Why do Eastern Christians seem to know your theology so well

[DL82]

I’m always amazed on this board by the depth of theological conversation which some members show, particularly on issues around the Holy Trinity and the Blessed Virgin Mary, being able to explain ancient controversies (and some of you must get fed up of having to explain the filioque over and over).

Why do Eastern Christians (Orthodox and Catholic) seem to know their faith so much better than most Latins? It certainly puts me to shame, my understanding of my Catholic faith is pretty shameful by comparison.

I know many people from the East in America attend Saturday schools to learn about your cultural heritage (Greek school, Ukrainian school, Armenian school, etc.) - is this where all of this good catechesis comes from? Is it just because the Liturgy itself has more theological content? Is it something you felt you had to learn in order to answer the constant confusion of Latin Catholics, Protestants and others who didn’t understand your faith?

However it happened, I’m impressed!

 

[ChadS]

I’m always amazed on this board by the depth of theological conversation which some members show, particularly on issues around the Holy Trinity and the Blessed Virgin Mary, being able to explain ancient controversies (and some of you must get fed up of having to explain the filioque over and over).

Why do Eastern Christians (Orthodox and Catholic) seem to know their faith so much better than most Latins? It certainly puts me to shame, my understanding of my Catholic faith is pretty shameful by comparison.

I know many people from the East in America attend Saturday schools to learn about your cultural heritage (Greek school, Ukrainian school, Armenian school, etc.) - is this where all of this good catechesis comes from? Is it just because the Liturgy itself has more theological content? Is it something you felt you had to learn in order to answer the constant confusion of Latin Catholics, Protestants and others who didn’t understand your faith?

However it happened, I’m impressed!

I think you’re running into a situation where certain posters know quite a bit more than the average person about any number of topics. They can certainly wax eloquentl about this theologian and that theologian on this subject or that subject. That doesn’t mean they are well-versed in everything, nor are they necessarily representative of their own faith groups who probably show just as much knowledge or lack of knowledge as the average Latin.

On these forums it’s all about responding to topics you know about and what you feel comfortable answering. I might participate in a thread about favorite guitarists but I’d fear to tread into a discussion on particle physics.

Another word of warning is just because somebody sounds like they know what they are talking about doesn’t make it always true.

ChadS

 

[puzzleannie]

I grew up and raised my own children in neighborhoods surrounded by Eastern and Orthodox churches of several rites (and also by observant Jews who share the trait I will describe). Almost without exception even though they were fully sacramentally initiated at baptism, they attended church school on Saturday morning or weeknights throughout the school years, and the liturgical cycles were enculturating and catechetical opportunities in the home, the neighborhood and the Church. They were less involved in secular aspects of what are essentially religious holidays (such as Christmas and Easter) and much more attuned to the religious and scriptural roots of those days, and lived the faith, including the hard parts like fasting, in the homes.

The same is true of those observant Jews (synagogues were in walking distance of homes) that children attended Hebrew school until at least high school age, and often had HS youth groups as well, and the religion was lived primarily in the home.

In contrast even though on those areas the majority of Catholic parents sent their kids to parochial schools they were beginning to withdraw them from any formal religious education after the initiation sacraments, and less likely to live out the cultural aspects of the faith in the home. This secularization has many reasons too boring to go into here. This parish attracts families both traditional Mexicans but growing numbers of Anglo and other ethnic groups with strong adherence to traditional Catholic faith and life, and consequently I see much more knowledge of the faith, including scripture, among parents and emphasis placed on their importance for their children. This is not the case in those old Catholic parishes I recall from the first 50 years or so of my life.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

I’m always amazed on this board by the depth of theological conversation which some members show, particularly on issues around the Holy Trinity and the Blessed Virgin Mary, being able to explain ancient controversies (and some of you must get fed up of having to explain the filioque over and over).

Why do Eastern Christians (Orthodox and Catholic) seem to know their faith so much better than most Latins? It certainly puts me to shame, my understanding of my Catholic faith is pretty shameful by comparison.

I know many people from the East in America attend Saturday schools to learn about your cultural heritage (Greek school, Ukrainian school, Armenian school, etc.) - is this where all of this good catechesis comes from? Is it just because the Liturgy itself has more theological content? Is it something you felt you had to learn in order to answer the constant confusion of Latin Catholics, Protestants and others who didn’t understand your faith?

However it happened, I’m impressed!

Thank you for the compliment!

Actually, the credit is all due to the Latin Catholic Church. If it wasn’t for the Latinization, Rome’s calls for a return to our traditions (while it denies us recognition of our patriarchate in the same breath) and the like, we wouldn’t be so eager to learn about our traditions.

And thank you, also, for saying that Eastern Catholic views on the Filioque, the Immaculate Conception and the Papacy constitute “good catechesis!”

I like you!

Alex

 

[Madaglan]

I’m always amazed on this board by the depth of theological conversation which some members show, particularly on issues around the Holy Trinity and the Blessed Virgin Mary, being able to explain ancient controversies (and some of you must get fed up of having to explain the filioque over and over).

Why do Eastern Christians (Orthodox and Catholic) seem to know their faith so much better than most Latins? It certainly puts me to shame, my understanding of my Catholic faith is pretty shameful by comparison.

I know many people from the East in America attend Saturday schools to learn about your cultural heritage (Greek school, Ukrainian school, Armenian school, etc.) - is this where all of this good catechesis comes from? Is it just because the Liturgy itself has more theological content? Is it something you felt you had to learn in order to answer the constant confusion of Latin Catholics, Protestants and others who didn’t understand your faith?

However it happened, I’m impressed!

Firstly, it would be fair to mention that a great number of Eastern Christians, like Latin Christians, do not know their Faith very well. The posters on this site generally are those who have researched (formally or informally) their Faith and seek to learn more.

Many Eastern Christian members of this board are former Latin Christians–Catholic and/or Protestant–and so these members have the double advantage of knowing from experience both traditions. I think too that many cradle Eastern Catholic Christians grew up surrounded by a larger Latin Catholic presence, and so have become familiar with Latin Catholic teaching. For example, if an Eastern Catholic child goes to Catholic schools, that child will learn Latin Catholicism in addition to what one learns from their Sunday school classes. .

I think too (and others may disagree strongly here) that the Byzantine Liturgies of St. Basil and St. John Chrysostom have more theological meat than the standard Novus Ordo Mass. I do not, for example, know of any prayer used in the Latin liturgy that comes close in depth to the anaphora prayer of St. Basil.

 

[Pakesh]

I think too (and others may disagree strongly here) that the Byzantine Liturgies of St. Basil and St. John Chrysostom have more theological meat than the standard Novus Ordo Mass. I do not, for example, know of any prayer used in the Latin liturgy that comes close in depth to the anaphora prayer of St. Basil.

You took the words out of my mouth! I’m a Roman Catholic, and I will be for my life, but I love Eastern Christianity. The few Eastern Liturgies I have been to seem to be more “catechetical” than the current modern Roman Liturgy.

God Bless,
Pakesh

 

[josephdaniel29]

You took the words out of my mouth! I’m a Roman Catholic, and I will be for my life, but I love Eastern Christianity. The few Eastern Liturgies I have been to seem to be more “catechetical” than the current modern Roman Liturgy.

God Bless,
Pakesh

That may have something to do with it. Sometimes I stand there in amazement at the content of some of the stichera during vespers and the troparia/kontakia of the day.

That being said I imagine what the OP is experiencing is more a product of frequent internet posters being more interested in these things. Also in my experience a large percentage of Eastern Christians on these forums tend to be converts from Western traditions of one kind or another. Converts tend to be relatively well schooled in some aspects of theology because they have to learn it, and to them it is all new and very exciting. I think it is the same way with many converts to the Latin Church.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I had the same impression when I first got here. Then when I attended a Catechetical event with my Eastern parish, I was surprised to find out I know more than the people who were there who were life long Eastern Catholics.

Don’t judge real life by what you see on the boards. Its good though that we have many knowledgeable posters here who helps the likes of me learn more. But many in actual life just go about the same way most RCs do. They attend the Liturgies every Sunday and nothing more.

 

[ciero]

I had the same impression when I first got here. Then when I attended a Catechetical event with my Eastern parish, I was surprised to find out I know more than the people who were there who were life long Eastern Catholics.

Don’t judge real life by what you see on the boards. Its good though that we have many knowledgeable posters here who helps the likes of me learn more. But many in actual life just go about the same way most RCs do. They attend the Liturgies every Sunday and nothing more.

I think the point made above about the Byzantine Liturgy having more “theological meat” may have something to do with it.

A few weeks back after Divine Liturgy and the Anathema service for the Sunday of Orthodoxy I overheard a couple of 8 year old boys discussing what modern heresies needed to be anathematized…I couldn’t imagine having that conversation when I was 8…

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Dear Ciero,

You raise an interesting point. In the days of the early Ecumenical Councils, we know that laity were very involved in theology and disputations. Fishermen and other well-oiled individuals were prone to have heated discussions about the title “Theotokos” and such-like. Their theological net value was high.

And the Orthodox Saint John of Suceava (patron of Bukovina where my mom comes from) was actually a layman who worked in business ventures and yet he was also theologically inclined.

As a weekend religion teacher, kids are asked to stay after Divine Liturgy for talks by characters like me. I’m always surprised by the numbers who do stay after Liturgy.

But you still have to make it interesting for them. As I try to do . . .

Have a nice day!

Alex

 

[josephdaniel29]

Dear Ciero,

You raise an interesting point. In the days of the early Ecumenical Councils, we know that laity were very involved in theology and disputations. Fishermen and other well-oiled individuals were prone to have heated discussions about the title “Theotokos” and such-like. Their theological net value was high.

And the Orthodox Saint John of Suceava (patron of Bukovina where my mom comes from) was actually a layman who worked in business ventures and yet he was also theologically inclined.

As a weekend religion teacher, kids are asked to stay after Divine Liturgy for talks by characters like me. I’m always surprised by the numbers who do stay after Liturgy.

But you still have to make it interesting for them. As I try to do . . .

Have a nice day!

Alex

I am also told by a friend who visited relatives in the Middle East (Syria/Lebanon), that the children there have a very level of understanding about the history of their Church and can name the martyrs and tell you their life stories.

 

[Aramis]

To the OP:

• Partly the call from Rome to delatinize.
• Partly the call from both Rome and our Bishops to have lifelong religious education.
• Partly the fact that our liturgy and it’s propers are chock full of heavy doses of theology.
• Partly the fact that the east has a history of being oppressed, which tends to result in hanging on more tightly by those who stayed, and thus keeping the liturgy and propers intact.
• Partly because EC’s tend slightly to be better educated on average. (Almost all the men, and most of the women, have college degrees, many have advanced degrees.)
• Partly because only the bookworms and historians tend to seek out the EC’s from their latin roots. The rest simply do not know about them!
• The highly zealous clergy!

 

[bkovacs]

I’m always amazed on this board by the depth of theological conversation which some members show, particularly on issues around the Holy Trinity and the Blessed Virgin Mary, being able to explain ancient controversies (and some of you must get fed up of having to explain the filioque over and over).

Why do Eastern Christians (Orthodox and Catholic) seem to know their faith so much better than most Latins? It certainly puts me to shame, my understanding of my Catholic faith is pretty shameful by comparison.

I know many people from the East in America attend Saturday schools to learn about your cultural heritage (Greek school, Ukrainian school, Armenian school, etc.) - is this where all of this good catechesis comes from? Is it just because the Liturgy itself has more theological content? Is it something you felt you had to learn in order to answer the constant confusion of Latin Catholics, Protestants and others who didn’t understand your faith?

However it happened, I’m impressed!

That’s because most “mainstream” Roman Rite Catholics don’t know anything other than after Vatican 2. Not trying to be harsh but from what I have experienced.

 

[TheDoors]

I don’t, but I’m a convert. I think that the Eastern Church tends to find that faith is the center of life, instead of just being a part of it. I believe the Icons are a prime example. I have yet to visit an Eastern Catholic family and not see an Icon hanging just after I get in the front door.

 

[slavador]

In the Ukrainian Rite Parish where my family attends, the teaching of the faith to youth is completely done at home. This has worked very well and I am certain that my six children are much better trained than their Catholic school or CCD friends. About 2/3 of our parish attends a very lusty bible/history session every second thursday. We usually use RC sources so everyone is extremely motivated to dissect all the things we are presented and at the end of each session there is a sense that we could together rewrite the lesson with the weasel shortcuts to smooth out rough edges and obvious western European cultural prejudice removed. The attitude that things that seem contrived should be questioned is much more accepted in eastern than western circles…

 

[cosmic_chi]

.

Why do Eastern Christians (Orthodox and Catholic) seem to know their faith so much better than most Latins? It certainly puts me to shame, my understanding of my Catholic faith is pretty shameful by comparison.

I think in the case of Eastern Catholic, they have to know their faith well in a predominate Latin Catholic Country.
my father is a byzantine catholic who grew up in the 60’s and 70’s and went to Latin Catholic school, as the story goes he was beaten black and blue by the priest for not knowing the ‘Hail Mary’ and other latin devotions and prayers. the priest had no knowedge of Eastern Catholic practises and no time for them either…this often leads an Eastern Catholic to ask himself 'why am I different from my other catholic friends" and “why is my catholic church so different from other people’s catholic church” …wheras a latin-rite catholic has no reason to think outside of the “latin” square so to speak.

Plus the example above about the abusive latin-rite priest upon my eastern catholic father shows the necccesarity of being able to defend Eastern Catholic practises to many a Catholic churchman who belives the Latin-rite is all there is to Catholicism.
…in part I would say this is the reason why eastern catholic HAVE to know their faith and theology