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PRmerger
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Then how is it that you know anything about God?
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ExCatholicGuy
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I don’t.
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PRmerger
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J_the_Centrist
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Yeah and how did you come to those conclusions? Your professors? Watching bias news sources like MSNBC? Hollywood? Perhaps you wanted to annoy your parents. Whatever it was, even if it wasn’t among the examples I described, most of the lapsed Catholics I know, as well as those in the public eye left predominately for those reasons, based on their own words.
How do I know? You might ask, well, I am a former Agnostic who knows very well the reasons why most people leave and exactly why many come back.
Much of the reason’s why I left was a combination of all of those mentioned above and now that I am completing my master’s, the more educated I become the more my faith is strengthened. I can only imagine how strong my faith will be by the time I complete my doctorate, LOL.
In case your wondering, yes, I hated Christianity in my Agnostic years as you might yourself and no I don’t hate you. I also do not care if you ever come back, that is your business, not mine.
Pax Vobiscum
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J_the_Centrist
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I will also add that I am not in the business of converting people, Bible’s are widely available, if you ever wanted to “come home” as I did you would know exactly where to look. I hope you do not mistake my honesty for hostility, nothing can be further from the truth. Peace be with you!
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PJM
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A question for you my friend.
You know of course all actions have consequences?
Have you an understanding of what your decision is?
Because there is but One God; there can logically be only One set of true Faith beliefs. God simply cannot hold contrary views on LONG defined issues:shrug:
Sure all the protestant faiths do their own thing too. But are they really without consequences? Or will they too be judged on what God MAKES POSSIBLE for them to know.
No where in the bible does God suggest that contray faith beliefs are OK with Him.
Truth has to be a singular thing.
God permits BUT does NOT Condone denail of it. This is a thought worth praying about.
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J_the_Centrist
Guest
Threatening people with the fires of Hell is not an effective or a very Christian approach towards unbelievers. Bibles are widely circulated, if he wants to “come home” he knows where to look. His reaction to your words would have probably been similar to my own during my Agnostic years and I hated it when Christians suggested such things, almost as much as I hated Christianity itself. Sibling in Christ, that was not nice and if I may say so, quite mean. Pax VobiscumA question for you my friend.
You know of course all actions have consequences?
Have you an understanding of what your decision is?
Because there is but One God; there can logically be only One set of true Faith beliefs. God simply cannot hold contrary views on LONG defined issues:shrug:
Sure all the protestant faiths do their own thing too. But are they really without consequences? Or will they too be judged on what God MAKES POSSIBLE for them to know.
No where in the bible does God suggest that contray faith beliefs are OK with Him.
Truth has to be a singular thing.
God permits BUT does NOT Condone denail of it. This is a thought worth praying about.
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PeterGStanley
Guest
Most of the people I know were only there in body - they were just going through the motions and eventually fell away.My brother when we were kids was with me on the alter as an alter boy for 8 years never understood anything and did it simply because our father wanted us to be up there on the alter ( I wanted to be an alter boy but there was no such thing as saying no to the old man so my brother was forced ) he’s an atheist today and gets extremely angry if religion is discussed and said he never believed from day one. That is a problem with cradle Catholics - parents naturally think they believe and don’t really question the subject at a young age assuming they understand and believe. My old man if I dared say I didn’t believe would of beat me until I said I did Lol - of course I did believe there was no question about that for me - I laugh now at how old man handled things it seem ridiculous now but those were the times. All my brothers and sisters stopped going to church and don’t believe anymore - I,m the only one that made it.
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J_the_Centrist
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Wow, all of your brothers and sisters are Atheists now? I and my sister believe very strongly, my youngest brother is still too young to tell yet (9), but he believes for now at least. My oldest brother is an Agnostic, but not particularly hostile. My other brother is nominal, but at least he doesn’t listen to Bill Maher any more, like me who used to listen to him and most who no longer do, he simply grew up.
I am a former Agnostic myself and unlike my brother and like yours, I hated Christianity with all the invective that you could possibly imagine, even wishing people of faith harm. This is how I know many non-Theists wish us harm, my former views were in no way isolated to my person. It sounds like your older than I am, but who knows, perhaps your siblings will come around. Peace be with you and your family!
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PJM
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FRIEND, tell that to God; that’s who they are quoting=J the Centrist;10604429]Threatening people with the fires of Hell is not an effective or a very Christian approach towards unbelievers. Bibles are widely circulated, if he wants to “come home” he knows where to look. His reaction to your words would have probably been similar to my own during my Agnostic years and I hated it when Christians suggested such things, almost as much as I hated Christianity itself. Sibling in Christ, that was not nice and if I may say so, quite mean. Pax Vobiscum
TRUTH is and must be singular. And IMO truth is its own form of charity.
ALSO as a FYI:
I hold strongly to the view that ONLY God can and does convert people. Our task is:
To Know well our Faith
To Live it publically
To share it when GOD presents the opportunity’
To Defend it when necessary
THAT said I find your post very interestering. What do YOU suggest the approach be:shrug:
GOD BLESS YOU and thanks for sharing your views.
Pat/PJM
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PJM
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THANKS for shareing Peter.
You accepted God’s grace; the others freely choose not too.
God COMMITS Himself to offering everyone sufficient grace to that they could choose to be saved.
My brother and sister were raised in a Catholic Orphage. He started his OWN chuch and she;s a Fundamentalist christian. Like you; thank GOD; I’m solidly Catholic.
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J_the_Centrist
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Knowing, defending, living your faith publicly, etc., these are things we both agree on. Have you ever left the faith? I have and I can tell you that condescension will not cause anyone to convert, righteous actions will. The Franciscan friars who have been feeding the homeless everyday since the Great Depression here in NYC had a huge impact on me and when Christians used the words you used it only drew me farther away from Christianity. I would and do defend our faith tooth and nail, but I guess my methods differ from yours. God bless you as well and may He give you peace.FRIEND, tell that to God; that’s who they are quoting
TRUTH is and must be singular. And IMO truth is its own form of charity.
ALSO as a FYI:
I hold strongly to the view that ONLY God can and does convert people. Our task is:
To Know well our Faith
To Live it publically
To share it when GOD presents the opportunity’
To Defend it when necessary
THAT said I find your post very interestering. What do YOU suggest the approach be:shrug:
GOD BLESS YOU and thanks for sharing your views.
Pat/PJM
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Seeking_Him_1
Guest
I’m in the process of leaving for one reason–Pope Francis. I really, really can’t stand this guy, and there’s no way I’m going to subjugate myself to his style of leading. Francis needs to stop with all of the phony humility and start acting like a pope should. Until then, I’m out of the Church. I’m done. I’m back to being a Methodist.
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DannyGR
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What makes his humility phony? Could it not be how the media portrays him, perhaps?
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RNKAY
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Pope Francis is not a legitimate reason to leave the church! Seriously? He is a good guy.
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Oneofthewomen
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Sounds like you never left in the first place.
Having left the Church as a young adult, I used the very same excuse, only it was JPII. But my friend, it was an excuse, nothing more. It wasn’t the Pope, or the priests or the people of the parish that made me leave, it was my own willfulness & stubborness. If you do some praying & soul-searching, I believe that you will find the same.
Peace be with you on your journey!
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agnes_therese
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Sounds like you’ve been looking for a reason to leave, because this isn’t one. We’re sorry to see you leave the one Church founded by Christ.
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PRmerger
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I suggest you find the church that Christ established, then join it and conform your views to that church.
Don’t find a church that conforms to your own views, then join it.
For that is the epitome of creating a god in your own image, no?
If you believe that the CC is the Church established by Christ (and no other church can trace its ancestry back to Christ except for the CC, and, arguably, the Orthodox church), then you ought to remain in that Church.
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Elizabeth502
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I’m interested in hearing more about what makes you uncomfortable about him. It sounds – please correct me if I’m wrong – that you do not find his spirituality, or his spiritual approach, sincere.
Second, that you do not think he has leadership qualities?
Do keep in mind that he was elevated to Cardinal, and before that had a very fine reputation as an Archbishop, in terms of pastoral qualities (shepherding). In order to have such appointments, though, one must demonstrate an ability to lead, and in a way that works for ecclesiastical leadership, not just genreal leadership.
Can you give me an example of any Pope whose leadership qualities or style you did like?
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Fairwinds
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these forums get trolled a lot.
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