m sort of a puzzle to them. Good thing I’m so charming.

I don’t think they think of mainstream Protestantism as a threat. On what issues would they differ?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

cpayne:

…Catholicism also has its strong intellectual component which is smart and dangerous. Catholics are anti-female, anti-science, anti-progress, anti-tolerance, and so on: these are not just attitudes, but actual accusations I have heard. (From friends!)

I’ve heard these accusation from folks claiming to be Catholic! So far we have not discussed the persecution of the Church from within.

:coffeeread:

cpayne:

I don’t think they think of mainstream Protestantism as a threat. On what issues would they differ?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Discount this one: My entire family on my father’s side believe me, my wife, and my children are all going to hell because we belong to the Catholic Church.

My friend’s family have decided that they are justified in withholding his inheritance on the basis of his ‘disordered thinking’ as proven by his adherence to Catholicism!

 

[Kay_Cee]

I was the OP.

I would have to say that it is clear that anti-Catholic sentiment seems to be worse in the US from what I am reading. I would like to say a few things though, in reply to some posts:

1. To the teacher whose class was broken into: ever thought it may have just been teenagers? Not feeling guilty abnout WWII are you? I mean, those people were probably not educated enough to understand politics surrounding WWII, just rebelling.

You have got to be kidding.

First of all, I don’t care what age the person or persons were. What difference does that make? Persecution is persecution, regardless of the age of the persecutors.

Second, why on earth would I feel guilty about WWII? I wasn’t even alive during that time! And my Church has nothing to feel guilty about either. Read *The Myth of Hitler’s Pope: How Pope Pius XII Rescued Jews from the Nazis *if you don’t believe me. And lest you think that book was written from a pro-Catholic bias, it was written by a rabbi.

The fact that there were *swastikas *left in the room tell me this was intended as a hate crime, as deliberate persecution. The fact that swastikas were carved on my church’s window sill tells me that was a hate crime too.

If these things happened at a Jewish school or synagogue, nobody would question that they were persecution. Because we’re Catholic, all of a sudden it’s questionable?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Kay Cee:

Second, why on earth would I feel guilty about WWII?

I know. This struck me as bizarre too. Didn’t yall come to the rescue of the persecuted in Europe and Asia? What’s to feel guilty about that one?
Kay Cee:

If these things happened at a Jewish school or synagogue, nobody would question that they were persecution. Because we’re Catholic, all of a sudden it’s questionable?

Exactly. Because anti-Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice. By the way, now that the subject of WW2 persecution has been opened, how many Catholics were led away to the death camps? Anyone know?

 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

I guess that I will dissent from the majority of posters here, and I will say that I have heard many Catholics say negative things about other faiths, especially Protestant Christians. I think it’s important to remember that bigotry is not the hallmark of one creed, ethnicity or organization. I think that people will often use one or a few instances of “persecution” to justify labelling a whole group of people. I’m sure there are people who do happen to hate Catholics, but I’m also sure there are Catholics who hate people from other faiths. Unfortunately, I’ve seen both. I’ve heard certain Protestants say that Catholics are not Christian, but on the other hand, I’ve heard certain Catholics say that Protestants are heretics. I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion, as long as they don’t start throwing hand grenades.

I do not agree that Catholics are the last acceptable target of liberals or anyone else. I’ve heard fundamentalists, muslims, and others insulted as well. The truth is, I believe in free speech, even it’s ugly. If a person is rude, i.e, insulting, then you know the person is a jerk, but political correctness is way out of control these days.

 

[richardwy]

In relation to another thread “Why do people hate us (Catholics) so much?” I would like to ask why Catholics seem to have a bit of a persecution complex. What negative experiences have people actually had? Some Baptist wrote an anti-Catholic website. So???

When I asked a priest what Catholics thought of other denominations attacking Catholicism, his response was, “Well we are so big, that we just tend not to worry what these other smaller churches think of us. We view them with kindness as brothers, but we certainaly don’t feel threatened in any way.” I have always kept that in mind.

Maybe it would encourage my Catholic brothers and sisters to keep in mind the size of our Church, and that there is no real threat to Her. We can just sit back and relax from a position of strength.

Just silly. Ask 1,000 people from any group, and you’ll get answers out the wazoo.

 

[Contarini]

In relation to another thread “Why do people hate us (Catholics) so much?” I would like to ask why Catholics seem to have a bit of a persecution complex. What negative experiences have people actually had? Some Baptist wrote an anti-Catholic website. So???

When I asked a priest what Catholics thought of other denominations attacking Catholicism, his response was, “Well we are so big, that we just tend not to worry what these other smaller churches think of us. We view them with kindness as brothers, but we certainaly don’t feel threatened in any way.” I have always kept that in mind.

Maybe it would encourage my Catholic brothers and sisters to keep in mind the size of our Church, and that there is no real threat to Her. We can just sit back and relax from a position of strength.

I agree, but many folks on this board live in the American South. I grew up in that culture myself. It is predominantly Baptist and very aggressive in tone. Catholics are despised, reviled from the pulpit, ridiculed. Fundamentalists leave viciously anti-Catholic tracts on Catholic cars. In another thread recently, a YouTube video was posted which showed a fundamentalist bursting into Mass and ranting and raving about the evils of Catholicism.

I agree that all of this is very small potatoes compared to much of the persecution that has gone on in the past (in which Catholics have been both victims and perpetrators at various times). However, it’s no fun for people who are undergoing it, and it does lead to a certain paranoia and defensiveness.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

They do have the issues you describe with fundamentalism and Pentecostalism. In my experience, the intelligentsia despises these people because they think they’re stupid and dangerous and socially “beyond the pale”; on the other hand, they despise Catholics because they think most Catholics are also stupid and dangerous, but Catholicism also has its strong intellectual component which is smart and dangerous. Catholics are anti-female, anti-science, anti-progress, anti-tolerance, and so on: these are not just attitudes, but actual accusations I have heard. (From friends!) As a fundamentalist Pentecostal turning Catholic but with some academic credentials, I think I’m sort of a puzzle to them. Good thing I’m so charming.

I don’t think they think of mainstream Protestantism as a threat. On what issues would they differ?

Well, lots (if they are secularists). But not as many as with Catholicism or conservative Protestantism (which is arguably the “mainstream” these days–the word I think you want is “mainline” which is not quite the same thing).

I basically agree with your characterization above. The secular intelligentsia despises fundamentalism, but hates Catholicism. This has some odd results. For instance, I studied early Christianity with an ex-Christian (specifically ex-Presbyterian, I believe) radical feminist. This actually pushed me toward Catholicism, if anything, because she repeatedly and systematically demolished Protestant myths about the early Church. (In fact, she’s been working in recent years on a study of the origins of American Protestant patristic scholarship, and told me that one of her main arguments will be that it was fundamentally motivated by anti-Catholicism.) She frequently spoke with respect of Catholic patristic scholarship (indeed, I was hearing about people such as Danielou and De Lubac from her as scholars at the same time that my Catholic friends were recommending them to me as theologians!). And yet, when she once overheard me say to someone that I was thinking of becoming Catholic, she was rather shocked. And in one of my first encounters with her, when I came to Duke as a prospective grad student, she spoke in what I thought was a somewhat gleeful tone about the people who had left religious orders while being grad students at Duke (ironically, one of her own grad students converted to Catholicism. . . . ). In other words, she saw Catholicism as an ideological enemy, but one that had to be taken very seriously. She seemed to think much less of the intellectual claims of Protestantism, even in its mainline form (which was the form she had abandoned).

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Edwin, what was the name of the Church?

Haroldswick Methodist Church.

Edwin