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ProVobis
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Don’t the Protestants also believe this? Before they proceed to translate it and interpret it for themselves, that is.
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benjohnson
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My $.02:
I’m Lutheran, though I’ve participated in a fair amount of Catholic Masses and have loved them immensely. I will say this: Some Catholic churches lack a sense of community - and this is disastrous in my opinion.
As the secular world gets weirder and weirder, we all need a good church community to shape out own society.
So if you’re Catholic - I would encourage each other to join the KoC, Pro-Life groups, and even serve coffee after service. Anything to build up your Catholic community that surrounds your church.
I’m Lutheran, though I’ve participated in a fair amount of Catholic Masses and have loved them immensely. I will say this: Some Catholic churches lack a sense of community - and this is disastrous in my opinion.
As the secular world gets weirder and weirder, we all need a good church community to shape out own society.
So if you’re Catholic - I would encourage each other to join the KoC, Pro-Life groups, and even serve coffee after service. Anything to build up your Catholic community that surrounds your church.
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PRmerger
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PRmerger
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ProVobis
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Have you visited multi-lingual parishes?
In some churches they wouldn’t be caught dead doing that. When I used to attend Holy Name Catholic Cathedral in Chicago, I would see hoards of protesters every Sunday. You name the issue, they protested and made the Sunday news.
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pnewton
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I grew up Baptist and I think your point is valid. Too many attend, but never connect. Community is what one makes of it. I sympathize with the one who has a hard time taking initiative to make friends, but if the shy person can buck it up and push themselves for a while, the rewards can last a lifetime.
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pickerij
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Good point!
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crazzeto
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Funny you should say that, because I’ve done exactly the bolded, and while I’m not formerly the member of a primarly prolife group I spend a lot of time interacting with many such groups (mostly via social media, but still).
Lots of ways to become involved and build up a more positive community around your self. I also recommend church groups, for instance my wife and I do quite a bit with our Young Adult ministry as well. Bible studies, pot lucks etc.
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crazzeto
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Further, at least in my experience these groups are very open armed and are just silly happy to welcome you in. I think for the shy person they’ll be shocked at how disarming it can be. Worth a shot big time
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jacobhalo
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The pope hasn’t spoken ex cathedra (infallibly) since about 1951. Before that in the late 1870’s.
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benjohnson
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That’s an interesting point - I do see a sense of community around Catholic parishes that have a large recent-immigrant population.
In Lutheran churches, you see that too if there’s a large Swedish, Norwegian, or German population.
What is hard though is when our populations become more ‘American’ without roots in a diaspora culture - there seems to be a tendency to become more secular and oriented to the TV and entertainment.
…
Catholics have a true reverence for the Mass that inspiring - you hear the Word and then have the Meal.
But…
In a Lutheran service, we have a period before the Word where we can be a bit less formal: It’s here where you hear about upcoming events, the pastor speaks to the children, we hear about deaths and opportunities to help one another.
I don’t think Catholics should emulate this. Keeping the Mass holy and separate from the world has it’s charm.
But my advice would be this: Help build up a culture of socializing after the mass with coffee and donuts, and perhaps at 15 minutes in, someone could recap upcoming events and opportunities. That way when someone decides that they may want to skip Mass, they would also be skipping out on their Catholic friends - and sometimes that would be all they need to stay motivated.
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MaryT777
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Definitely!Further, at least in my experience these groups are very open armed and are just silly happy to welcome you in. I think for the shy person they’ll be shocked at how disarming it can be. Worth a shot big time
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Annabelle_Marie
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as I read your post…I notice the…“I feel, I don’t like” - God does not change according to what we feel or like.
A previous poster pointed out that there are very limited times that a Pope will use the infallible option. Pope’s go to confession like everyone else.
I can’t do anything about the exclusion of females for priesthood…that will always be. I don’t mind it all, there are plenty of roles for us besides being a priest. But then again I don’t like it in Protestant churches either.
God is everywhere…but how do we respond to him? What does it say when we won’t set aside even an hour for Him each week to be at Mass? What are we doing that is more important then being with Him? Also, it’s important for the Body of Christ (all your brothers and sisters) to worship together.
My two cents…
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GWright
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1) Poor (or often, no) catechesis. The faith is not explained to children. Schools do not do Catechism class anymore to avoid charges of indoctrination. Most parents do not bother at home. Accordingly, the faith - and its relevance to our daily lives - is not widely or well understood, and so becomes seen as being redundant or anachronistic.
**2) **We let secular values trample our own, and let ourselves be misrepresented. Our moral arguments are never presented intellectually / supported with evidence. When young Catholics hear secular criticism of our values on (eg) abortion, condoms or homosexuality, they often do not know how to defend the teaching - because its never been explained to them. Accordingly, they are often easy prey for manipulative secular arguments, which distort matters to make the Church seem cold or outmoded. Cruel, even.
The Church positions are often supported by scientific knowledge - eg abortion (human embryology) and homosexuality (human biology) - yet how many people know that? Public health experts agree with us regarding condoms as a primary means to fight HIV - how many people know that? Instead, we let secular society portray us as credulous simpletons (of course, the existence of certain protestant groups is what allows Christianity to be mocked like this).
**3) **In the rich west, we are largely cut off from what it means to be human. We have everything we need at our fingertips. We do not know hunger, or the cold, or genuine menace. We never have to face extreme circumstances, like in the third world. We are insulated from reality by the media and celebrity cultures. We live in a fantasy world, which wastes several times more in food than it gives in aid.
Many people, including Catholics, are taken in by the false gods of sex, money, vanity, celebrity - which is all that appears to matter to secular society. People are lazy, people are greedy, people only care about themselves and that they are getting enough of the false gods - money, sex etc. People do not think about their lives, their behaviours, their souls. They generally do not think about their souls due to the poor or no catechesis I mentioned before.
- People do not know the real beauty and majesty of the Catholic religion and culture. Many people are put off by cheesy modern fashions such as holding hands, guitars and clapping - and no wonder. Our traditional forms of worship can for many represent a more reverent / religious / emotional connection with proceedings at mass - a better appeal, if you will. Its my opinion that participation in religious services would be of a higher order - particularly amongst men - if we did things more traditionally and in more places.
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odile53
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You know, I’ve thought a lot about lack of catechesis, especially since I joined CAF. The primary aim of school age catechesis is to get the kids through the sacraments, or so it seems to me. The programs themselves nowadays frequently are given by volunteer laypeople, God bless them, and in some parishes it seems that supervision by the pastor is pretty minimal, to my eyes, anyways. Once school children are confirmed, that’s pretty much it in terms of faith formation and education for the greater number of them.
Even when a child is home-schooled by parents, catechesis can be pretty much catch-as-catch-can, depending on how well the parents themselves are prepared to teach the faith. And it pretty much falls on adults to get their own information.
Sorry, phone. Will write more later.
Even when a child is home-schooled by parents, catechesis can be pretty much catch-as-catch-can, depending on how well the parents themselves are prepared to teach the faith. And it pretty much falls on adults to get their own information.
Sorry, phone. Will write more later.
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crazzeto
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I think the main thing here is we can not rely on the church alone to Catechize. Now the church has stepped up efforts, but I was one of those CCD volenteers. You’ll be supprised how frequently children who are up for first communion say “this is the only time my parents will take me to mass, once I’m done we’re not going anymore”.
As parents we need to take the faith seriously, and wear it on our sleeves.
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Brandall
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I imagine that you preach to the choir when you say something in this forum. The fact of life is that for whatever myriad of reasons, it isn’t unusual for faith not to be taught in the home. I’m not saying that’s a good thing but it is something that is prevalent.
Therefore, when the church has them for what little time that they do, it is so very important that best practices are used to educate the little ones as much as possible. It might be all they ever get until they decide in adulthood they want more.
At the church I attend, the director of adult education has stated that those that go through RCIA probably know more than 90% of the church membership. It shouldn’t be that way. However, those that go through RCIA are doing it because they have a hunger. They may be more willing and anxious to absorb.
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MaryT777
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Yes, nicely stated. I taught Catechism for five years and when one is an adult
one is more ABLE also to absorb for the long term. I considered myself as planting
seeds especially for the younger ones. ( I taught K-4)
Mary.
Brandall, Welcome to CAF… First post I’ve seen of yours and looking forward to seeing
more.
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Kush
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I guess for me the church just stopped making sense. One day you just wake up, and re-evaluate what you have been told to belive in. jelous angry gods, demons, devils, angels, nohas arc, Johnnas whale, people living to be 900,… and it hits you…
It stops being what you belive in.
now, here is the good news. You don’t nessisarily become a pure athiest when you stop beliving… you start searching for god in your own way… and you find what works best for you. The church may work for others, but for those of us who left… were still spiritual… we just don’t live by the “fear” taught to us by this organization keeping us beliving in what we just know cannot be true.
It stops being what you belive in.
now, here is the good news. You don’t nessisarily become a pure athiest when you stop beliving… you start searching for god in your own way… and you find what works best for you. The church may work for others, but for those of us who left… were still spiritual… we just don’t live by the “fear” taught to us by this organization keeping us beliving in what we just know cannot be true.
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clem456
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I’m sorry you experienced the gospel of fear.
I would just say that I find the ultimate good news in the sacrifice of Christ. Imitating that sacrifice in my own life just plain works for me, and for everyone for that matter. If people would not live sacrificially, the world would stop working.
As far as believing what cannot be true, the Church does not take the scriptures as literalist history. This is a long discussion, but the Church does not believe the world is 4000 years old or that people lived to 900 years old.
The next time your family gathers, think about the stories that are told around the table. Does everyone have the same exact historical recollection of events? No. Similar with scripture. But the spiritual truth in those stories is the real truth, not the verifiable facts. The real truth is that, for instance, dad was a generous man, or that mom had a nasty temper and punished us severely for whatever…
Or the scene of an accident or crime. No two witness will tell the same factual story. But that’s not the point whether someone was murdered with a gun or run over by a car. The point is that a man died and no one helped him,etc…,.
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