Why do Christians so easily submit to atheists?

[dronald]

Acts 5:40 His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.

41 The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name. 42 Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah.

This is our example. This is what Jesus and the Apostles suffered for the cause of Righteousness and Truth. We may be hated, spit upon, flogged, killed and imprisoned for proselytizing in Islamic countries, but we must suffer for our Lord. The Holy Spirit shall prevail and Jesus will come to save us after we are severely oppressed.

 

[devoutchristian]

The barbarity of the Middle Ages is not something Christ would have approved of and it certainly has no scriptural backing in the teachings of Christ.

The middle ages were barbarous? Are you joking? Which medieval country was it that killed over 5000 babies every single day?

 

[expounder]

By that do you mean riots, fatwahs, a return to Medieval forms of ‘justice’? Is that the sort of world you would have us live in? A world where all are forced to submit to religious beliefs? A world where nobody is permitted to question, criticise or ridicule religious beliefs? A world where death sentences are dished out for expressing opinions?

Sorry but what are you talking about it has no basis on what i was talking about and if you have these concerns please make a new thread.

 

[jakasaki]

To hold the position of belief that evolution within species has happened, but that the theory of evolution is not an adequate explanation for mans origin is a perfectly reasonable one to take. However, how many evolutionists and members of the scientific elite really hold this view? As far as I can tell nearly all of them firmly state that we all evolved from a simple, unicellular prokaryotic common ancestor, and that a belief in a Creator is mere fairytale, akin to the easter bunny and tooth fairy.

Now my point here is that Muslims are not letting these scientific overlords dictate what we should believe and push us around, where it seems Christians are too willing to make compromises with them. These atheists and evolutionists are not simply saying ‘We respect your religion, we just disagree’, but they are outright mocking - especially through media and Hollywood --making fun of the beliefs of monotheists. However, they know there is a line to be drawn with Muslims, and there are certain things we just will not stand for, as Salman Rushdie found out.

It seems it has become open season on Christianity in particular recently, and gay marriage, gay adoption, abortion, feminizing of men, etc are all being pushed with impunity on BOTH Muslims and Christians, but like I said there is a line, at least currently, they know not to cross with Muslims because we fight back.

Christ said on the Cross:

… Father, forgive them, for they not know what they are doing…

Apparently Islam is not familiar with this…

 

[jakasaki]

Did Rushdie commit blasphemy or did he not?

So what would the Christians of the middle ages have done with him if Rushdie had attempted to defile their religion in the way he did with Islam?

We are not living in the Middle Ages - this is the 21st century if you haven’t noticed.

 

[Brendan_64]

Sorry but what are you talking about it has no basis on what i was talking about and if you have these concerns please make a new thread.

Did you actually read the OP’s posts. He has talked about the need to riot, and he has spoken in favour of the fatwah put on Salman Rushdie. Since you claim to support his points then presumably that includes his points on rioting and his support for the fatwahs on Salman Rushdie and the guy who drew the Mohammad cartoons?

These points are relevant to this thread because these are points made by the OP whose views you say you support. Or maybe you should read what a particular poster posts before you say that you are “with them” on what they have posted.

 

[expounder]

Did you actually read the OP’s posts. He has talked about the need to riot, and he has spoken in favour of the fatwah put on Salman Rushdie. Since you claim to support his points then presumably that includes his points on rioting and his support for the fatwahs on Salman Rushdie and the guy who drew the Mohammad cartoons?

These points are relevant to this thread because these are points made by the OP whose views you say you support. Or maybe you should read what a particular poster posts before you say that you are “with them” on what they have posted.

No i only read the title and your post :sad_yes:
So i guess by ‘that’ i meant that Christians need to stick up for their faith more, it just means that people will leave the folds of religion and as Christians i thought you lot considered it your duty to guide others towards the path of salvation which is jesus.

 

[KP3243]

Just to make sure the OP realizes there are different types of Christians. Catholics cannot support gay marriage or abortion so any Bishops that are supporting these in the UK are not Catholic they are Protestant. Pope Francis would be obligated to remove a Bishop or Cardinal if they did support gay marriage or abortion and probably excommunicate them from the Church. Catholic Bishops and Cardinals are typically chosen by the Holy Father for higher office because they are the holiest and most faithful to the Church and her teachings.

 

[KP3243]

No i only read the title and your post :sad_yes:
So i guess by ‘that’ i meant that Christians need to stick up for their faith more, it just means that people will leave the folds of religion and as Christians i thought you lot considered it your duty to guide others towards the path of salvation which is jesus.

I am a little confused by this maybe because I am an American Catholic and not a minority religion like Catholics in England are but you can easily find Catholics praying rosaries outside abortion clinics and running pro life websites like Priests for Life and pregnancy centers for crisis pregnancies in the US and ministries like Rachel’s Vineyard. Part of protesting abortion is setting up the alternatives and creating nonviolent change through witness and living the gospel in front of the world and help healing the wounds. The US Catholic Bishops have had a firm stance on gay marriage and are unwavering on it. There are ministries to help support men and women who have homosexual tendencies to live holy and chaste lives. There are even Catholic ministries to help people with porn addiction. You aren’t going to create change in people by yelling at them or by not educating and offering the correct alternative. The Catholic Church is the biggest charity organization in the world.

 

[Brendan_64]

No i only read the title and your post :sad_yes:

Then that is a lesson for you. Before you support what someone posts then perhaps you ought to read his posts first before supporting his views.

So i guess by ‘that’ i meant that Christians need to stick up for their faith more, it just means that people will leave the folds of religion and as Christians i thought you lot considered it your duty to guide others towards the path of salvation which is jesus.

Yes indeed, but rioting in the streets and waging war on those who do not believe as we do is not likely to encourage these people to become Christians will it?

Our’s is a religion of peace, we do not riot or force people to submit to our view, nor do we silence people who disagree with us or condemn us. We do not attack or condemn those who ridicule us. That is not the way of Jesus. That is not our way. The way of Christ is to reach out to humanity with love, compassion and understanding.

 

[guanophore]

By that do you mean riots, fatwahs, a return to Medieval forms of ‘justice’? Is that the sort of world you would have us live in? A world where all are forced to submit to religious beliefs? A world where nobody is permitted to question, criticise or ridicule religious beliefs? A world where death sentences are dished out for expressing opinions?

Sorry but what are you talking about it has no basis on what i was talking about and if you have these concerns please make a new thread.

It may not be what you were talking about, but I think it exactly what the OP is talking about, and is the essence of this thread.

People on every side of religious differences tortured and killed their opposition. Granted, this is inconsistent with Jesus’ teachings, and people were to blame on every side, but we sure don’t need to go backwards to intolerance.

 

[Tom22]

Again I am not saying Muslims, Jews, and Christians should force atheists and unbelievers to convert or die. In Islam we are not supposed to force people to become Muslim, but rather Allah guides those who he wishes. I am saying that the Christians of the middle ages, and of the Crusades certainly wouldn’t tolerate half the stuff modern Christians do with regards to abuse of their religion, so why all of a sudden have Christians become such push overs with an attitude of ‘just let them get on with it, just as long as no violence is involved they can do what they want’.

In my opinion there are just some lines that are unacceptable to cross like Salman Rushdie did, and when it happens I am happy that fellow Muslims are not just rolling over and letting these people slowly deride and eventually eradicate their religion the way Christians are. I fail to see how defending your beliefs, with force if necessary, goes against the teachings of Christ. If someone deeply insults your mother or child for example, do you say ‘Oh that’s fine’ and smile or do you admonish them? Well that’s what we feel about our Prophet.

 

[expounder]

Then that is a lesson for you. Before you support what someone posts then perhaps you ought to read his posts first before supporting his views.

Yes indeed, but rioting in the streets and waging war on those who do not believe as we do is not likely to encourage these people to become Christians will it?

Our’s is a religion of peace, we do not riot or force people to submit to our view, nor do we silence people who disagree with us or condemn us. We do not attack or condemn those who ridicule us. That is not the way of Jesus. That is not our way. The way of Christ is to reach out to humanity with love, compassion and understanding.

When Jesus saw what the Pharisees were doing did he react with compassion and love? no, he condemned the Pharisees even for things as little as praying aloud. you want to follow his example, then do it by following in his footsteps and condemning those who wish to demonise your religion.
Never heard of this: all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing. Said by a Christian.
You’d find all sorts of Christians who we look at in an esteemed fashion knew how to defend their faith, but i’m not seeing much currently…sadly…

 

[Surnaturel]

Again I am not saying Muslims, Jews, and Christians should force atheists and unbelievers to convert or die. In Islam we are not supposed to force people to become Muslim, but rather Allah guides those who he wishes. I am saying that the Christians of the middle ages, and of the Crusades certainly wouldn’t tolerate half the stuff modern Christians do with regards to abuse of their religion, so why all of a sudden have Christians become such push overs with an attitude of ‘just let them get on with it, just as long as no violence is involved they can do what they want’.

In my opinion there are just some lines that are unacceptable to cross like Salman Rushdie did, and when it happens I am happy that fellow Muslims are not just rolling over and letting these people slowly deride and eventually eradicate their religion the way Christians are. I fail to see how defending your beliefs, with force if necessary, goes against the teachings of Christ. If someone deeply insults your mother or child for example, do you say ‘Oh that’s fine’ and smile or do you admonish them? Well that’s what we feel about our Prophet.

If someone insults my child or mother then I would admonish them, but I would not do so with the threat of violence since that is not how Jesus handled the mobs of belligerent and ignorant and blasphemous people.

I have nothing against Christians and Muslims protesting when someone disrespects their faith but riots and violence is unacceptable.

 

[Brendan_64]

When Jesus saw what the Pharisees were doing did he react with compassion and love? no, he condemned the Pharisees even for things as little as praying aloud. you want to follow his example, then do it by following in his footsteps and condemning those who wish to demonise your religion.

Jesus did not incite his followers to riot, never. Even when Christians were persecuted in Rome they stood meekly and accepted their fate.

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth.

Never heard of this: all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing. Said by a Christian.
You’d find all sorts of Christians who we look at in an esteemed fashion knew how to defend their faith, but i’m not seeing much currently…sadly…

As has been said before. What about the evil deeds that have recently been and are currently being carried out in the name of Islam. How much condemnation is there from within Islam against those deeds? Compare that to the condemnation from within Islam when someone writes a few words in a book that you find offensive, or when someone draws a few disrespectful cartoons. Are these acts are more serious than the beheadings and bombings of innocent people?.

 

[guanophore]

Did Rushdie commit blasphemy or did he not?

According to your standards, I have no doubt. And according to your religion, I think that you believe the death penalty is appropriate.

So what would the Christians of the middle ages have done with him if Rushdie had attempted to defile their religion in the way he did with Islam?

They did the same, which was a departure from what Jesus did and taught. Going back to doing things wrong does not solve anything. It is wrong to kill people for what they believe.

I certainly agree that a just dictatorship or oligarchy would be better than an evil democracy, but as I said before private individuals do not have the authority to prevent non-forcible evils such as blasphemy.

Really? Had you considered what life for you would be like (what little of it you might have left) under an Islamic dictator? Do you realize that killing Christians is considered “just” in such a system?

No i only read the title and your post :sad_yes:

Let that be a lesson to you expounder. Next time, before you put your foot in it, try to catch up on the thread.

So i guess by 'that' i meant that Christians need to stick up for their faith more, it just means that people will leave the folds of religion and as Christians i thought you lot considered it your duty to guide others towards the path of salvation which is jesus.

You hit that nail on the head, expounder. Christians do need to stick up for their faith more. You are also right that this is our Christian duty.

 

[KP3243]

Again I am not saying Muslims, Jews, and Christians should force atheists and unbelievers to convert or die. In Islam we are not supposed to force people to become Muslim, but rather Allah guides those who he wishes. I am saying that the Christians of the middle ages, and of the Crusades certainly wouldn’t tolerate half the stuff modern Christians do with regards to abuse of their religion, so why all of a sudden have Christians become such push overs with an attitude of ‘just let them get on with it, just as long as no violence is involved they can do what they want’.

In my opinion there are just some lines that are unacceptable to cross like Salman Rushdie did, and when it happens I am happy that fellow Muslims are not just rolling over and letting these people slowly deride and eventually eradicate their religion the way Christians are. I fail to see how defending your beliefs, with force if necessary, goes against the teachings of Christ. If someone deeply insults your mother or child for example, do you say ‘Oh that’s fine’ and smile or do you admonish them? Well that’s what we feel about our Prophet.

Hold up if Muslims are not supposed force people to become Muslim how the heck do you explain what is going on with the Coptic Christians in Egypt where young Christian women are being taken from their homes and forcibly raped by Muslim men so they give birth to Muslim children and not Christian? And why has Israel seen a 235% increase in their Christian population in the past five years because the native Christian population in the Palestinian area have to flee their homes and why is the Muslim government in Khartoum bombing the black Christians in South Sudan and not letting the UN in to help the people the Muslims are bombing? The black Christians are hiding in caves with no food, clothing and medical supplies and they are getting amputated with no medicine because the bombs have shrapnel I them and the Christians are losing limbs daily?

 

[Tom22]

guanophore, where did you get the idea that under Islam it is permitted to kill Christians?

A lot of people here seem to imply that Christianity is the beacon of tolerance and compassion and Islam is not tolerant at all. What did all those victims of the KKK think of this Christian tolerance and compassion? Or victims of Bush’s war crimes? You see, there are those that foul it up in the name of all religions, but atheists like Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins have virtually declared war on Western Christianity because they have not been made afraid to do so. If you are okay with an entire generation being brought up to think that belief in a Creator is just like belief in the easter bunny and tooth fairy then how can Christians in Europe complain that Muslims are taking over and out breeding them?

 

[expounder]

Jesus did not incite his followers to riot, never. Even when Christians were persecuted in Rome they stood meekly and accepted their fate.

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth.

Then in Rome, Christians never really had the power to fight back.
But then when we fast forward 1000+ years, we find that Christians were actively defending their faith, people were even executed for blasphemy.

As has been said before. What about the evil deeds that have recently been and are currently being carried out in the name of Islam. How much condemnation is there from within Islam against those deeds? Compare that to the condemnation from within Islam when someone writes a few words in a book that you find offensive, or when someone draws a few disrespectful cartoons. Are these acts are more serious than the beheadings and bombings of innocent people?.

First give me examples.
I don’t understand what is wrong with you, is it inferiority complex? Would God look at you with pride, when he saw you just sitting back while you were fully aware that God’s word was being turned on its head, deformed and twisted? IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO SPREAD THE TRUTH and clamp down on lies. You know now that Rushdie’s book is wrong, but only because of the uproar, so it is not likely you’d agree with his ideas if you read it because you know it is against the essence of Islam - mission accomplished.

 

[expounder]

guanophore, where did you get the idea that under Islam it is permitted to kill Christians?

A lot of people here seem to imply that Christianity is the beacon of tolerance and compassion and Islam is not tolerant at all. What did all those victims of the KKK think of this Christian tolerance and compassion? Or victims of Bush’s war crimes? You see, there are those that foul it up in the name of all religions, but atheists like Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins have virtually declared war on Western Christianity because they have not been made afraid to do so. If you are okay with an entire generation being brought up to think that belief in a Creator is just like belief in the easter bunny and tooth fairy then how can Christians in Europe complain that Muslims are taking over and out breeding them?

Wow…you said that guanophone… Our own book, the holy Qur’an permits us to marry Christians and Jews, why would we kill them?