Why do Catholics pray through Mary & Saints?

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God bless you, you just keep rambing on.so you do not believe what the Bible has to say about these the verse YOU believe, did you see the one talking about intercessory pray,do you not believe what Paul said about pray and asking people in heaven to pray for us BTW are you saying dead people in heaven can not heard our prayers and we do not pray to Mart or the saints we pray thun Her
PS; Why was Our Lord talking to dead people :Jesus himself spoke with both Moses and Elijah even though Moses was dead and buried for over a thousand years and Elijah was taken up into heaven (for you “Left Behind” fans: he was “raptured”) nearly a thousand years before Jesus was born. Jesus is our very example of Christian living and here we have Jesus talking with a so-called “dead saint” while we read in the Scriptures:
Now please read JN 11-25 Have a great day and may Our Lord bless you.
 
People pray to Mary and other saints out of a misunderstnding of what the Bible teaches. There is only one way to pray and there is only one person through whom we are to pray to God the Father. There is only one advocate, Jesus Christ, to whom we are to pray through.
1 Tim 2:5-6
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimonygiven at the proper time.
NASU

John 14:13-14
13 " Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 ******"If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. ******
NASU

John 16:23
Truly, truly, I say to you, **if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you. **NASU

John 15:16
6 " You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, **so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.**NASU
.

We do not need priests to pray for us because each saved believer is a priest and has direct access to God through Christ. No dead person can pray for us or interceed for us on our behalf. Only the living Christ can interceed for us. We are to pray to God the Father in the name Christ’s name.
All great verses, but you seem to have conveniently ignored a whole lot more in order to make your point. Do any of the following passages convey anything to you? Have a good look - they are pretty clear in refuting your statement that only the living Christ can interceed for us… both those on earth and those in heaven CAN interceed for us.

Matt. 5:44-45 - Jesus tells us to pray for (to mediate on behalf of) those who persecute us. God instructs us to mediate.

Matt. 17:1-3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30-31 – deceased Moses and Elijah appear at the Transfiguration to converse with Jesus in the presence of Peter, James and John (these may be the two “witnesses” John refers to in Rev. 11:3). Nothing in Scripture ever suggests that God abhors or cuts off communication between the living in heaven and the living on earth. To the contrary, God encourages communication within the communion of saints. Moses and Elijah’s appearance on earth also teach us that the saints in heaven have capabilities that far surpass our limitations on earth.

Matt. 26:53 – Jesus says He can call upon the assistance of twelve legions of angels. If Jesus said He could ask for the assistance of angel saints, then so can we, who are called to imitate Jesus in word and in deed. And, in Matt. 22:30, Jesus says we will be “like angels in heaven.” This means human saints (like the angel saints) can be called upon to assist people on earth. God allows and encourages this interaction between his family members.

Matt. 27:52-53 - at Jesus’ passion, many saints were raised and went into the city to appear and presumably interact with the people, just as Jesus did after His resurrection.

Mark 11:24 - Jesus says that whatever we ask in prayer, we will receive it. It is Jesus, and also we through Jesus, who mediate.

John 2:3 - Jesus knew the wine was gone, but invites and responds to Mary’s intercession. God desires our lesser mediation and responds to it because He is a living and loving God.

John 2:5 - Mary intercedes on behalf of those at the wedding feast and tells them to do whatever Jesus tells them. Because Mary is our perfect model of faith, we too intercede on behalf of our brothers and sisters.

Acts 12:7 – an angel strikes Peter on the side and wakes him up, freeing him from prison. The angel responds to Peter’s prayers.

Rom. 15:30 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for him. If we are united together in the one body of Christ, we can help each other.

2 Cor. 1:11 - Paul even suggests that the more prayers and the more people who pray, the merrier! Prayer is even more effective when united with other’s prayers.

2 Cor. 13:7,9 - Paul says the elders pray that the Corinthians may do right and improve. They participate in Christ’s mediation.

Eph. 6:18 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for each other.

Eph. 6:19 - Paul commands that the Ephesians pray for him. If there is only one mediator, why would Paul ask for their prayers?

Phil. 1:19 - Paul acknowledges power of Philippians’ earthly intercession. He will be delivered by their prayers and the Holy Spirit.

Col. 1:3 - Paul says that he and the elders pray for the Colossians. They are subordinate mediators in the body of Christ.

Col. 1:9 - Paul says that he and the elders have not ceased to pray for the Colossians, and that, by interceding, they may gain wisdom.

Col. 4:4 - Paul commands the Colossians to pray for the elders of the Church so that God may open a door for the word. Why doesn’t Paul just leave it up to God? Because subordinate mediation is acceptable and pleasing to God, and brings about change in the world. This is as mysterious as the Incarnation, but it is true.

2 Thess. 1:11 - Paul tells the family of God that he prays for us. We participate in Christ’s mediation because Christ desires this.

2 Thess. 3:1 - Paul asks the Thessalonians to pray for Him, Silvanus and Timothy so that they may be delivered.

1 Tim. 2:1-3 - Paul commands us to pray for all. Paul also states that these prayers are acceptable in the sight of God.

2 Tim. 1:3 – Paul says “I remember you constantly in my prayers.”

Believe it or not there are more examples!!! But I trust I have quoted sufficiently to make the point…

I would offer to pray for you, but in terms of your belief I gather that would be futile, would it?
 
i asked my catholic friends the questions too. and that’s the arguments that i used too that ‘why dont pray to God directly.’

and they replied me the same as here too that ‘why do you invite your friends to pray for you then?’

i still got stuck. i didnt understand why people would ask dead people to pray for them. until a catholic friend told me the concept of time in God is different from us, a human being on earth.

then i understood.

but for myself, i rarely pray to saints or Mary even though i understand. i still prefer to pray to God directly. personal choice. 😃
I think you should definitely pray to Christ, God the Father, or God the Holy Spirit directly (they are all one and all fully God). I think it’s also very important though to ask those in Heaven and here on Earth that are our brothers and sisters to pray for us. Mary and the Apostles and all of Saints made known by the Church are high on the list to ask of their prayers because they were and are some of the ones that were and are closest to Christ Himself, they are also not impeded by the presence of sin or any kind of evil the way those on Earth are. So yes prayer to God directly is very important, getting all of the prayer you can from your brothers and sisters in Christ (on Earth and in Heaven) is also very important too. That’s how I think about it.

~Josh
 
I think you should definitely pray to Christ, God the Father, or God the Holy Spirit directly (they are all one and all fully God). I think it’s also very important though to ask those in Heaven and here on Earth that are our brothers and sisters to pray for us. Mary and the Apostles and all of Saints made known by the Church are high on the list to ask of their prayers because they were and are some of the ones that were and are closest to Christ Himself, they are also not impeded by the presence of sin or any kind of evil the way those on Earth are. So yes prayer to God directly is very important, getting all of the prayer you can from your brothers and sisters in Christ (on Earth and in Heaven) is also very important too. That’s how I think about it.

~Josh
Spot on Josh! I see it the same way.
 
As a non catholic I have to say that I understand* why *you ask the Saints to pray for you, but every time I try it, I feel, weird, for lack of a better word. I am so sure that Jesus and the Father and the Holy spirit are one, and that they love me more than anyone ever could, that I cannot help but talk to them when I need help. I suppose for me it would be like my daughter needing help and going to a family friend that is well trusted, when she knew she could come to her father (daddy, or mommy in this case) for help. Does that make sense at all?
 
People pray to Mary and other saints out of a misunderstnding of what the Bible teaches. There is only one way to pray and there is only one person through whom we are to pray to God the Father. There is only one advocate, Jesus Christ, to whom we are to pray through.
1 Tim 2:5-6
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimonygiven at the proper time.
NASU

John 14:13-14
13 " Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 ******"If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. ******
NASU

John 16:23
Truly, truly, I say to you, **if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you. **NASU

John 15:16
6 " You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, **so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.**NASU
.

We do not need priests to pray for us because each saved believer is a priest and has direct access to God through Christ. No dead person can pray for us or interceed for us on our behalf. Only the living Christ can interceed for us. We are to pray to God the Father in the name Christ’s name.
Well, sir, I believe that you misunderstand the scriptures … We ask no dead person to pray for us … if I ask you to pray for me, are you dead? … Jesus is the Lord of the living … those who have “died” to this life have "risen’ in new life … thay are not “dead” but alive in Christ Jesus …

When I ask you to pray for me or I offer to pray for you … do you not pray in Jesus’ name? I do …

And, yes by virtue of our baptism we are made a Priest, a Prophet and a King … but that does not mean that we have no need for the apostolic priesthood nor that we no linger need to be a part of the One, Hole, Universal [catholic] Church, founded by Christ … Jesus did not found many churches but One … We [the Chruch] are the Bride of Christ … Christ does not rule over a harem … he has only one Bride - and that Chruch was given a leader [Peter] then and has a leader today …

And yes we are pray to God the Father and we are to pray for each other as well …

The Martyrs [Saints] in heaven call out for vindication … Jesus informs them that “their numbers are not yet complete” … sounds like there are people in heaven to me … that they are aware of ‘earthly concerns’ and have recourse to present them to our Lord …

Of course my interpretation of scripture is as equally valid as yours …

You have only your own and any who might concur [at least on a few points ]and roughly 150 years or so for most innovations and 500 for some to appeal to …

Whle I have the constant teaching and guidance of the church, historical/literary testimony of the Christian Community for 2000 years [found in the writings of the early christian fathers, etc] to look to and guide me …

Really read the writings of the early christians … Jurgens has a wondeful three volume edition …

Why do some Christian denominations require baptism before reception of communion [even though it is viewed purely as symbolic]? … That is not written in scripture - anywhere … it is a constant teaching and practice of the Church for all of its 2000 years … and why has that been lost to some dennominations? … I would say it is because they have lost the historicity of the practice and do not know where that practice comes from nor the earliest document where it can be found … HINT: it is in the Didache [the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles] …

As for a lack of charity towrds Non-Catholics … Well I ask you to look at this thread and its initial post …

Pax Christe
 
As a non catholic I have to say that I understand* why *you ask the Saints to pray for you, but every time I try it, I feel, weird, for lack of a better word. I am so sure that Jesus and the Father and the Holy spirit are one, and that they love me more than anyone ever could, that I cannot help but talk to them when I need help. I suppose for me it would be like my daughter needing help and going to a family friend that is well trusted, when she knew she could come to her father (daddy, or mommy in this case) for help. Does that make sense at all?
Yes Allison, it does … but consider these two scenarios …

Your daughter needs help with her homework and she asks her older brother, her dad and you to all help her. Of course you love her and would help her “all by your self” … but you are touched that she also asked her bother, who can offer his assistance [even if he could not answer all of her questions] and with whom she does not always get along with … the brother also is touched and reminded how much he cares and loves his little sister and how he wishes he helped her more often … Your husband is delighted to assist because - well math is his thing - and he has been so busy at work that his daughter had not had the time from him that desired … the love and unity of the family is strenghtened from the request made three ways - a concern shared …

Or this one …

Your teenage daughter discovers she is pregnant. She knows you will be disappointed in her and that her father will be very upset. She wants to discuss it with you but is scared and unsure how to 'bring it up" … her Aunt is loved respected by both you and her dad. She is also very loving and approachable. Your daughter knows you love her. She knows she can bring anything to you, but in this case she wants to bring along another trusted person to assist her in telling you her predicament … unnecessary but wanted … Your sister, when approached by your daughter assures her of your love and tells her, yes I will hold your hand as you tell your parents. I will stand by you and share your emotions because I love your parents and I love you … Again loveand charity abound.
 
“God became man, so that man might become God” - St. Athanasius.

Some Protestants would probably think that is some wierd kind of Asian religious thing, but it’s there in the Christian church tradition. Intercession of angels, saints or holy people (Rachel), divinized beings (Enoch), and praying for the dead, was part of Judaism, too, at least from some time before the Christian era. The Sadducees, the temple priesthood, rejected alot of it but that wasn’t the only form of Judaism.
 
Fortunately, the road to Heaven, does not go through the catholic church! And, speaking of things that are disconcerting, I find that there seems to be a general lack of love towards non catholics(Mark 12:31) And no mention of serving others in His Name(Mark 10:45, Matthew 25:31-46) There seems to be equal bias on both sides, and though we are different, we are all Christians! I’m glad that I don’t get as upset as you guys, when someone disagrees with me:thumbsup:
I am married and I am catholic and my husband not. He says that he beleives that his is the church that is is going to go to heaven and he is the only church of god but I don’t beleive that i believe that god says not to judge and who believes in him follow his commitments. So try to explain this to him but he thinks only one church will go!
How can I explain this to him?
 
I am married and I am catholic and my husband not. He says that he beleives that his is the church that is is going to go to heaven and he is the only church of god but I don’t beleive that i believe that god says not to judge and who believes in him follow his commitments. So try to explain this to him but he thinks only one church will go!
How can I explain this to him?
What is the name of his church ?
 
People pray to Mary and other saints out of a misunderstnding of what the Bible teaches.
No, DL, this not the case. First of all, the Bible does not “teach”. People teach. We preserve this practice because it is part of the faith handed down to us from the Apostles. That faith was whole and entire before a word of the New Testament was ever written. The Christian faith is not a “religion of the book” as many erroneously believe. It is based on the person of Jesus, and His teachings through he Apostles.

It would be more accurate to say that “bible Christians” don’t believe in the communion of saints because they are separated from Apostolic teaching. All they have left, being separated from the Succession of the Apostles, is the book produced by the Catholic Church,the Bible. Although the revelation in it is incomplete, they do the best they can.
There is only one way to pray and there is only one person through whom we are to pray to God the Father.
This is also false, but I will not argue that point, because we all agree that it is the mediation of Jesus that allows us to intercede for one another.
There is only one advocate, Jesus Christ, to whom we are to pray through.
1 Tim 2:5-6
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimonygiven at the proper time.
It is BECAUSE Jesus mediated our redemption that we have the privilege to participate in HIs ministry of reconcling the word to HImself.
John 14:13-14
13 " Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 ******"If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. ******
Do you honestly believe that those who are perfected in Christ ask for anything besides in His name?
John 16:23
Truly, truly, I say to you, **if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you. **
Doesn’t it stand to reason, then, if we ask for the prayers of those who have gone on before us in the faith, He will lavish us with His grace?
John 15:16
6 " You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.
Father, in Jesus name, I ask for the intercession of all those who have gone on to their eternal rest. May their prayers strengthen us who are still running the race that is set before us.Amen.
.
We do not need priests to pray for us because each saved believer is a priest and has direct access to God through Christ.
If Jesus did not think there was a need for priesthood, why do you suppose he made us into priests? Why do you think He appointed ministerial priests? How many other unnecessary things do you think He did?
No dead person can pray for us or interceed for us on our behalf. Only the living Christ can interceed for us. We are to pray to God the Father in the name Christ’s name.
Do you believe that those who have left this world in His friendship are “dead”? Now who is not understanding the Bible?
 
to the OP, 🙂

I usually say that we ask them to pray for us, just like we’d ask our friends on earth. We’re surrounded by the “cloud of witnesses”, as it says in the Bible, they can hear us because we’re all united as one in Christ by the Holy Spirit.
With Mary, we pray to Mary for her intercession, and for her help… it’s God who decides how the requests are answered, all prayers eventually go to Him.

a lot of Protestants I know say that prayer = worship, but we use the word prayer in the “old” sense, meaning that it’s a request. 🙂

God bless.
 
Cazayoux: As for myself, I prefer to have one or more Christians, friends or acquaintances, pray for me! There is strength in numbers, unity, in belief, and power in combined prayer!!! Not really a NEED to pray through Mary or the saints!👍
 
Cazayoux: As for myself, I prefer to have one or more Christians, friends or acquaintances, pray for me! There is strength in numbers, unity, in belief, and power in combined prayer!!! Not really a NEED to pray through Mary or the saints!👍
there are Christians in heaven that can pray for you as well.
… and … they are better at praying than we are.

michel
 
caparisi: There are a number of churches, or religions that put forth a doctrine of exclusivity, which in essence, is saying that if you don’t believe in their tenets, or dogma, that you will not go to Heaven! To me this is sending a terrible message to non-believers. It is also, not the message that Jesus put forth(John 3:16). I believe that anyone who confesses and repents for their sins, and accepts Jesus Christ as their Saviour, asking for forgiveness, will be afforded the opportunity to go to Heaven. I myself can find no Biblical evidence, which suggests that only one church or another will go to Heaven!:confused:👍
 
I believe that anyone who confesses and repents for their sins, and accepts Jesus Christ as their Saviour, asking for forgiveness, will be afforded the opportunity to go to Heaven. I myself can find no Biblical evidence, which suggests that only one church or another will go to Heaven!:confused:👍
I myself can find no Biblical evidence, which suggest that only confessing and repenting for sins, and accepting Jesus Christ as their Saviour, asking for forgiveness, will be afforded the opportunity to go to Heaven.

I just can’t find this ‘formula’ as a complete thing.
There are many other things Jesus says we must DO.

Not only that … but what if you do all of what you state … then do not remain in Christ … will you lose the opportunity to go to Heaven?

btw … the Catholic Church does not believe everyone outside of the Church is going to hell.

michel
 
Actually, Patrick Cox, that many verses, is considered overkill!:eek:No matter how many verses we throw back and forth, it ultimately comes down to personal choice doesn’t it? And I’m sure that , if a non-catholic felt comfortable praying through Mary and the saints, no one would say anything! It’s amatter of what works for the individual:thumbsup:Because we don’t promote or condone praying through Mary and the saints, does not mean; for me , at least that we disdain, intercessory prayer:D I in fact encourage and promote intercessory prayer, when I do street ministry, and community outreaches for Christ(Matthew 9:37-38, Mark 10:45). I do believe in praying for each other as Christians, regardless of affiliation;)Romans 14:1-12,Romans 8:1:thumbsup:
 
church of god
I just got a book yesyerday that was telling me it is the church that Jesus build. Can you tell me who started your church and in what year,Peace to you and have a great day or night
 
caparisi: There are a number of churches, or religions that put forth a doctrine of exclusivity, which in essence, is saying that if you don’t believe in their tenets, or dogma, that you will not go to Heaven! To me this is sending a terrible message to non-believers. It is also, not the message that Jesus put forth(John 3:16). I believe that anyone who confesses and repents for their sins, and accepts Jesus Christ as their Saviour, asking for forgiveness, will be afforded the opportunity to go to Heaven. I myself can find no Biblical evidence, which suggests that only one church or another will go to Heaven!:confused:👍
1beleevr: That is what type of religion that he is in. He has follow their stick rules to even belong to the church. He has to read major books before even becoming a member. He isn’t even allow in the church. The plus side is he is becoming a better man. A better husband and father to my kids. And he is beleiving in god and having more faith in him.
We both beleive in God, We both pray but it hard because we don’t have the same way of looking at things
 
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