Why do Catholics make such a big deal about confidence and self esteem

[WildCatholic]

Okay sorry for the rant but I don’t know why Catholics make such a big deal about confidence and self esteem. Last year I was a VBS teacher who worked with other young adults and one of the things we had to do was when we said something negative about ourselves we had to say 3 nice things about ourselves. Well not only did I find it hard but I hated it. I feel like it doesn’t matter what I think of myself but of what others (including God) think of me. To me that’s life. It doesn’t matter what one thinks of themselves at all. For example say I wanted to date a woman and really liked her but she didn’t like me. In that case it doesn’t matter if I feel i’d be a good match. It was her opinion that trumps mine. Also to me confidence means being some overconfident jerk. To me when I hear about confidence I think about the stupid douches I knew in high school who slept around and drank and were ****** people. Why is confidence so important in this life? I just sometimes want to follow God and not care about anything else. What does it matter what i think of myself? God is all that matters.

 

[Blue_Rose]

There is a healthy confidence. Confidence does not mean being arrogant or being full of pride.
As Catholics we are to be humble, so thinking of ourselves as unworthy sinners is correct but we should respect ourselves and others because we are creatures of God made in his image.

Let your confidence come from God.
What I mean by that is having humility but accepting that the good things in your character are gifts from God and your confidence to use these come from your faith and trust in God.

 

[EasterJoy]

This is not a “Catholic” thing. This is an educational philosophy.

On a practical level, it depends on what this teacher meant by “negative.” To condemn something you have done that is wrong is no more than an examination of conscience. To say of yourself that you are a sinner, well, that is no more than the truth. There are ways of speaking about anyone negatively, however, that betrays a lack of charity, and that includes yourself.

It does matter whether you act as if you have self-confidence. People do not tend to believe in someone who does not even believe in himself, and the ones that do sometimes have a “rescuer” thing going that is not quite right in a created being. People who do not expect much of themselves also tend to get what they expect. Predatory people also look for victims who do not have a positive sense of themselves, because such people are easier to manipulate. So while over-confidence and pride are a bad thing, a negative view of yourself isn’t good, either.

I would have thought it much better, however, if the teacher had asked you to re-state a negative comment about yourself in a different way. For instance, if you say, “I have a bad temper,” that implies that a bad temper is a permanent part of yourself, something you don’t hope to change. To have you restate that as, “I have not learned to master my temper yet” implies that self-control is a realistic goal for you.

 

[EasterJoy]

I am putting the part in bold that is probably the concern of your teacher, OP, while I put what I believe you are trying to say in italics. I would steer you to C.S. Lewis’ closing point, which I have underlined.

Letter XIV, The Screwtape Letters, C.S. Lewis

MY DEAR WORMWOOD,

The most alarming thing in your last account of the patient is that he is making none of those confident resolutions which marked his original conversion. No more lavish promises of perpetual virtue, I gather; not even the expectation of an endowment of “grace” for life, but only a hope for the daily and hourly pittance to meet the daily and hourly temptation! This is very bad.

I see only one thing to do at the moment. Your patient has become humble; have you drawn his attention to the fact? All virtues are less formidable to us once the man is aware that he has them, but this is specially true of humility. Catch him at the moment when he is really poor in spirit and smuggle into his mind the gratifying reflection, “By jove! I’m being humble”, and almost immediately pride - pride at his own humility - will appear. If he awakes to the danger and tries to smother this new form of pride, make him proud of his attempt - and so on, through as many stages as you please. But don’t try this too long, for fear you awake his sense of humour and proportion, in which case he will merely laugh at you and go to bed.

But there are other profitable ways of fixing his attention on the virtue of Humility. By this virtue, as by all the others, our Enemy wants to turn the man’s attention away from self to Him, and to the man’s neighbours. All the abjection and self-hatred are designed, in the long run, solely for this end; unless they attain this end they do us little harm; and they may even do us good if they keep the man concerned with himself, and, above all, if self-contempt can be made the starting-point for contempt of other selves, and thus for gloom, cynicism, and cruelty.

**You must therefore conceal from the patient the true end of Humility. Let him think of it not as self-forgetfulness but as a certain kind of opinion (namely, a low opinion) of his own talents and character. **Some talents, I gather, he really has. Fix in his mind the idea that humility consists in trying to believe those talents to be less valuable than he believes them to be. No doubt they are in fact less valuable than he believes, but that is not the point. The great thing is to make him value an opinion for some quality other than truth, thus introducing an element of dishonesty and make-believe into the heart of what otherwise threatens to become a virtue. By this method thousands of humans have been brought to think that humility means pretty women trying to believe they are ugly and clever men trying to believe they are fools. And since what they are trying to believe may, in some cases, be manifest nonsense, they cannot succeed in believing it and we have the chance of keeping their minds endlessly revolving on themselves in an effort to achieve the impossible. To anticipate the Enemy’s strategy, we must consider His aims. The Enemy wants to bring the man to a state of mind in which he could design the best cathedral in the world, and know it to be the best, and rejoice in the, fact, without being any more (or less) or otherwise glad at having done it than he would be if it had been done by another. The Enemy wants him, in the end, to be so free from any bias in his own favour that he can rejoice in his own talents as frankly and gratefully as in his neighbour’s talents - or in a sunrise, an elephant, or a waterfall. He wants each man, in the long run, to be able to recognise all creatures (even himself) as glorious and excellent things. He wants to kill their animal self-love as soon as possible; but it is His long-term policy, I fear, to restore to them a new kind of self-love - a charity and gratitude for all selves, including their own; when they have really learned to love their neighbours as themselves, they will be allowed to love themselves as their neighbours. For we must never forget what is the most repellent and inexplicable trait in our Enemy; He really loves the hairless bipeds He has created and always gives back to them with His right hand what He has taken away with His left.

His whole effort, therefore, will be to get the man’s mind off the subject of his own value altogether. He would rather the man thought himself a great architect or a great poet and then forgot about it, than that he should spend much time and pains trying to think himself a bad one. Your efforts to instil either vainglory or false modesty into the patient will therefore be met from the Enemy’s side with the obvious reminder that a man is not usually called upon to have an opinion of his own talents at all, since he can very well go on improving them to the best of his ability without deciding on his own precise niche in the temple of Fame. You must try to exclude this reminder from the patient’s consciousness at all costs. The Enemy will also try to render real in the patient’s mind a doctrine which they all profess but find it difficult to bring home to their feelings - the doctrine that they did not create themselves, that their talents were given them, and that they might as well be proud of the colour of their hair. But always and by all methods the Enemy’s aim will be to get the patient’s mind off such questions, and yours will be to fix it on them. Even of his sins the Enemy does not want him to think too much: once they are repented, the sooner the man turns his attention outward, the better the Enemy is pleased,

Your affectionate uncle

SCREWTAPE

 

[JRKH]

okay sorry for the rant but i don’t know why catholics make such a big deal about confidence and self esteem. Last year i was a vbs teacher who worked with other young adults and one of the things we had to do was when we said something negative about ourselves we had to say 3 nice things about ourselves. Well not only did i find it hard but i hated it. I feel like it doesn’t matter what i think of myself but of what others (including god) think of me. To me that’s life. It doesn’t matter what one thinks of themselves at all. For example say i wanted to date a woman and really liked her but she didn’t like me. In that case it doesn’t matter if i feel i’d be a good match. It was her opinion that trumps mine. Also to me confidence means being some overconfident jerk. To me when i hear about confidence i think about the stupid douches i knew in high school who slept around and drank and were ****** people. Why is confidence so important in this life? I just sometimes want to follow god and not care about anything else. What does it matter what i think of myself? God is all that matters.

EXCELLENT QUESTION

While I don’t think it is particularly a “Catholic” thing…It certainly is something we need to consider.

While I cannot address the specific reason behind the exercise at VBS, for myself, I think in general it traces back to the second great commandment. “You shall Love your neighbor as yourself” (See Mt 22:36-40). How can one love their neighbor properly if one does not love one’s self properly?
This naturally involves a balance between self criticism (examining one’s conscience) and self love - also known as self esteem, or self confidence. Too far one way and you get the kind of people you describe in your post. Too far the other way and you get people who are depressed, suffer from scruples and / or fall into despair.

So - it is a good idea - especially with children and young adults to make a “big deal” out of it…but also to make sure that it is put into proper perspective.

Peace
James

 

[philial]

There’s healthy self-confidence, that allows you to function in life, but recognise personal short-comings in an honest & reflective manner. Then there’s narcissism, the self-absorption of the self above all other considerations, and denial of the sinful self. This is a serious error in the west, and ppoints to a post christian society that celebrates the perverse rather than confront it for what it is.

 

[oldburkes]

This is not a “Catholic” thing. This is an educational philosophy.

On a practical level, it depends on what this teacher meant by “negative.” To condemn something you have done that is wrong is no more than an examination of conscience. To say of yourself that you are a sinner, well, that is no more than the truth. There are ways of speaking about anyone negatively, however, that betrays a lack of charity, and that includes yourself.

It does matter whether you act as if you have self-confidence. People do not tend to believe in someone who does not even believe in himself, and the ones that do sometimes have a “rescuer” thing going that is not quite right in a created being. People who do not expect much of themselves also tend to get what they expect. Predatory people also look for victims who do not have a positive sense of themselves, because such people are easier to manipulate. So while over-confidence and pride are a bad thing, a negative view of yourself isn’t good, either.

I would have thought it much better, however, if the teacher had asked you to re-state a negative comment about yourself in a different way. For instance, if you say, “I have a bad temper,” that implies that a bad temper is a permanent part of yourself, something you don’t hope to change. To have you restate that as, “I have not learned to master my temper yet” implies that self-control is a realistic goal for you.

EasterJoy, that’s a very good way to explain it.
When I returned to the Church after a twenty year abscence, this issue was at the heart of my reconversion. Being fully self-reliant was my whole problem.

I think the key is realize that we should be confident in our abilities as children of God, and not in our abilities that we may think we have brought about on our own, which is what I fell victim to for so long.

My viewpoint was," I can do this". After some major failures, God finally made it clear to me, “When you’re ready, I will show you how to do this”.

 

[Cat]

Those of us who work around children recognize those that have a healthy self-esteem and self-confidence. They are willing to try new things, they are not afraid to make a mistake in front of others, they quickly apologize if they do something wrong or offensive, they are friendly, and they enjoy life.

We also recognize those children who do not have a healthy self-esteem and self-confidence. They will not try anything new, and if they are required to try it, they give up if they don’t get it right the first time. They are afraid to make a mistake in front of others and if they do, they react in ways ranging from expressing disgust with themselves to having a tantrum to melting down in tears. They won’t apologize if they do something wrong or offensive but instead attempt to shift the blame to others. They are not friendly, but wary and suspicious of others who they are convinced are trying to make them “look bad.” And they definitely do NOT enjoy life–they despise themselves and have so many fears about life that they can’t enjoy much of anything other than solitary pursuits that no one else will ever see or share.

Sadly, adults also demonstrate whether they have a healthy self-esteem and self-confidence by exhibiting the same personality traits that children exhibit.

Yes, some parents manage to go overboard on helping their children develop self-esteem and self-confidence and turn it into a silly fad. (“Yay, darling, you woke up this morning and walked down the hall to the kitchen! That’s two stars for you on the Happy Chart, and that earns you a trip to Disneyworld! We are SOOOOOO lucky to have you as our child!”)

But it is a disaster when parents go the opposite direction and refuse to attempt to instill self-confidence into their children, insisting that “we should just leave the children alone and they’ll turn out just fine and dandy like me.”.

The best way for parents to build up their child’s self-confidence is to let them do things, and let them fail at those things, and then let them try again until they succeed.

Dr. James Dobson recommends that ALL children should have something that they excel in. It can be a sport(s), an art(s), a hobby, a skill, a trade…anything. Dr. Dobson mentions “raising rabbits for fun and profit!” Why not?!

Parents need to work on following the child’s natural “bent,” and discovering what that “something” is.

Sadly, many parents try to make a child fit into the parents’ natural bent instead of the child’s natural bent. An athletic parent might try to force a studious child to excel in a sport, while a studious parent might to try to force an athletic child to avoid sports and spend more time with books. A musical parent might try to force a tone-deaf child to sing or play an instrument, while a mechanical parent might try to force their musical child to learn to repair and race cars.

This “mismatch” parenting can do terrible harm to a child’s self-esteem, as he/she will fail over and over again, and only achieve minimal success in the mis-matched “bent.”

To me, this is the most fascinating and fun part of parenting–helping a child to discover their natural “bent” and then making it possible for them to be involved in activities that encourage the development of whatever skills match that bent.

BTW, I do believe that ALL children CAN and SHOULD learn to sing correctly, and since most schools provide an abysmal music education, the parents should seek a private choir or teacher to instill this useful skill in their children. But I don’t think that all children are “bent” towards becoming musicians, and I see no point in a child spending hours practicing an instrument or singing in a choir (and parents wasting their money) when it’s clearly not the child’s natural bent. Although music teachers are generally pretty desperate for income, if you press them, they will be honest with parents who are having a hard time deciding whether their child should continue with lessons or pack it in and head for the football field or the rabbit hutches.

 

[CaptFun]

Loved the reference to … and posting of the excerpt from the Screwtape Letters!

As to the OPs proposition, my thoughts run in a similar vein. I immediately thought of the parable of the Publican and the Pharisee. Where it is the humble Publican (tax collector) whose prayers please God and has his sins forgiven - while the proud Pharisee (clergyman) uses his prayer time to thank God … for making him better than everyone else!

A bit TOO much self-esteem, and/or lack of self examination on the part of the latter.

To be fair though, I have been in young adult ministries where a culture of cynicism and negativity is confronted by a “no crabgrass” rule. Among the young (but not JUST among the young) negativity for its own sake passes for “intelligence” or “dealing with reality”. Ditto for that “bluntness” which can be an excuse for a lack of charity without compunction.

Referencing the part of the Screwtape Letters above where the demon summarizes God’s plan as having the “hairless bipeds” be more humble and love their neighbors FIRST … so that they can THEN proceed on to self-love as WELL … I think that is a good
summary of how and when to have confidence and self-esteem without lapsing into destructive pride or self-worship. :twocents:

 

[WildCatholic]

Those of us who work around children recognize those that have a healthy self-esteem and self-confidence. They are willing to try new things, they are not afraid to make a mistake in front of others, they quickly apologize if they do something wrong or offensive, they are friendly, and they enjoy life.

We also recognize those children who do not have a healthy self-esteem and self-confidence. They will not try anything new, and if they are required to try it, they give up if they don’t get it right the first time. They are afraid to make a mistake in front of others and if they do, they react in ways ranging from expressing disgust with themselves to having a tantrum to melting down in tears. They won’t apologize if they do something wrong or offensive but instead attempt to shift the blame to others. They are not friendly, but wary and suspicious of others who they are convinced are trying to make them “look bad.” And they definitely do NOT enjoy life–they despise themselves and have so many fears about life that they can’t enjoy much of anything other than solitary pursuits that no one else will ever see or share.

Sadly, adults also demonstrate whether they have a healthy self-esteem and self-confidence by exhibiting the same personality traits that children exhibit.

Sadly this sounds a lot like me. Now don’t go thinking i had abusive parents or anything like that I had wonderful parents, but being married at a later age, I sometimes wonder if they really knew how to parent, especially when it came to things like this. For example, I won a spelling bee for my county (not a very big county though ) and my parents were proud. Of course at the time I was taking medication for ADHD and since I visited a shrink, my mom stated that while she was proud, she thought that maybe it was the medicine that made me better at spelling since one of the signs that I supposedly had ADHD was that I could spell well but only managed a B+ in spelling classes (My mom is a veritable dunce when it comes to mental disorders. For years she thought tourettes meant that kids couldn’t control what they said and would say cuss words at her and when we’d fight she’d say that us kids had it since she felt that maybe we couldn’t control it, to name an example).
There were other things too like one day in second grade I had a bad day and said no one loves me. So the nun who taught the class made everyone give me a hug to show people loved me. To me it felt forced. Ever since then i’ve struggled with compliments. It feels like a lot of times people just say nice things to me just to feel better about themselves even though they really don’t like me. I know people in hs who were the more popular kids did this to me. Anyway it just seems contrived when people just give out compliments, especially when its trivial stuff. What I want are real compliments that actually matter to me. Of course Im in a vicious cycle because i feel like its other people’s opinions that matter and see many people who are loved by others but don’t love themselves. But this sounds so much like me. Its almost a family curse. I hate making mistakes because i’m worried that people will think i’m weirder than i already am and won’t like me but then of course I don’t know how to get people to like me.

Wow i’m typing too much please tell me if its too much. I just go on a tear and can’t stop

 

[Cat]

Sadly this sounds a lot like me. Now don’t go thinking i had abusive parents or anything like that I had wonderful parents, but being married at a later age, I sometimes wonder if they really knew how to parent, especially when it came to things like this. For example, I won a spelling bee for my county (not a very big county though ) and my parents were proud. Of course at the time I was taking medication for ADHD and since I visited a shrink, my mom stated that while she was proud, she thought that maybe it was the medicine that made me better at spelling since one of the signs that I supposedly had ADHD was that I could spell well but only managed a B+ in spelling classes (My mom is a veritable dunce when it comes to mental disorders. For years she thought tourettes meant that kids couldn’t control what they said and would say cuss words at her and when we’d fight she’d say that us kids had it since she felt that maybe we couldn’t control it, to name an example).
There were other things too like one day in second grade I had a bad day and said no one loves me. So the nun who taught the class made everyone give me a hug to show people loved me. To me it felt forced. Ever since then i’ve struggled with compliments. It feels like a lot of times people just say nice things to me just to feel better about themselves even though they really don’t like me. I know people in hs who were the more popular kids did this to me. Anyway it just seems contrived when people just give out compliments, especially when its trivial stuff. What I want are real compliments that actually matter to me. Of course Im in a vicious cycle because i feel like its other people’s opinions that matter and see many people who are loved by others but don’t love themselves. But this sounds so much like me. Its almost a family curse. I hate making mistakes because i’m worried that people will think i’m weirder than i already am and won’t like me but then of course I don’t know how to get people to like me.

Wow i’m typing too much please tell me if its too much. I just go on a tear and can’t stop

I don’t think you’re typing “too much.” I’m guessing that others will read your post and be helped by it because they will see themselves and realize that they are not alone. These people may never post here on CAF, but they’re reading your post.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

Confidence should be a big deal for Catholics because, according to St Thomas Aquinas, without confidence we would not have courage, also known as the virtue of fortitude.

[T]he act of fortitude is twofold, aggression and endurance. Now two things are required for the act of aggression. The first regards preparation of the mind, and consists in one’s having a mind ready for aggression. On this respect Tully mentions “confidence,” of which he says that “with this the mind is much assured and firmly hopeful in great and honorable undertakings.”
newadvent.org/summa/3128.htm#article1

However, I have to agree with you, WildCatholic, that how you and your colleagues were told to find confidence was stupid. You had to say three nice things to say about yourselves for every negative thing you think of yourselves? I mean really, can “nice” things help you to gain fortitude?

According to St Thomas Aquinas, true confidence, and thus true courage, starts from humility. What is humility?

Humility…regards chiefly the subjection of man to God, for Whose sake he humbles himself by subjecting himself to others.
newadvent.org/summa/3161.htm#article1

But how does this translate to confidence, if we are to humble ourselves to God and others? Part of the answer is in what St Thomas said here:

It is contrary to humility to aim at greater things through confiding in one’s own powers: but to aim at greater things through confidence in God’s help, is not contrary to humility; especially since the more one subjects oneself to God, the more is one exalted in God’s sight. Hence Augustine says: “It is one thing to raise oneself to God, and another to raise oneself up against God. He that abases himself before Him, him He raiseth up; he that raises himself up against Him, him He casteth down.”
newadvent.org/summa/3161.htm#article2

So we gain confidence from having confidence in God. Nothing controversial or hard here, right? But then we get to this part:

We may consider two things in man, namely that which is God’s, and that which is man’s. Whatever pertains to defect is man’s: but whatever pertains to man’s welfare and perfection is God’s, according to the saying of Hosea 13:9, “Destruction is thy own, O Israel; thy help is only in Me.” Now humility, as stated above, properly regards the reverence whereby man is subject to God. Wherefore every man, in respect of that which is his own, ought to subject himself to every neighbor, in respect of that which the latter has of God’s: but humility does not require a man to subject what he has of God’s to that which may seem to be God’s in another. For those who have a share of God’s gifts know that they have them, according to 1 Corinthians 2:12: “That we may know the things that are given us from God.” Wherefore without prejudice to humility they may set the gifts they have received from God above those that others appear to have received from Him; thus the Apostle says (Ephesians 3:5): “(The mystery of Christ) was not known to the sons of men as it is now revealed to His holy apostles.” On like manner. humility does not require a man to subject that which he has of his own to that which his neighbor has of man’s: otherwise each one would have to esteem himself a greater sinner than anyone else: whereas the Apostle says without prejudice to humility (Galatians 2:15): “We by nature are Jews, and not of the Gentiles, sinners.” Nevertheless a man may esteem his neighbor to have some good which he lacks himself, or himself to have some evil which another has not: by reason of which, he may subject himself to him with humility.
newadvent.org/summa/3161.htm#article3

That is a long passage, but here is what it means: Humility only requires Christians to bow down to God alone. THIS is the main source of true confidence: the mere fact that one is a Christian IS the source of the Christian’s confidence.

I bow down to authorities and other people because God placed them there above me, but I do not bow down to their rules nor their stupidities if they are obviously unjust and wrong.

I bow down to God and even thank them for the disasters, inconveniences, sicknesses, temptations that I receive, as well as for whatever I lack in life, but I never bow down to what God allowed me to be afflicted with; I fight them with everything I got, and, being Christian, that “everything” includes God.

I bow down to God and rejoice in Him for the good things, my body, my skills, my powers, the possessions He gives me, but I never bow down to these gifts, for they are my servants and slaves.

Humility is all about being human (humility comes from the Latin word humus, meaning dirt, from which the word human also comes). And being human means being called to share the office of Christ of being king, priest, and prophet.

 

[WildCatholic]

+JMJ+

However, I have to agree with you, WildCatholic, that how you and your colleagues were told to find confidence was stupid. You had to say three nice things to say about yourselves for every negative thing you think of yourselves? I mean really, can “nice” things help you to gain fortitude?

Thank you. I thought it was stupid too. Maybe it comes from the fact that I was 24 and the oldest on my team and compared to the others my spiritual and life journey was a little rougher and more of a struggle than it was for them as far as i could tell (not that it means i’m better or worse than them it’s just some people are given an easier time spiritually and in life) I especially didn’t like how the young women who i taught with hated me for not saying 3 nice things about myself (part of it is that I wish they could have said nice things about me and part of it is i hate talking about myself and tooting my own horn. I guess I let my actions speak for myself because words are meaningless to me in a sense).

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

Thank you. I thought it was stupid too. Maybe it comes from the fact that I was 24 and the oldest on my team and compared to the others my spiritual and life journey was a little rougher and more of a struggle than it was for them as far as i could tell (not that it means i’m better or worse than them it’s just some people are given an easier time spiritually and in life) I especially didn’t like how the young women who i taught with hated me for not saying 3 nice things about myself (part of it is that I wish they could have said nice things about me and part of it is i hate talking about myself and tooting my own horn. I guess I let my actions speak for myself because words are meaningless to me in a sense).

LOL, if I was there I’d probably be thinking and acting the same way. I have an allergy to the word “nice”: it comes from the Latin word nescire meaning “to not know; being stupid”; heck even in the Middle Ages “nice” in English means “stupid” (google.com/search?q=nice+definition).

Now if they told me to think of good things about myself than I’d be more receptive to the exercise. Three good things about myself: (1) I’m alive, (2) I’m there, (3) I’m with my colleagues.

 

[WildCatholic]

+JMJ+

LOL, if I was there I’d probably be thinking and acting the same way. I have an allergy to the word “nice”: it comes from the Latin word nescire meaning “to not know; being stupid”; heck even in the Middle Ages “nice” in English means “stupid” (google.com/search?q=nice+definition).

Now if they told me to think of good things about myself than I’d be more receptive to the exercise. Three good things about myself: (1) I’m alive, (2) I’m there, (3) I’m with my colleagues.

Well I think they meant good, but even that didn’t mesh with my mind. I would have rather heard what people thought was nice about me and if there was anything at all so then at least i could know if they would be friends with me or not. Wow i sound like a narcissist

 

[Xantippe]

Thank you. I thought it was stupid too. Maybe it comes from the fact that I was 24 and the oldest on my team and compared to the others my spiritual and life journey was a little rougher and more of a struggle than it was for them as far as i could tell (not that it means i’m better or worse than them it’s just some people are given an easier time spiritually and in life) I especially didn’t like how the young women who i taught with hated me for not saying 3 nice things about myself (part of it is that I wish they could have said nice things about me and part of it is i hate talking about myself and tooting my own horn. I guess I let my actions speak for myself because words are meaningless to me in a sense).

There’s a not unreasonable belief that anybody who beats up on himself nonstop is going to do the same thing to others as well, so it very naturally provokes wariness in the listener. And if you were working with kids that verbal habit would 1) be a bad example to children with temptations in the same direction and 2) would make it harder for you to exercise leadership in the group in general.

(Also bear in mind that the VBS leadership girls, if they were substantially younger than your 24 years, are YOUNG and quite possibly rather immature.)

Looking beyond the VBS setting, being verbally negative about yourself is going to cripple you in dating. If you are not able to sell yourself as being a good guy who is worthy of respect and trust, why should anybody else believe that you are a good guy and that it’s a good risk to tie her own welfare and that of her future children to such a wobbly support?

Definitely work with a therapist on your confidence.

 

[white_sheep]

It seems opposed to Catholicism.

 

[Xantippe]

Sadly this sounds a lot like me. Now don’t go thinking i had abusive parents or anything like that I had wonderful parents, but being married at a later age, I sometimes wonder if they really knew how to parent, especially when it came to things like this. For example, I won a spelling bee for my county (not a very big county though ) and my parents were proud. Of course at the time I was taking medication for ADHD and since I visited a shrink, my mom stated that while she was proud, she thought that maybe it was the medicine that made me better at spelling since one of the signs that I supposedly had ADHD was that I could spell well but only managed a B+ in spelling classes (My mom is a veritable dunce when it comes to mental disorders. For years she thought tourettes meant that kids couldn’t control what they said and would say cuss words at her and when we’d fight she’d say that us kids had it since she felt that maybe we couldn’t control it, to name an example).
There were other things too like one day in second grade I had a bad day and said no one loves me. So the nun who taught the class made everyone give me a hug to show people loved me. To me it felt forced. Ever since then i’ve struggled with compliments. It feels like a lot of times people just say nice things to me just to feel better about themselves even though they really don’t like me. I know people in hs who were the more popular kids did this to me. Anyway it just seems contrived when people just give out compliments, especially when its trivial stuff. What I want are real compliments that actually matter to me. Of course Im in a vicious cycle because i feel like its other people’s opinions that matter and see many people who are loved by others but don’t love themselves. But this sounds so much like me. Its almost a family curse. I hate making mistakes because i’m worried that people will think i’m weirder than i already am and won’t like me but then of course I don’t know how to get people to like me.

Wow i’m typing too much please tell me if its too much. I just go on a tear and can’t stop

It sounds like you’ve talked yourself into a no-win position. When people don’t say nice things to you, then that’s what they really mean, and when people do say nice things to you, they don’t really mean it.

Ask yourself, if they sincerely meant the nice thing, wouldn’t it sound very similar to what they actually said? How about making an effort to take compliments at face value and using the compliments as data to help figure out what your gifts are and which direction to go in developing them? If five different people tell you on different occasions that you have a lovely singing voice, that means that you have a beautiful voice. And so forth.

There’s something I’ve heard of called “impostor syndrome” which sounds very similar to what you’re talking about.

“The impostor syndrome (also spelled imposter syndrome), sometimes called impostor phenomenon or fraud syndrome, is a psychological phenomenon in which people are unable to internalize their accomplishments. Despite external evidence of their competence, those with the syndrome remain convinced that they are frauds and do not deserve the success they have achieved. Proof of success is dismissed as luck, timing, or as a result of deceiving others into thinking they are more intelligent and competent than they believe themselves to be.”

“Psychological research done in the early 1980s estimated that two out of five successful people consider themselves frauds and other studies have found that 70 percent of all people feel like impostors at one time or another.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome

I remember having impostor syndrome feelings as a younger person. It has resolved with the passage of time.

Maybe talk to a therapist about your feelings?

If you’re going to work with children and especially special needs children, you need to get your head screwed on straight before you start working full-time.

Best wishes!

 

[WildCatholic]

It sounds like you’ve talked yourself into a no-win position. When people don’t say nice things to you, then that’s what they really mean, and when people do say nice things to you, they don’t really mean it.

Ask yourself, if they sincerely meant the nice thing, wouldn’t it sound very similar to what they actually said? How about making an effort to take compliments at face value and using the compliments as data to help figure out what your gifts are and which direction to go in developing them? If five different people tell you on different occasions that you have a lovely singing voice, that means that you have a beautiful voice. And so forth.

There’s something I’ve heard of called “impostor syndrome” which sounds very similar to what you’re talking about.

“The impostor syndrome (also spelled imposter syndrome), sometimes called impostor phenomenon or fraud syndrome, is a psychological phenomenon in which people are unable to internalize their accomplishments. Despite external evidence of their competence, those with the syndrome remain convinced that they are frauds and do not deserve the success they have achieved. Proof of success is dismissed as luck, timing, or as a result of deceiving others into thinking they are more intelligent and competent than they believe themselves to be.”

“Psychological research done in the early 1980s estimated that two out of five successful people consider themselves frauds and other studies have found that 70 percent of all people feel like impostors at one time or another.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome

I remember having impostor syndrome feelings as a younger person. It has resolved with the passage of time.

Maybe talk to a therapist about your feelings?

If you’re going to work with children and especially special needs children, you need to get your head screwed on straight before you start working full-time.

Best wishes!

Sadly this makes me worried i’m screwed up now. I get what you mean though. I don’t see myself as a fraud though. Its more that I feel like the stuff i’m good at doesn’t matter or isn’t that big of a deal. For example I am an intelligent man but I feel that intelligence doesn’t mean much. Honestly unless you are intellectually disabled you can have average or even lower than average intelligence and make it through life just fine.

This especially affects me in regards to women. I feel like sometimes it doesn’t matter how smart or holy or moral of a person i am since i have a weird personality below average looks and probably am mentally ill based on what people say here. Like I said last year it especially hit me because i had a huge crush on one of my fellow teachers but felt I couldn’t do anything about it because she was out of my league since she was a super smart super attractive super devout woman who was just amazing and I was just ole negative me. Turns out i found out from someone else that she found it hard to work for me. I feel like now i shouldn’t have even had those feelings since she didn’t like me in the first place. Whats tough is though that i’d still love to be with her but don’t want to be some creepy stalker guy.

 

[EasterJoy]

There’s a not unreasonable belief that anybody who beats up on himself nonstop is going to do the same thing to others as well, so it very naturally provokes wariness in the listener. …

More to the point, if you put yourself down, it is uncomfortable for others. What are they supposed to do with that? Argue with you, which makes your self-put-down a weird way of fishing for a compliment? Agree with you, and so be made complicit in your self-attack? Just let it go by, trying to hide their discomfort, as if they were listening to a married couple arguing with each other?

The teacher’s requirement that you say three nice things for every bad thing may have just been his or her way of saying, “I do not like being put in the position of having to listen to you put yourself down. Please spare the rest of us, and save it for your private reflections.” It is no more unreasonable that expecting that you will not load yourself with compliments in front of everyone else.