Why do Catholics pray through Mary & Saints?

[caparisi]

I just got a book yesyerday that was telling me it is the church that Jesus build. Can you tell me who started your church and in what year,Peace to you and have a great day or night

Herbert Armstrong

 

[caparisi]

1beleevr: That is what type of religion that he is in. He has follow their stick rules to even belong to the church. He has to read major books before even becoming a member. He isn’t even allow in the church. The plus side is he is becoming a better man. A better husband and father to my kids. And he is beleiving in god and having more faith in him.
We both beleive in God, We both pray but it hard because we don’t have the same way of looking at things Like me pray to Mother Mary and saint to pray for us but I pray straight to god or tho jesus. I do What I need to get closer to God and he dose what he has to do to get closer to god.

 

[1beleevr]

cazayoux: Although there may not be a pat answer to the path of salvation, John 3:16, is a good place to start; followed by John 17:3,14:1-3,6:67-68,Acts 28:28, Hebrews 5:9, and countless other verses which confirm the message of hope and salvation! The beautiful thing about God is, that regardless of how big, and how awesome He is, each one of us, can approach Him, through His Son Jesus! He has offered the gift of salvation and eternal life to all!:thumbsup:It comes down to a choice; just like in Deuteronomy 31:19, Moses tells the Israelites,“Today, you must choose between life and death.” Today, that same choice is available to us If we choose Christ, we choose life, if we reject Christ, we choose death

 

[cazayoux]

cazayoux: Although there may not be a pat answer to the path of salvation, John 3:16, is a good place to start; followed by John 17:3,14:1-3,6:67-68,Acts 28:28, Hebrews 5:9, and countless other verses which confirm the message of hope and salvation! The beautiful thing about God is, that regardless of how big, and how awesome He is, each one of us, can approach Him, through His Son Jesus! He has offered the gift of salvation and eternal life to all!:thumbsup:It comes down to a choice; just like in Deuteronomy 31:19, Moses tells the Israelites,“Today, you must choose between life and death.” Today, that same choice is available to us If we choose Christ, we choose life, if we reject Christ, we choose death

AMEN !

This still does not show the formula you mentioned, nor does it say that we are guaranteed.

**Originally Posted by 1beleevr **
I believe that anyone who confesses and repents for their sins, and accepts Jesus Christ as their Saviour, asking for forgiveness, will be afforded the opportunity to go to Heaven. I myself can find no Biblical evidence, which suggests that only one church or another will go to Heaven!

I myself can find no Biblical evidence, which suggest that ***only ***confessing and repenting for sins, and accepting Jesus Christ as their Saviour, asking for forgiveness, will be afforded the opportunity to go to Heaven.

I just can’t find this ‘formula’ as a complete thing.
There are many other things Jesus says we must DO.

Not only that … but what if you do all of what you state … then do not remain in Christ … will you lose the opportunity to go to Heaven?

Help me to see your understanding.

michel

 

[1beleevr]

Good post, cazayoux!:thumbsup:And I agree with your list, and wholeheartedly concur, that, after you are saved, you must do many of the things on your list.It’s funny,but if you read John 3:16 carefully, one could believe that if you believe in Jesus, you will have everlasting life, and not perish! In my scenario, I was using ingredients, so to speak, to lay a framework, or groundwork, for salvation, the basics, so to speak! I believe that you do have to continue to serve, and feed,and all the things on your list to strengthen your walk.We of, course all stumble and fall in our walk, but Christ knows this, and does not throw us out, when wecommit sin! The story of the prodigal son is a perfect example of how God deals with us! Or, the parable of the lost sheep! God bless

 

[jlhargus]

Good post, cazayoux!:thumbsup:And I agree with your list, and wholeheartedly concur, that, after you are saved, you must do many of the things on your list.It’s funny,but if you read John 3:16 carefully, one could believe that if you believe in Jesus, you will have everlasting life, and not perish! In my scenario, I was using ingredients, so to speak, to lay a framework, or groundwork, for salvation, the basics, so to speak! I believe that you do have to continue to serve, and feed,and all the things on your list to strengthen your walk.We of, course all stumble and fall in our walk, but Christ knows this, and does not throw us out, when wecommit sin! The story of the prodigal son is a perfect example of how God deals with us! Or, the parable of the lost sheep! God bless

JL: Christ does cleans us of all unrighteousness. This is done in baptism when we are cleansed of our sins by washing in his blood, as Peter tells us, 1Peter3:21, baptism now saves. We are made righteous by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. We are at that time fit to go into heaven, unfortunately most of us stain our garment after baptism by faults or venial sins, sometimes by deadly or mortal sins, [1Jn5:17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.] The Holy Spirit cannot remain, indwelling, when a deadly sin is committed. The Holy Spirit departs and the soul dies. Only the grace of our Lord can enable that sinner to seek forgivness and lead him home again, as the sheep cannot find his way without our Lord. Venial sins do not cause the lose of the indwelling Holy Spirit, but they do weaken us. We do not need to go to confession for venial sins, although it is good to do so, to work on overcoming faults. Mt12:36 I tell you on the day of judgment men will RENDER ACCOUNT FOR EVERY CARLESS WORD they utter. Hb12:14 14 Strive for peace with all men and for the HOLINESS WITHOUT WHICH no one will SEE THE LORD.

Mortal sins requires repentance and confession, to restore the life of the soul. Our Lord in Jn20:22, breathed on the apostles and said, who’s sins you forgive they are forgiven, who’s sins you retain they are retained. It is that breath that restores spiritual life to a dead soul, cleansing once again by Christ’s blood. Enabling the Holy Spirit to indwell the soul once again. Remember God’s breath gave natural life to Adam’s body, that same breath goes out from the priest to restore spiritual life to the dead soul, in confession. God’s breath gives life. Those are the only two places in scripture where God breaths on man. The scriptures are God breathed and can give life also, all is thru God’s grace.

Had the prodical son stayed in the pig pen instead of returning to the house of his father and asking forgiveness, he would never have seen his father again. He would have died in his sins. As the father told the other son, your brother was dead and now is alive. He was dead in mortal sin, he was made alive by repenting, returning to his father and confessing his mortal sins and being forgiven. He could now live in his father’s house again.

 

[Patrick_Cox]

Actually, Patrick Cox, that many verses, is considered overkill!No matter how many verses we throw back and forth, it ultimately comes down to personal choice doesn’t it? And I’m sure that , if a non-catholic felt comfortable praying through Mary and the saints, no one would say anything! It’s amatter of what works for the individual:thumbsup:Because we don’t promote or condone praying through Mary and the saints, does not mean; for me , at least that we disdain, intercessory prayer I in fact encourage and promote intercessory prayer, when I do street ministry, and community outreaches for Christ(Matthew 9:37-38, Mark 10:45). I do believe in praying for each other as Christians, regardless of affiliationRomans 14:1-12,Romans 8:1:thumbsup:

1beleevr - DLClark’s quote to which I was replying was specifically making the point that there was only one person we could pray through - namely Jesus. So if the large number of quotes I included is considered “overkill”, it is only because there are so many references in the Bible that state otherwise to what DLClark was arguing. So I was really just trying to make the point as fully as possible!

But yes, it does come down to personal choice, in the sense that as Catholics we can pray directly to God ourselves, or we can ask other people, whether alive on earth, or alive in heaven, to pray with us to God.

Keep well

Patrick

 

[cazayoux]

Good post, cazayoux!:thumbsup:And I agree with your list, and wholeheartedly concur, that, after you are saved, you must do many of the things on your list.It’s funny,but if you read John 3:16 carefully, one could believe that if you believe in Jesus, you will have everlasting life, and not perish! In my scenario, I was using ingredients, so to speak, to lay a framework, or groundwork, for salvation, the basics, so to speak! I believe that you do have to continue to serve, and feed,and all the things on your list to strengthen your walk.We of, course all stumble and fall in our walk, but Christ knows this, and does not throw us out, when wecommit sin! The story of the prodigal son is a perfect example of how God deals with us! Or, the parable of the lost sheep! God bless

We can look to the parable of the true vine to see what happens to Christians that do not produce good fruit.
Jesus is the vine … and we, the Christians, are the branches…
You tell me … what happens to these Christians that do not produce good fruit?

michel

 

[guanophore]

As for myself, I prefer to have one or more Christians, friends or acquaintances, pray for me! There is strength in numbers, unity, in belief, and power in combined prayer!!! Not really a NEED to pray through Mary or the saints!

This is how it is for us. Those members of the Body that have gone on to their heavenly reward have even more powerful prayers than anyone can have here, since they are no longer hindered by the flesh. They behold the face of God, and nothing here can hinder their prayers. Their effectual fervent prayers avail much.

There are a number of churches, or religions that put forth a doctrine of exclusivity, which in essence, is saying that if you don't believe in their tenets, or dogma, that you will not go to Heaven!

I know what you mean. I was amazed when I learned that I would not be among the 144,000 to be in heaven according to the Mormon Church.

It is not Catholicism that is “exclusive”, though, it is sin which excludes us.

John 3:16-19
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

The Apostles taught that mankind was separated from relationship with God as a result of the Fall in the Garden. We are born into this world condemned to death, by virtue of the consequence of the sin of Adam.

The issue then becomes, what does it mean to “beleive in Him”? The Catholic Church holds to “all that Jesus began to do and teach, 2 until the day when he was taken up, after he had given commandment through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen.” (Acts 1:1-2)

Modern American Fundamentalism has developed a Readers Digest version of faith. There has been a distillation, and the creation of a formula to get “saved” in this movement that focuses on the absolute minumum one must beleive or do inorder to get one’s eternal ticket punched. This message is deficient in many ways, and is devoid of a great deal of Apostolic Teaching.

to me this is sending a terrible message to non-believers. It is also, not the message that Jesus put forth(John 3:16).

Well, with all due respect, there is a lot more to the message that Jesus put forth than John 3:16. The vast majority of His teaching related to how we are to live on this earth.
He intended for sin to be completely “excluded” from our lives, and taught a manner of living in which this is possible. It is God’s intention that we be free from sin.

I believe that anyone who confesses and repents for their sins, and accepts Jesus Christ as their Saviour, asking for forgiveness, will be afforded the opportunity to go to Heaven. I myself can find no Biblical evidence, which suggests that only one church or another will go to Heaven!

I agree with you that membership on the rolls of a tax exempt institution calling itself a Church does not save anyone. On the other hand,there is only One Church, One Body, so all who are saved are members of it.

No matter how many verses we throw back and forth, it ultimately comes down to personal choice doesn’t it?

Yes, I agree. One can read and decide for themselves what the text means, or one can receive with meekness the Apostolic Teaching from those that have been appointed by God to preserve it.

And I’m sure that , if a non-catholic felt comfortable praying through Mary and the saints, no one would say anything! It’s amatter of what works for the individual:thumbsup:

This statement is a good example of Modern American individualism, which is part of what drives the fundamentalist movement. However, when one looks back over the course of God’s interaction with humankind, it is clear that this is not the perspective that God uses. In history we can see that man proposes, but God disposes. We see that God has specific (exclusionary?) requirements about how He wants things done, and that He has a way of opening up the earth and swallowing those who take the “what works for me” approach.

Because we don’t promote or condone praying through Mary and the saints, does not mean; for me , at least that we disdain, intercessory prayer I in fact encourage and promote intercessory prayer, when I do street ministry, and community outreaches for Christ(Matthew 9:37-38, Mark 10:45). I do believe in praying for each other as Christians, regardless of affiliationRomans 14:1-12,Romans 8:1:thumbsup:

Why do you think those in heaven are less able or willing to pray for us?